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3rd gear logs

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by millermk1, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    I am not the only one... there are others.. I'm not special..

    there are it seems plenty of folks who install maps which have been written by folks who either dont know what they're doing and/or using software which does'nt have all the required maps to tune "properly"

    Lots of folks are driving around with maps like this scarily.. I see a pretty high proportion on cars which come here for dynos.
    Often "mobile" tuners who sold a "cheap" map..., but also some "named tuners" who you would'nt ever have thought also!
    #41
  2. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    Update - received a email from jim at star performance first thing this morning saying he was going to look in to it for me and contact his supplier oct tuning as it is not a custom map.

    Happy with quick reply and also that he is looking in to it for me.

    He does feel a bit disappointed that his company is getting slagged off as well but as i replied i am happy with the service and remap i received was just a bit worried incase it was to lean and might cause me problems in the future.
    #42
  3. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    Question I have is was this not checked?
    dyno.... logging.... etc
    #43
  4. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    Im sure there are Bill, but you are one of the only ones as far as I can see that personally takes the time to come on here and actually help people out and to me that says alot about you and your company :)

    I wouldnt personally have said his company was being slagged off at all. Whats happening is that some cars he has "mapped" are not mapped properly and as a specialist tuner he should be 100% confident that any car he is mapping is done properly regardless of whether or not its him that writes the map or not, as that's what you are paying him for !

    If he is cutting corners by not actually checking the maps he is flashing onto peoples cars either by logging the runs on the road or on his dyno then he is opening himself up to some serious criticism and potentially leaving himself open to a hefty claim if someones engine goes pop.

    If it was my company putting their reputation on the line by offering a service such as ECU flashing I would be damn sure that the product I am selling to people is tried and tested and is safe to use before moving forward. I dont know the ins and outs of how a garage becomes an ecu tuning agent offering the likes of REVO remaps etc but I would have hoped that they firstly had some form of proper training and that secondly that they knew how to ensure what they are writing to peoples ECU's is done correctly and safely and that they had some way of checking the vehicle after it was done to ensure the map has not turned the car into a ticking time bomb.

    In my opinion if a specialist tuner is loading maps of this quality onto a car and charging top dolar for it, you would be as welll buying a galletto cable and taking your chances with one of the supplied map files off of the free DVD's you get with it !
    #44
  5. Pedrosousa
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    Pedrosousa Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    I'm tuning my car on my own, I have some knowledge about the stuff, but the ME7 isn't easy, what's it's common to everybody is that AFR must be always checked when you're tuning... Bills work it's the kind of work that I like, he uses the Dyno, and tune the car with the help of the dyno and VCDS logs...

    For some people the dyno it's just to show HP... But in fact is a very important tool to tune...
    I don't do business with remaps and my car runs great, in my opinion if it's someone job that person has to study the functions of the ECU... It's what I do!!

    I have 210 g/s from 6400 - 6840Rpm with timing pull of +- 4, only with Bill's TIP, and I'm risking because the AFR gauge died and it's a narrow band ECU...
    #45
  6. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    very true... I love my dyno.. its a fantastic tool.... not just a power measuring device..
    In a controlled environment, logged to the hilt, very repeatable like road logging anf tuning simply cannot be (I used to do it, and thank god I coughed up the muchos ££ to buy myself a dyno)

    night and day different in what you can delve into and refine when you can load it in a whole manner of ways when mapping. (not just me7 mapping, as I do standalones often also on a host of different cars)

    Dyno's rock.. yea, subject to goodl ole lottery when comparing different ones, but as a tuning tool its irreplaceable for me.

    Even when I did'nt have a dyno, you would road test and log important parameters to confirm its performing as expected.
    #46
  7. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    I know what you mean about road tuning Bill, I mapped both my RX7's and my Mx5 Turbo on the road and its not easy. Its very hard to get repeatable runs and I am in no doubt that if I had access to a dyno I would have been able to map it better and probably get more power as on the road I found myself adding in a little more fuel than required to be on the safe side.

    I would have a bash at mapping the S3 myself too but I am not used to the ecu flashing technique as the previous stuff I have done was all live mapping. But then looking at some of these logs Im thinking I might be as well to have a go myself and just be sure to check the logs each time I make any changes ! lol

    What dyno setup are you using by the way ?
    #47
  8. Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev.
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    Rick @ Unicorn Motor Dev. Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    Yes, it can and should be :)

    Rick
    #48
  9. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]

    I all depends on the software version, some versions will need no changes to fuel maps , some are lambda 1 on all maps even BTS and only richen up during knock and depend on LDRXN to pull load out. Not all 1.8T maps are the same.

    A for timing a lot of the AMK and BAM maps have higher enough load axis and the stock advance tables can be used for 270bhp+ with just corrections on the AIT timing offest. to take in to account of the summer months.
    #49
  10. R-Tech-Nick
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    R-Tech-Nick Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]

    Can be tuned same as me7.5


    But in some me7 narrow band LAMFA is dissabled on stock map, 0.1-0.2% load axis scale, map set to FFs.
    #50
    Pedrosousa likes this.
  11. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    Noob question: how is engine load calculated?

    and in post #13 there are two load channels being shown, one from Block 115 and the other from Block 003 and they are completely different? why?

    when you see ignition timing maps they are plotted against engine load, which measuring block gives engine load?

    Also in post #1 the ignition timing is given as degrees after TDC whereas in post 13 it is degrees before TDC suggesting the ignition timing is massively different?
    #51
  12. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 13, 2012]
    Load isn't calculated it comes from a table, map. Load is specified/desired and the boost is worked out roughly as load+30*10 to create this load.

    Post #13 115 is the actual load figure ie 190 where as 003 is the %. One of the axis of the load map is % so where you see 100% its where 100% load is requested. The other axis is rpm, you will then get different load values per rpm /% . This is all limited by a load limiter map, so even if the requested load is higher than the limited load you will only get the lower value. Hope that makes sense.

    As for the timing I have no idea, I can't believe it's actually atdc as at 25 atdc you'd be firing it down the exhaust! Just wondering if it's either advanced top dead centre or a mistake and meant to read btdc!
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2012
    #52
  13. badger5
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    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk Site Sponsor

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    label error in vcds perhaps
    #53
  14. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    I received a reply today oct-tuning company who have supplied the remaps to Jim have checked them all over and have came back saying the pressure is to high for what it should be for the map. When Jim remapped it the car was getting 1.3 bar. so I have been advised to replace the n75 valve as seems to be a hardware problem and not a map problem.

    I'm going to order a n75e today up and then do some logs again and hopefully that will be the matter sorted.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
    #54
  15. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Before you go ordering a new N75e I would get a second opinion! I don't agree with what the tuner has told you....They seem to imply that too much actual boost is being produced and the n75 isn't doing it's job properly hence why it needs to be changed. I may have it wrong hence why you need a second opinion
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
    #55
  16. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Thats the reply to why you have lean fuel!!??!! your boost looks fine... actual follows request for the most part... its your fuelling that the problem... the request fuel is plain wrong...

    <tuffty/>
    #56
  17. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    The ECU is requesting 1.43 bar and its achieving that fairly well so god knows where the figure of 1.3 bar has come from !

    As others have already said, its your fueling thats not right. Your N75 valve is doing what the ECU is telling it to so if there saying its boosting too high then its still down to the remap not something mechanical.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
    #57
  18. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    :think: as i said i'm not to clued up on all this and i'm worried now as don't want to start buying parts for my car that won't fix my problem. from what i can understand when the car was remapped after i just got it the remap that was put on the car was getting 1.3 bar after jim uploaded the map and then road tested it.

    any help on this guys is great thanks

    reply i got on email -

    James, here is the reply & I have to agree as the car was only making 1.3bar when we tuned it. So there is a hard wear issue hope this helps.
    Jim.

    From: Skaper Daniel / O.CT-Tuning GmbH
    Sent: 14 February 2012 09:35
    To: Jim Curley
    Subject: AW: Remap Fueling




    Hi Jim.

    Markus has checked the link and the written values.

    He told me that the pressure is much to high.

    But that´s not because of our file. The file is verified 100% and already written a lot lot times.


    Markus told me, that best would be to check the car on the dyno, and serach for the problem then.

    It has to be a hardware problem for sure, if really our tuning is on it. Our tuning can not be the reason for it. Definately not.



    The other question is, if really still our tuning is on the car.

    BR

    Daniel
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2012
    #58
  19. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]

    The only way it could have been producing 1.3bar when it was mapped originally with the requested value set at 1.43bar would have been if the actuator was weak or the n75 was knackered and not letting it boost higher.

    You shouldnt be needing to buy anything for the car mate as your N75 is not the problem. The map needs adjusting to either reduce the requested boost level to the 1.3bar mentioned or the fuelling needs to be increased to match the 1.43 bar boost level.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
    #59
  20. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    well i have not changed the n75 or actuator since the remap so they both should not effect it. just need to try and decide what to do now to get it running safely.
    #60
  21. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Oh and from your update with teh response from OCT it sounds like there going to try and play the "thats not our map" card. If they do play that game then I dont know how you could prove otherwise :-(

    Also, how can they be so sure it was only making 1.3 bar when they mapped it ? do they have a log file showing that was the case ? If so it would be interesting to see it.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
    #61
  22. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    You aren't looking at the OP's logs are you? djx11b's logs are further down and the boost request looks better than the OP's... the op's is 2550 all the way...

    djx11b's issue is with fuelling... fuel request is essentially OEM/std fuel request where it should be 0.85 under WOT

    <tuffty/>
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
    #62
  23. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Ahh bugger, yes I was. My mistake, however the statement still does stand as djx11b's requested boost levels are indeed better but there still more than 1.3bar.

    Ill edit my above posts to avoid confusion !
    #63
  24. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    I think there has been some confusion here and they are looking at the wrong logs... the OP's issue is boost request turned to 11 and unknown fuelling request as he hasn't re-posted...

    djx11b's issues are incorrect fuelling request for a mapped engine...

    @djx11b... you can ignore changing the N75 as your boost is fine... rather than linking to the thread, link to your post or better still email them your logs...

    @millermk1... get a log of block 031 along with the same blocks djx11b's then we will have a comparison...

    <tuffty/>
    #64
  25. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Indeed, I think what confuses it further is that these are both cars mapped by the same tuner apparently.
    #65
  26. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    True... and as its requested in the map its not the N75... if actual was different then maybe the N75 'could' be an issue but in my experience it isn't normally the case.

    On djx11b's log, requested boost at 3960 = 2450, actual = 2440... at 4880 = 2440, actual = 2430... that doesn't look like the N75 is having an issue to me and that the map is (as you point out) requesting more than 1.3bar....

    <tuffty/>
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2012
    #66
  27. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    i have emailed my logs directly to Jim and asked him to check they were not looking at the wrong logs as they might have thought it was all the same car. thanks guys
    #67
  28. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Cool beans... lets hope this all comes to a satisfactory conclusion....

    <tuffty/>
    #68
  29. Alex C
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    Alex C Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    i assume the 1.3 bar is gauge pressure and the 2,450 mbar actually being requested is actual pressure?
    #69
  30. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Need to take atmospheric pressure from that so around a bar... MAP sensor reports absolute... 2450 equates to just a tad over 1.4bar in reality

    <tuffty/>
    #70
  31. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Yeh, as tufty has stated, the map sensor is ABSOLUTE pressure and to get GAUGE pressure you deduct atmospheric pressure which is around 1 barG depending upon where in the world you are.
    #71
  32. millermk1
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    millermk1 New Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    Sorry for the delay on the logs chaps, i dont have access to vagcom myself and im waiting for my mate to be available so we can do them, hes busy for valentines tonight but this is far more important in my eyes. It does sound like OCT are trying to back heal the problem onto something else even though the boost looks fine, only time will tell what it is for definate.

    Again thanks for all the input on this.

    MAtt
    #72
  33. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    think there had been a bit of a mix up with my logs and millermk1 logs. so sent over my own logs in a email.

    reply was - [FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Calibri,sans-serif]Yes, fine for the boost but we can fit a 4.0bar reg.

    [/FONT]so recommending i get a 4.0 bar fitted to help out with my fueling. Are these easy to fit or is it a garage job ?
    [/FONT]
    #73
  34. <tuffty/>
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    <tuffty/> Badger 5 Edition Staff Member Moderator

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    FFS!!!

    Its not that the fuel isn't flowing its the map requesting it.... do not fit a 4bar FPR... if the map (as shown in the logs) is requesting 0.95 lambda then the ECU will give it.... its not much simpler than that tbh...

    If the fuel request was 0.85 but the actual was leaner then it could indicate a hardware issue such as a tired fuel pump or something but its requesting 0.95 in the map when it should be 0.85 or so...

    <tuffty/>
    #74
  35. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    I dont understand why hes now trying to sell you a fuel pressure regulator. He should be correcting the fuelling in the remap ! LOL

    Also to expand on that a bit in relation to tufty's post, if you did go ahead and fit an FPR the car will still run lean as your map will still adjust the fuelling to achieve the requested 0.95 lambda value. So although you will force more fuel into the fuel rail mechanically via the FPR the ecu will think the car is overfuelling and reduce the injector duty cycle even more than it already is to keep the lambda value the same as it is just now.
    #75
  36. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    ahhhhh wish i never done my logs now lol (kidding) love the car love the power just need my fueling sorted. if they don't recommend it and it looks fine to them what other options do i have ? ?
    #76
  37. sideways steve
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    sideways steve Member

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    [Feb 14, 2012]
    If it was me I would be going back and demanding they adjust the fuelling on the map. If they refuse, tell them to reflash the stock map and refund your money and then somewhere else.
    #77
  38. djx11b
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    djx11b Member

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    [Feb 15, 2012]
    latest is have been emailing Jim about the issue i asked


    me - ok so there is now way to adjust the fueling on the remap. to solve my the
    issue the best way is to get a 4.0 bar reg fitted and then my logs will not
    show the fuel as being lean ?

    reply - Your fuelling is fine for now but after your mods the file will need
    changed ánd you will also need a 4.0bar reg.
    Jim.

    recommend once i get my manifold, downpipe and sports cat fitted that i'm looking to get done soon that I get new software and a 4.0bar reg
    which will cost me another £275 for a new map and £99 for the 4.0bar reg and this will be ok.

    Am I correct in thinking that a new remap will not changed the fuel issue again as would just adjust the boost and it will not solve the lean fueling ?

    I know i would need the remap tweekd for my new mods but feel that my original map should be fixed first for free as running lean

    And will a new remap with my future mods sort out the lean fuel ?

    james
    #78
  39. A3AH
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    A3AH Member

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    [Feb 15, 2012]
    Tbh if it was me.. I would quote some of these many clever people in this thread in an email telling him you have no hardware issues.

    Everytime hes replied blaming something you should write back your point, with evidence, and quote these guys as evidence..

    If you email the guy like ermm, err, i think my fueling isnt right.. Ofcourse he isnt gonna look into it..

    Email him a report showing it and make sure u get it sorted man.

    Failing that..
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2012
    #79
  40. beachbuggy
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    beachbuggy Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 15, 2012]
    #80

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