But there have been instances of people using descriptions like that that DON'T make sense! Also that example makes sense to you but it won't make sense the vast majority of newer members. Nor of course will the 8P1/2/3 system but at least this way they can learn the system in about 2 minutes instead of trying to suss it all out over a period of time from various threads which all use terms like 'pre-facelift' which don't all mean the same car. Don't forget how confusing things can be when you're new to it. It's like one of those puzzles that you just CANNOT work out, then when someone tells you the answer you see how bloody simple it was. It's not hard to tell the cars apart once you know the differences but some people new to the A3 could be so clueless that they don't even know what a facelift is in the first place. Others may know there are differences but not know the background. This thread hopefully removes ALL ambiguity in one fell swoop. You seem to be the only one who feels that way. I respect your opinion but I just don't think you're looking at the bigger picture.