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300BHP soon!!!

Discussion in 'TT/TT-S/TT-RS Forum' started by Gworks, Sep 18, 2004.

  1. Gworks
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    Gworks New Member

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    [Sep 18, 2004]
    Hey all. Hopefully by next weekend, my black beauty will be pushin the 300BHP mark. I have just smacked on the Badges under the bonnet until its official and then might have them put above the rear quattro badge. What do u lot think. Do u think I shud also put them above the Quattro Badge? Cheers, Glen.
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  3. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    Gworks, I have looked at one of these at Star Performance who has one on his S3. Says that without remaping the car (again) the car lost 10bhp!! Needs mapped again to take advantage of the extra flow.

    Having seen the APR full 3" system, its out of this world! Just be nice if they would get the bugger to work!
    #2
  4. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:
    I am having added to the car an enlarged 3" downpipe with a single free flow sports cat. This should create (according to past figures shown) between 15-23BHP. Once on, will post pics and feedback results!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ..and how are you going to make up the rest to give 300BHP?

    300 lb-ft maybe...300BHP, on a standard turbo? Nah, I think not...not with any exhaust on.
    We'll wait and see...
    #3
  5. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:
    I am having added to the car an enlarged 3" downpipe with a single free flow sports cat. This should create (according to past figures shown) between 15-23BHP. Once on, will post pics and feedback results!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    ..and how are you going to make up the rest to give 300BHP?

    300 lb-ft maybe...300BHP, on a standard turbo? Nah, I think not...not with any exhaust on.
    We'll wait and see...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The 3" downpipe WILL make a difference... However, with the standard turbo, the difference it will actually make is debatable... Its sure going to sound meaty! Mine certainly does... but as for actual gains we will see. Expect to lose some bottom end torque as a result. Is this along with sports cats and exhaust system? i've also noticed that idling can be a little eratic but this could also be down to the map.

    Rich
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  6. jgrand
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    jgrand Member

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    Bragging agian? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    #5
  7. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    Exactly... The exhaust really is not the limiting factor... The engine is not the limiting factr, even the intake is not the limiting factor... That only leaves us with one thing...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ker-ching. (sound of penny dropping)


    [ QUOTE ]

    Sure, all the bits above will help.. a few bhp here, a few lb.ft there, but nothing drastic! The only way to get proper gains after a chip is to ditch the original turbo. FACT!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bingo!
    As far as I have been able to test, the only way to break 300BHP from a 1.8T, is to change the turbo for a heyuuuge Mo-Fo like rich's...or ditch the standard managememt system and go aftermarket.
    Using the second method and a K04...you might just scrape it! But I have my doubts...
    #6
  8. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    ditch the standard managememt system and go aftermarket.
    Using the second method and a K04...you might just scrape it! But I have my doubts...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But at the price of doing this and getting it setup, you will still have a average turbo thats at its limit where as if you spend a bit more get a bigger turbo thats not at its limit, there is more potential... Ideally you would have both... but thats serious money if you cant map it yourself!

    Rich
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  9. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:

    But at the price of doing this and getting it setup, you will still have a average turbo thats at its limit where as if you spend a bit more get a bigger turbo thats not at its limit, there is more potential... Ideally you would have both... but thats serious money if you cant map it yourself!


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Absolutely...

    You WILL also have stupidly high air inlet temperatures without some fairly trick ICs.

    You WILL also risk shortening the turbo's life into that of weeks, by running it WAY outwith it's efficiency / design range.

    You WILL introduce WAY more heat into the engine bay / engine block.

    Thats even if you get a K04 to break 300BHP in the first place...which I doubt!
    #8
  10. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 21, 2004]
    Glen, nice Sig. Snigger, snigger.

    Yes the exhaust looks nice and shiney (I like shiney things). Yes it probably does sound real good (only heard Stars when stationary). But are you not aswell putting this money (probably over a grand) toward doing the BTC! (Big Turbo Conversion)

    On the subjuct, Glen, you must have farted about with just about everything that is 'fartable' on your car! When are you doing it right? Or are you just gonna bugger it and by a Porsche? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    Stevie
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  11. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 22, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:
    P.S: ScotSTHREE did I miss something or read your last post incorrectly. Wots up with my Sig pic, and shiny exhaust??? Where's that from? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Im not gonna be online since I'm off to Mexico 2moz morn at 6am so will spk to y'all soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    He wasnt having a dig at you mate! or if he was, it was aimed at himself too!

    Rich /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
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  12. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Sep 22, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:
    My car has so far got: APR chip with optimax program, Full Miltek exhaust system, neuspeed p-flow ind kit, hyperboost DV, Boostcontroller, soon to have V-tune on it from APR with poss RACE Fuel program. The 3" downpipe also comes with a Single Free flow Sports cat. When they smack this on, they will re-map the system to make sure it pushes out the most it can without doing any damage to the turbo. Also having the Forge FMIC in 2 months time to add on the front for cool air flow! Has the Samco enlarged pipes for nice air flow. I'm confident that it will push close to the 300BHP mark. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok...I have a similar set up, with an APR Optimax programme done by the now defunct APR Europe - a high boost programme no longer offered...mine makes 1.8 bar peak boost.
    I also have a Forge bespoke FMIC...and an uprated bespoke Forge SMIC, modified / de-restricted turbo hard pipe (the one round the side of the engine), full set of Samco pressure hoses, Samco inlet hose, Re-piped IC hoses, insulating power gasket, modified throttle body, modified airbox, cold / ram air feed, K&N filter, different N75, Milltek cats, Milltek axhaust....and I can't get ANYWHERE near 300BHP.
    With all that, and running 1.89 bar peak, 1.3 bar sustained I can get 275 BHP / 330+ lb-ft.

    Can you explain how you are going to get an additional 26 BHP from a different stype of exhaust?

    I just don't get it...mine is pushing out WAY more than the standard turbo is fit for...it IS damaging the turbo.

    BTW, half the stuff you have listed gives you nothing. I have dyno plots to prove it...



    [ QUOTE ]

    P.S: ScotSTHREE did I miss something or read your last post incorrectly. Wots up with my Sig pic, and shiny exhaust??? Where's that from? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think there is some confusion...
    I'm the also called Glen...it's my signature he's laughing at!
    #11
  13. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 22, 2004]
    No, mate I was refering to Glen (Ess_three). Not yours. Hope it all works for you Glen. You'll be the first S3/TT225 to run nearly 300bhp with the K04 (except the Golf Mk II with stand along management).

    Enjoy Mexico.
    #12
  14. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Oct 11, 2004]
    hi guys,
    Been reading this post with interest,as far as the stock system goes ,my tuner told me he was making more power at 1.3 bar than at 1.5 bar on the standard k04,obviously you're going to create more torque as this is proportional to boost at 1.5+bar.As far as Aftermarket management goes i've also looked into this,the main problem is that the s3 is dbw and only one manufacturer can accomodate this ,motec,but is is v.pricey.The other option is too convert back to throttle cable and switch to a cheaper standalone.The standard bosch me7.X ecu is very advanced(perhaps 2 advanced!!) and is very hard to install a pigyback.As far as ic's go,i'm running the bespoke forge fmic inline with the stock but i have my doubts as to whether it produces a large pressure drop,a chargecooler is by far a better option.Induction kits seem to offer no gain,although i think they may make a difference with a larger turbo.I believe the stock downpipe and cat is a restriction to a larger turbo but on the stock item it doesn't prove to be worth the expense.My 2p.
    #13
  15. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 11, 2004]
    All very good poubts, all of which i would agree with!

    Rich
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  16. Silversea225
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    Silversea225 New Member

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    [Oct 11, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    Don't forget that a similar set up promising 30BHP has already been tried by Star...and as Stevie correctly points out...it lost power.
    This was on the owners car...so there'd be no point in him passing false information now, would there?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is the APR item that GWorks is refering to.
    I also spoke to Jim regarding this and was given the same information that his S3 lost power after it was fitted........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif
    #15
  17. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ryanc said:
    hi guys,
    Been reading this post with interest,as far as the stock system goes ,my tuner told me he was making more power at 1.3 bar than at 1.5 bar on the standard k04,obviously you're going to create more torque as this is proportional to boost at 1.5+bar.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I guess it depends at what part of the curve you are looking at...
    I make more power at 1.3 bar at the upper part of the revs, compared to 1.5 bar at 4000 ish revs, or 1.3 bar as the boost builds from nothing, to maximum, then starts to drop off as the turbo runs out of 'puff'.


    [ QUOTE ]

    As far as ic's go,i'm running the bespoke forge fmic inline with the stock but i have my doubts as to whether it produces a large pressure drop,a chargecooler is by far a better option.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Measure it and see...
    I honestly don't believe that the set up I have (Forge bespoke FMIC + Forge bespoke SMIC + fully re-piped with Samco hoses) is any more restrictive than standard...it can't be as my peak boost went UP after each stage of the conversion!
    Adding FMIC - boost raised slightly
    Adding Samco hoses - boost again raised slightly
    Adding SMIC - boost again raised slightly

    All pressure measurements were taken off the FPR at the TB...so a rise there is an indication of a free flowing IC system - not a restriction.

    As for Chargecoolers:
    Great where space is tight.
    But: 1.8Ts run very hot...and heatsoak.

    Heatsoak an air/air IC and as soon as you hit cold air, the inlet charge temperature is dropped - almost immediately.

    Heatsoak a water/air chargecooler and as soon as you hit cold air the radiator cools - slowly. This in turn slowly removes the heat from the IC, and hence the inlet charge. But this takes time...in some instances, several minutes - cooling water is a very slow control method!

    For this reason alone, if you have the space, I prefer air-air ICs.

    Granted, at idle straight after stopping, the chargecooler will have an advantage over the air/air IC...but overall, I would prefer an air-air IC.


    [ QUOTE ]

    Induction kits seem to offer no gain,although i think they may make a difference with a larger turbo.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I agree..no gain on a standard turbo. Not one I've ever seen proven / been able to replicate anyway.

    The standard airbox is good for 300+ BHP according to reputable tuners...so why change it?
    #16
  18. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    You may have created more boost(and therefore less pressure drop) with your more efficient ic's and pipes but this is still compared to the stock system.I still think doing away with both of the ic's and running one huge fmic or chargecooler would be a better solution.A large fmic would not fit behind a standard bumper so a chargecooler is a better option if you want to keep the "stock" look.By the way this is when you start running in excess of 300hp,the standard ic's will do with the stock turbo imho.I shall report back the pressure drop across the ic's when i've got my gt28rs up and running.
    #17
  19. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    A LARGE FMIC will fit behind the stock bumper...But have you cosidered this:

    uprate the side mount interoolers for all alloy ones, and them ALSO fit a fmic, but a not so large one and run 3 intercoolers... Good cooling whilst keeping the stock bumper! A FMIC on an S3 is a piece of p1ss!

    Rich
    #18
  20. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    hi rich,
    i have the forge fmic inline with the stock drivers side ic ,but for the extra cost of upgrading the side mount or both side mounts i'd rather go for a bespoke chargecooler.Anyway may first concern is getting the gt28rs up and running ,probably with water injection and see how the intake temps react as it is a far more efficient turbo at 1.4+ bar.
    #19
  21. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    DuncS3 said:
    So when you guys say 'bespoke' ICs from Forge, does that indicate they are special made items (ie expensive)?

    Dunc

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Special made...yes.
    Expensive...not that bad.

    Mine was the first ever FMIC fabricated by Forge to a design by Star Performance.

    Jim / Brian had my car for approx 3 months to get the fitment issues sorted out, and at the same time Mitchell, then of APR, was working his magic on a high boost map to suit.

    Whereas the 'normal' Star Performance kit comes with a bare aluminium FMIC and associated pipeworks, I used my contacts at Forge to have mine anodised black with a trial 'high conductivity' coating (thanks Russell!)

    The 'high conduscivity' coating didn't do any good...but it looks stealthy!

    Since then, Star have started using another supplier of FMICs to a similar design...the new design now has longer hardpipes compared the the original design as I have.
    #20
  22. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    what about the side mount glen?
    #21
  23. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ryanc said:
    i believe a few where made by forge(bespoke) a while back but star performance still sells them,


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sure do...
    But as stated above, made by someone else now and easier to fit!


    [ QUOTE ]

    simon elman,glen and myself are running them.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ryan, is your's the earlier Forge type? Easily spoptted - it had Forge motorsport engraved on it!


    [ QUOTE ]

    There not huge but have a large surface area and are alot better than stock.Also gives you some room to feed a duct for the air filter.I think there £650 supply,£800 fitted but that was a while ago so don't quote me on that!!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That sounds about right..
    #22
  24. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ryanc said:
    Hey glen,how much did you uprated smic set you back?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry for the delay Ryan...I was getting to it!
    Can you believe my employer actually wanted me to do some work for my wages? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif


    Anyway...
    I was lucky...Forge had a spare drivers side SMIC in at the time, so they used that as a pattern part, and modified a Golf Mk4 SMIC to take the S3 type end connections.
    I also had mine made with longer connection tubed in order to use the big fat 'Supra Pro' 20-25mm thick high clamping force clamps.
    I also had it anodised black too...

    I think the cost was around £600 all in, but can't exactly remember, I've spent so much on bits thay all blend in now...and it's best not to look back!
    #23
  25. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 12, 2004]
    Out of interest:

    I also re-piped all the pressure hoses with Samco and used the big fat 'Supra Pro' 20-25mm thick high clamping force clamps on everything!
    I had to modify the TB in order to get a 'fat' clamp on there.

    Worth it though...it was no fun blowing an IC hose off and being left stranded up at the Lecht on an a-s.net run!
    That's what running too much boost does for you!!


    I also re-worked the metal turbo pipe that comes off the turbo and runs round the engine towards the first SMIC.
    In the 'fat' bit near the turbo these is a sliencer - which also happens to reduce the diameter of the pipe by 20mm!
    Needless to say, it's gone...I cut the pipe, machined the restrictor / silencer out, polished the pipe up internally and re-welded it up...then had it powder coated black. Good O!

    I can now say there is NO restriction in any of my inlet pipework!
    #24
  26. Gworks
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    Gworks New Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Silversea225 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    Don't forget that a similar set up promising 30BHP has already been tried by Star...and as Stevie correctly points out...it lost power.
    This was on the owners car...so there'd be no point in him passing false information now, would there?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is the APR item that GWorks is refering to.
    I also spoke to Jim regarding this and was given the same information that his S3 lost power after it was fitted........ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    When did Jim have an S3??? Recently he's had a Golf MK3, Audi TTR and now has a SEAT Leon Cupra R which has gained performance since having the downpipe put on!? Are we talking about the same Jim here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    #25
  27. Gworks
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    Gworks New Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:
    My car has so far got: APR chip with optimax program, Full Miltek exhaust system, neuspeed p-flow ind kit, hyperboost DV, Boostcontroller, soon to have V-tune on it from APR with poss RACE Fuel program. The 3" downpipe also comes with a Single Free flow Sports cat. When they smack this on, they will re-map the system to make sure it pushes out the most it can without doing any damage to the turbo. Also having the Forge FMIC in 2 months time to add on the front for cool air flow! Has the Samco enlarged pipes for nice air flow. I'm confident that it will push close to the 300BHP mark. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok...I have a similar set up, with an APR Optimax programme done by the now defunct APR Europe - a high boost programme no longer offered...mine makes 1.8 bar peak boost.
    I also have a Forge bespoke FMIC...and an uprated bespoke Forge SMIC, modified / de-restricted turbo hard pipe (the one round the side of the engine), full set of Samco pressure hoses, Samco inlet hose, Re-piped IC hoses, insulating power gasket, modified throttle body, modified airbox, cold / ram air feed, K&N filter, different N75, Milltek cats, Milltek axhaust....and I can't get ANYWHERE near 300BHP.
    With all that, and running 1.89 bar peak, 1.3 bar sustained I can get 275 BHP / 330+ lb-ft.

    Can you explain how you are going to get an additional 26 BHP from a different stype of exhaust?

    I just don't get it...mine is pushing out WAY more than the standard turbo is fit for...it IS damaging the turbo.

    BTW, half the stuff you have listed gives you nothing. I have dyno plots to prove it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    With all of that work done, I'm surprised to see that your not running higher BHP! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Are you sure that your car wasn't running a low figure be4 you had the work done? I know that some S3's/TT's (210/225) have been known to run a lot lower then the figures given once they have come outta the factory?
    #26
  28. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:

    When did Jim have an S3??? Recently he's had a Golf MK3, Audi TTR and now has a SEAT Leon Cupra R which has gained performance since having the downpipe put on!? Are we talking about the same Jim here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I suspect we are not...

    I am taliking about the Jim of Star Performance - Jim Curley...who actually has his own MAHA rolling road, and being a fundamentally decent bloke, is not afraid to tell you that some 'mystery' physics defying tuning product is actually a crock of [censored], should it prove to be so.

    Jim has tested many of these so calle miracle power making devices...and guess what? No gains.

    I have teasted another lorry load of products that also claim to give 'monster' power gains...and guess what?...no gains.
    All of my testing was also done on Star Performance's rolling road - but with my hiring the dyno, and paying the bills out of my pocket to ensure accurate results!


    I suspect the Jim you are referring to is the same Jim who told some unfortunate soul that APR's standard serial port map makes 265 BHP on a standard S3 (the proof on Star Performances rollers seem to indicate nearer 254/256)...and the very same Jim who told the same unfortunate soul - and me - that the addition of a 'Power Gesket' that the same Jim sells, will add 5-10% more power on the same APR mapped car - dyno proven.

    Guess what? The Power Gasket added nothing. Nowt, nadda, f*ck-all.
    At least it didn't when blind testing was done at Star Performance on my high boost S3.

    So, who's dyno is lying?
    Which Jim is telling porkies?

    That's up to you to decide.....
    #27
  29. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    300bhp is neigh on impossible to produce on a s3/tt with the standard turbo,probably with a full motec m400 decent ic and pipes no cat etc you may just scrape it(never been done) .I know hgp turbo in germany produce a larger housing for the k04(v.expensive) so that you can just get 300hp but this really proves that it can't be done on the standard k04.
    My advice would be a re-map will do on a standard car(most bang per buck).Then if you want to replace the turbo and go for 320-350 go with a larger turbo,intercooler,injectors..etc.
    Just my 2p.
    #28
  30. Gworks
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    Gworks New Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ess_Three said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:

    When did Jim have an S3??? Recently he's had a Golf MK3, Audi TTR and now has a SEAT Leon Cupra R which has gained performance since having the downpipe put on!? Are we talking about the same Jim here? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I suspect we are not...

    I am taliking about the Jim of Star Performance - Jim Curley...who actually has his own MAHA rolling road, and being a fundamentally decent bloke, is not afraid to tell you that some 'mystery' physics defying tuning product is actually a crock of [censored], should it prove to be so.

    Jim has tested many of these so calle miracle power making devices...and guess what? No gains.

    I have teasted another lorry load of products that also claim to give 'monster' power gains...and guess what?...no gains.
    All of my testing was also done on Star Performance's rolling road - but with my hiring the dyno, and paying the bills out of my pocket to ensure accurate results!


    I suspect the Jim you are referring to is the same Jim who told some unfortunate soul that APR's standard serial port map makes 265 BHP on a standard S3 (the proof on Star Performances rollers seem to indicate nearer 254/256)...and the very same Jim who told the same unfortunate soul - and me - that the addition of a 'Power Gesket' that the same Jim sells, will add 5-10% more power on the same APR mapped car - dyno proven.

    Guess what? The Power Gasket added nothing. Nowt, nadda, f*ck-all.
    At least it didn't when blind testing was done at Star Performance on my high boost S3.

    So, who's dyno is lying?
    Which Jim is telling porkies?

    That's up to you to decide.....


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Obviously, not all RR are accurate, and obviously there is a bit of bitterness in the background there!? Either way, I know what I have seen and driven and like I mentioned be4 hand. If the car pushes closer to the 290mark, I will still be happy. We'll have to wait n see when I get a proper and accurate Dyno result from AmD!
    #29
  31. Ryanc
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    Ryanc Active Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    depends if call amd accurate ,amd was reading 23bhp more than another dyno when i went there.Funnily enough they map wrc cars on the lower dyno.If you just want a power run try nobles there nearer to you(nobles is not the lower reading dyno)and have a good reputation.just my 2p
    #30
  32. Gworks
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    Gworks New Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    Cheers for the advise. Might look into them?
    #31
  33. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Gworks said:
    Obviously, not all RR are accurate,


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Indeed that is the case.

    But surely a gain is a gain. And if a product is sold as producing an appreciable gain, it should do so on any car or any dyno, should it not?

    For a product to not produce the advertised gain, yet for people to continue to sell it as such, is surely a case of fraud, is it not?

    So when a product is sold as freeing up 5-10% power and does absolutely nothing...do you feel you have been miss-informed?
    Well, to be honest, I didn't. I didn't expect a gain...we tested it to prove it's a worthless modification, and to give the whole miss-information scene a kick up it's ar*e!



    [ QUOTE ]

    and obviously there is a bit of bitterness in the background there!?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not that I know of.

    The only bitterness that myself and Jim Culrly have in common is the miss-information that is taken as gospel, in the tuning industry.
    I find it unfair that one company can sell goods as producing massive gains without having their own dyno and independantly proving the gains are valid.

    This comment is not aimed at any company in partiular - thay are all guilty of this to some extent - some more than others...although ANY company with their own dyno will, in my opinion, have a head start...especially if they can produce gains and replicate it on differing customers cars - and prove it!


    [ QUOTE ]

    Either way, I know what I have seen and driven and like I mentioned be4 hand. If the car pushes closer to the 290mark, I will still be happy.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would too...but I have my doubts that it's possible to get near 290 honest BHP on standard managememt - regardless of who's ego massaging dyno you use.
    I wish you luck though...
    I egerly await your results.


    [ QUOTE ]

    We'll have to wait n see when I get a proper and accurate Dyno result from AmD!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Maybe you'll get the 300 BHP that your bling badges seem to intimate, from AmD! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #32
  34. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Ryanc said:
    300bhp is neigh on impossible to produce on a s3/tt with the standard turbo,probably with a full motec m400 decent ic and pipes no cat etc you may just scrape it(never been done) .


    [/ QUOTE ]

    At last...someone who's not taken in by the miss-information of this forum, and the tuning industry as a whole!

    I'm pleased you are here Ryan...someone who actually views things objectively!

    I don't believe it can be done either....despite a certain Mk2 Golf GTI I know of using a standard S3 engine and allegedly producing 315 BHP on standalone - but with a standard K04 turbo and a Rallye IC! Not possible...especially not at the boost levels it's using.
    I don't believe it, anyway...


    [ QUOTE ]

    I know hgp turbo in germany produce a larger housing for the k04(v.expensive) so that you can just get 300hp but this really proves that it can't be done on the standard k04.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Another truly informed response Ryan...
    How much proof do people need?

    The bottom line is...people don't want to hear that you can't make 300BHP...they want to be told lies and de-frauded out of their money in order to feel better. How sad is that?


    [ QUOTE ]

    My advice would be a re-map will do on a standard car(most bang per buck).Then if you want to replace the turbo and go for 320-350 go with a larger turbo,intercooler,injectors..etc.
    Just my 2p.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Having been down the route of tweaking every last thing bar the turbo..I'd agree!
    #33
  35. Ess_Three
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    Ess_Three Active Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ronin said:
    oi oi Glen - im over on the darkside now !

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Which Glen?
    This one, or that one?
    #34
  36. Gworks
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    Gworks New Member

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    [Oct 13, 2004]
    Too many Glens in this neighbourhood, lol!
    #35

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