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300BHP (or as near as dam) WITHOUT a Turbo U-grade

Discussion in 'Tuning' started by StephenBogan, Sep 28, 2004.

  1. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    As ever, the requirement for extra power goes on. Having a hard time talking myself into the £4K for the whole turbo thing, I have been trawling the internet for other options. (which will probably get shot down in flames.. Enter Glen stage left)

    Firstly, having been on the Cupranet forum and looking at some of the Leon R power figures, I was pleasently surprized to find that they are ALL, not just a few, quoting power figures of 270bhp upwards from simple re-maps. Now bearing in mind that these cars use the same 210/225 engine, same management as the S3/TT why are they able to chip up to highier BHP figures? I find it hard to believe that ALL their figures are 'optimistic rollers' maybe, they are just using a better version of software??

    Anyway, not being interested in getting just another remap for 5-10bhp I looked into it further. I got intouch with a company called Greer Sport, who claim to get 300bhp from Leon R's using.... Are you ready.... Custom 3" down pipe (yes this item rearing its head again), 803 injectors (same as used in a Volvo 850T-5, but we'll not tell anyone that) and a Collins Performance Chip. They said that they will need to alter the route of the downpipe to miss the transfer box, but that aint rocket science.

    Also there is another company, Statosphere or summit that quote 310BHP, again WITHOUT CHANGING THE TURBO. In their convertion there are replacement pullies, boost controler, turbo back exhaust, remap and a few other items but no turbo change.

    Once I have heard back from Greer Sport, I will fill you all in.

    Any comments so far?


    Stevie
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  3. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Leons are fwd remember, so their figures will be higher... but remember that flywheel figures are basically an educated guess! Nobody ACTUALLY know without running the engine on a bench! I would say 310 is a joke for a K04...remember figures mean little... look at the power and torque curves... it could peak high, but wouldnt REALLY be a true 310bhp have you though about maybe buying a K04 and getting turbo dynamics to modify it?

    Rich
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  4. Banwell
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    Banwell previously LeeS3

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    tell us more about modifying the k04 rich!
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  5. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Well Sportec turbo conversions use modified K04's with external wastegates... They produce BIG power! Only problem is, they are BIG money! However, im sure TD could modify the internal of the K04 to spin faster, spool up quicker, therefore produce more power safely... Worth considering... They ARE developing a TT manifold too...which would more than likely fit the S3 too!

    Rich
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  6. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ScotSTHREE said:Firstly, having been on the Cupranet forum and looking at some of the Leon R power figures, I was pleasently surprized to find that they are ALL, not just a few, quoting power figures of 270bhp upwards from simple re-maps. Now bearing in mind that these cars use the same 210/225 engine, same management as the S3/TT why are they able to chip up to highier BHP figures? I find it hard to believe that ALL their figures are 'optimistic rollers' maybe, they are just using a better version of software??

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would have thought most of it was down to the front wheel drive vs 4 wheel drive transmission loss figures causing a difference. If its the same engine, then it will be the same software and therefore the same power.

    The guy who is talking about upgraded injectors with the d/p and a custom remap *may* be on to something, but again, who knows? You'll never get objective evidence unless you try it yourself. (let me know how you get on though, I may be interested /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

    Stratmosphere sounds like a dreamers figure. I assume the "pullies" they refer to are the ancillary belt drives, I very much doubt you can yield significant power there, and as I recall, apart from this mythical downpipe (which thus far has lost power on the rollers) Glen's car has pretty much everything done to it and isn't anywhere near those figures.... 35bhp from a downpipe and a few other bits and pieces (unless its a hybrid blower) - no chance!!
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  7. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Yeah, I've thought about the Hybrid route too Rich. Thing is its the standard downpipes that seems to be holding the whole thing back. Even with a stainless on the exhaust sounds like its got a sock stuck in it!

    I've heard that with the a remaped S3 and standard injectors the car actually LOOSES power when the 3" DP is fitted! This shows just how restricked the std set up is! Surley upping the injector size & a new map would compliment the additional flow of exhaust gases and equate to more power?
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  8. DavidR
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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ScotSTHREE said:I've heard that with the a remaped S3 and standard injectors the car actually LOOSES power when the 3" DP is fitted! This shows just how restricked the std set up is! Surley upping the injector size & a new map would compliment the additional flow of exhaust gases and equate to more power?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Only if the injectors and d/p are the limiting part of the engine - I suspect not of the d/p, I suspect it is the turbo (as fitting a bigger one without the d/p gets big figures). You can only get more power if the weakest component is identified and rectified. You could have a 15" diameter intake and exhaust, but if the turbo is at max efficiency, you are not going to get more power.
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  9. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    See thing is David, one of the reasons the turbo becomes inefficiant is due to high temps at high rpm .One of the main contibuting factors of this high level of heat is down to the gases not flowing out quick enough. The dp is ok for standard boost but when the turbo is trying to throw nearly twice the normal down the 11/2" pipes it has to be a different story surely?

    [ QUOTE ]


    [/ QUOTE ] I suspect it is the turbo (as fitting a bigger one without the d/p gets big figures).

    What big turbo kits use the standard d/p?

    Stevie
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  10. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    There isn't a specific kit, but there is a golf that was under development a few years ago running a k04 with hybrid inners producing good figures with standard d/p.

    I still maintain that the efficiency of the turbo is key to the problem, and this can only be resolved by looking at the turbo. Its all about air flow, sure, but the potential performance advantage of a free flow d/p is still going to rely of the amount of air the turbo is moving. If the oem turbo isn't finding the standard d/p limiting then the larger one is not going to help (as you'll still have a theoretical maximum intake pressue level which is dependant upon the configuration of the turbine. D/P mods may aid in spool up time, but are unlikely to produce more intake pressure as the turbo is still running at or near its potential whether the gasses are escaping quickly or not.

    In any case, I think the potential advantages of the d/p mods with OEM turbo will be limited, and certainly on a ££ per BHP scale, poor. The D/P may have a role with the bigger turbos, but again, on the S3s the data just ism't there yet to make a sound judgement.
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  11. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    (This is scotSTHREE) - can't find my password on this home machine

    A mate of mine has a Cavy Turbo. He has a FMIC, phase II chip, low comp pistons and a full 3" turbo back exhaust. He said that upgrading the latter was the thing that made the biggest difference after chipping it.

    There are also a few guys on here with dp upgrades on their A3 (xxx is one of them) an they have also reported the same.

    Anyways, I suppose there will be no conclusive evidence either way to prove otherwise untill someone has it done. Question is, why are there no turbo back systems readily available? Is it because they don't work when the car is in standard trim due to fueling issues?

    Stevie
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  12. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
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  13. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Thing is Steve, that still costs over £3k and still uses the stock turbo, which is STILL not great...you will get bored with it, want more, and have to spend all the money all over again to do it properly... IMO, if it was cheap (>£1500) to get 300bhp with the K04 then it would be worth it (although i still question what the power delivery would be like...favourable or not...i'd sway more towards the not), bt at that price is simply not worth it..put an extra few £££ in and do it right... The difference would be night and day!

    Rich
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  14. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Rich, I'm not talking about going for this kit, far from it. I was just pointing out that it is possible!

    The part that is featured in this upgrade is, again, turbo back exhaust.

    Thats it. I'm off to get some scaffy tube and make one my self! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue_out.gif

    Stevie
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  15. DuncS3
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    DuncS3 Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    S3mon's Imola S3 made just over 300 bhp and 330 lb/ft on the G-force RR (which is a very well respected RR). He also got 296 bhp + about 330 odd lb/ft on AMDs RR. He has the stock turbo and these figures were without a 3" downpipe. He does though have a list of mods as long as your arm and runs about 2 bar boost.
    His car is noticeably quicker than any other S3 I have driven.

    Dunc
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  16. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Dunc, what exactly has he done?
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  17. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Have you thought about changing flywheel, bigger hoses, different intercoolers, injectors, remap, cat, pullies.
    If you can reduce those intake temps enough there is a load of power to be gained there. Why not raise your boost and get a better wastegate actuator.

    But the TD K04 definately packs a punch, and holds the boost right till the end of the rev range.
    Aparently the standard K04s have been seen lurking on ebay for 500 squids.
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  18. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Sep 28, 2004]
    Marky, I have a FMIC and to be honest, wasn't overly impressed. wish I'd kept the 700quid toward something better. It may come into its own later on with other mods I do eventualy.

    I thought about an uprated actuator but no one seems to have gone down that route or supplies them. Know anyone who has/does?

    Whats is a TD K04? Is it much better than the K04 fitted to the S3 as standard?

    When bigger injectors are used, do you need to have the car remapped to run them?

    Cheers,

    Stevie
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  19. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    Stevie - again, you have to say that the Stratis stage 1 sounds like it is at best optimistic. It sounds like they have added up the claimed power gains for all the bits fitted and given the end figure. We know that the power gasket is worth precisely f.all on the rolling road. If the injectors are not changed (and run close to 100% duty cycle at what is considered to be a genuine 275bhp) then it seems beyond the realms of common sense to be able to get them to produce a genuine 310bhp...

    Looking at their 430 conversion, you have to ask whether it is realistic or sensible. The bottom end of the 1.8T as standard is commonly regarded by tuners to be good for 320lb/ft torque. A little more will probbably not be too much to worry about, but if you are running 430bhp, you have to think the torque will be way out of the range of safety....

    Sounds like a lot of hype. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
    #18
  20. imported_RastaS4
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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    Well Sportec turbo conversions use modified K04's with external wastegates... They produce BIG power! Only problem is, they are BIG money! However, im sure TD could modify the internal of the K04 to spin faster, spool up quicker, therefore produce more power safely... Worth considering... They ARE developing a TT manifold too...which would more than likely fit the S3 too!

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's what I have on my S4... two modified K04 turbos from Sportec! Very powerful indeed!



    G
    #19
  21. imported_RastaS4
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    imported_RastaS4 Guest

    [Sep 29, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    Thing is Steve, that still costs over £3k and still uses the stock turbo, which is STILL not great...you will get bored with it, want more, and have to spend all the money all over again to do it properly... IMO, if it was cheap (>£1500) to get 300bhp with the K04 then it would be worth it (although i still question what the power delivery would be like...favourable or not...i'd sway more towards the not), bt at that price is simply not worth it..put an extra few £££ in and do it right... The difference would be night and day!

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Rich, if you the dinero to spend on mods.. why not do it properly from the start! Trust me you'll get your money's worth once your behind the wheel. I have spent an arm and a leg on my car and man... I'M ONE SATISFIED MF!


    G
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  22. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RastaS4 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    Thing is Steve, that still costs over £3k and still uses the stock turbo, which is STILL not great...you will get bored with it, want more, and have to spend all the money all over again to do it properly... IMO, if it was cheap (>£1500) to get 300bhp with the K04 then it would be worth it (although i still question what the power delivery would be like...favourable or not...i'd sway more towards the not), bt at that price is simply not worth it..put an extra few £££ in and do it right... The difference would be night and day!

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Rich, if you the dinero to spend on mods.. why not do it properly from the start! Trust me you'll get your money's worth once your behind the wheel. I have spent an arm and a leg on my car and man... I'M ONE SATISFIED MF!


    G

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have done it properly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif And i am satisfied with the outcome...for the time being atleast /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif But for my next stage of mods, the bits ive just replaced wont need doing again so its not a problem! All that will need changing is the ECU map to suite!

    have you got the torque printouts from when your car was Dyno'd??

    Rich
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  23. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    David, Star said the APR 340 kit (when it arrives) uses the OEM injectors. I asked about the OEM inj being flat out at 275ish and they said that is was all down to fuel pressure. Up the pressure and the injectors will produce more fuel.

    Anyone know anything about these TD K04's?
    #22
  24. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ScotSTHREE said:
    Anyone know anything about these TD K04's?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Turbo dynamics certainly would /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    #23
  25. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    Cool. Cheers Rich! Mine of usefull info as always!
    #24
  26. Markey
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    Markey Active Member

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    Yes sorry Scot it is a turbo dynamics ko4 that i am running.
    It all depends really on what FMIC you have as the larger the end tanks the better and get one that is proven to reduce the air temps.
    #25
  27. StevieBogan
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    StevieBogan Member

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    Marky, its been proven. Ess_three the technical mod has the same IC. It also uses one of the original side IC aswell. Makes the car drive more consistant and pulls better through the revs but aghhh, maybe I was just expecting too much as usuall!

    Spoke to Nik at TD, is phoning me back tomorrow. Problem is he said the car may need mapped again!! Another £500.00?? Or is there an alternative to stop the car running lean with the extra boost??

    Cheers,

    Stevie (in the hoose hense the different screen name!)
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  28. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Stevie S3 said:
    Marky, its been proven. Ess_three the technical mod has the same IC. It also uses one of the original side IC aswell. Makes the car drive more consistant and pulls better through the revs but aghhh, maybe I was just expecting too much as usuall!

    Spoke to Nik at TD, is phoning me back tomorrow. Problem is he said the car may need mapped again!! Another £500.00?? Or is there an alternative to stop the car running lean with the extra boost??

    Cheers,

    Stevie (in the hoose hense the different screen name!)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You really cant expect not to have to map it again! and were not talking an off the shelf job.. were talking PROPER remap... its the only way to do it right! a modded turbo will not be made any use of running the standaard map!

    Rich
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  29. AndybS3
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    [Sep 29, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Stevie S3 said:
    Marky, its been proven. Ess_three the technical mod has the same IC. It also uses one of the original side IC aswell. Makes the car drive more consistant and pulls better through the revs but aghhh, maybe I was just expecting too much as usuall!



    [/ QUOTE ]


    I,m sure the S3 mentioned previously (300bhp) has the same I/C as yours Steve, S3Mon pipped me to it when it was up for sale in the Marketplace


    #28
  30. StephenBogan
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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Stevie S3 said:
    Marky, its been proven. Ess_three the technical mod has the same IC. It also uses one of the original side IC aswell. Makes the car drive more consistant and pulls better through the revs but aghhh, maybe I was just expecting too much as usuall!

    Spoke to Nik at TD, is phoning me back tomorrow. Problem is he said the car may need mapped again!! Another £500.00?? Or is there an alternative to stop the car running lean with the extra boost??

    Cheers,

    Stevie (in the hoose hense the different screen name!)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You really cant expect not to have to map it again! and were not talking an off the shelf job.. were talking PROPER remap... its the only way to do it right! a modded turbo will not be made any use of running the standaard map!

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Who would you recomend Rich? If a off the shelf job is around 500quid, how much is a custom job? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Stevie
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  31. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Andy bS3 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Stevie S3 said:
    Marky, its been proven. Ess_three the technical mod has the same IC. It also uses one of the original side IC aswell. Makes the car drive more consistant and pulls better through the revs but aghhh, maybe I was just expecting too much as usuall!



    [/ QUOTE ]


    I,m sure the S3 mentioned previously (300bhp) has the same I/C as yours Steve, S3Mon pipped me to it when it was up for sale in the Marketplace




    [/ QUOTE ]


    does this mean he is breaking the car up? Any bits?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #30
  32. Ess_Three
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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Stevie S3 said:
    Marky, its been proven. Ess_three the technical mod has the same IC. It also uses one of the original side IC aswell.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    There are a few things to consider regarding ICs...

    An IC won't make power. How can it? Power is simply burning fuel and air...and we're adding neither. What it can do is prevent the ECU retarding the timing due to hot inlet temperatures after the ICs....so we see it as a perceived gain - when actually it's preventing loss!

    The big things for IC design is surface area and volume.
    Go too on volume and you add lag due the the small turbos we have (standard turbos that is...not Rich's beast) not being able to 'fill' the system quickly enough.
    So, you need to keep the volume sensible so as not to add lag.

    Then there's surface area - the main factor in IC efficiency. Look at the surface area of the standard IC vs a decent FMIC and it's obvious to see that a FMIC will cool far better than the silly standard things.

    In my mind, design of the IC - end cap design - is of very little concern. As long as the IC is not restrictive, the design of the end caps will not noticably restrict flow as the system is under pressure. If you are concerned about IC design, go have a look at the awful exhaust manifold design - that'll give you something else to worry about instead!

    So, with a decent surface area, secent volume IC fitted...what are we to expect?
    More power?
    More torque?
    Or the ability to make constant power regardeless of ambient conditions and the ability to further tune? I think so...

    A few facts for you:
    My S3 running 1.65 bar boost on standard ICs = 78 degrees temperature at the inlet manifold - AFTER the standard ICs!

    My S3 running 1.85bar boost on the FMIC + uprated SMIC = 23 degrees temperature at the inlet manifold.

    More boost, more timing (both adding heat) but WAY less temperature - the FMIC works.



    A few thoughts on the mythical 300BHP conversions on standard injectors / turbos.

    I, for one, just do not believe a standard turbo'd S3 can make 300 BHP - even on standalone management. It may be possible...but until I've seen it on a 'control' rolling road that I've witnessed the rigging up and running, I'm not having it!

    I just can't see how all these cars we hear about run more standard parts than I do, using far less boost and end up making more power and torque. The simple maths don't add up!
    Again, I'm not saying it's possible...but I'm sceptical to say the least.



    Fuel injector duty cycles:

    A fuel injector duty cycle should never be run above about 0.8 - 0.85 of it's maximum duty cycle. That's an accepted safety factor to prevent 'lock up' there you try turning the injector solenoid on-off-on-off so quickly that it cries 'enough' and locks up. Not good.
    According to the maths I did with Mitchell (formerly APR / REVO), I was running at 0.85 - 0.90...a bit close!
    Fair enough, this was at 6000RPM+ and with a change of N75...but close none the less. Too close? Maybe!

    Also, it was worth noting that turbocharged cars are normally set to run a bit rich to assist in cylinder cooling - the 1.8T is no exception.
    However, at high revs under high boost, my S3 was running less rich than normal - this is not to say it was overfuelling to start with...but it was on the rich side of Stoichiometric, rather than the far more dangerous (on a turbo engine), lean side of Stoichiometric.

    Another point of note here:
    Running a non standard N75 adds to the leaning off process at high revs as often - on pretty well modified cars - the fuel map can't keep up with the boost being suplied - resulting again, in the leaning off of the mixture from it's previously 'safe' state of rich.



    Fuel pressure:
    There are a few missunderstandings regarding fuel pressure and fuel flow.
    A fuel injector is designed to atomise the fuel that is forced through it at a constant velocity - the calibrated holes in the end ensure proper atomisation based upon the fuel pressure the engine runs.

    So, you want more fuel...what do you do?
    You crank up the fuel pressure. That'll add more fuel wont's it. Well yes...but sort of no!

    Anyone familiar with Bernoullis equation will be able to concur that:
    Increase the velocity of an incompressible fluid, and the pressure will drop.
    Conversely, increase the pressure of an incompressible fluid, and the velocity will drop.

    There's where the problem is!
    A fuel injector is 'calibrated' - or 'selected' - to work with a certain fuel velocity to ensure correct atomisation of the fuel - you decrease that fuel velocity accross the nozzles in the end of the injector, and you loose some of the atomisation.
    Less perfect atomisation CAN cause one, or both, of these situations:

    Bore wash - where the fuel does not atomise but forms droplets and clings to the cylinder walls, eventually making it's way into the oil and thinning the oil with potentially disasterous results (OK...pretty unlikely...but possible none the less!)

    Lean running due to improper fuel atomisation and combustion - a very real problem.


    Just to add another example:
    If me S3 was tending to run a bit leaner than ideal on full 'high' boost, then surely adding more fuel pressure would add more fuel and solve my problems?
    I tried it...added a Corrado VR6 4 bar FPR...
    I lost power and torque. Dyno proven.
    Why?

    Re-read the bit above about improper fuel atomisation!
    That's my guess...

    Just a thought...I'm a bit sceptical of any system that simply cranks up the fuel pressure.
    To do it properly i'd be looking for bigger injectors at the very least.


    #31
  33. imported_RastaS4
    Online

    imported_RastaS4 Guest

    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    RastaS4 said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    Thing is Steve, that still costs over £3k and still uses the stock turbo, which is STILL not great...you will get bored with it, want more, and have to spend all the money all over again to do it properly... IMO, if it was cheap (>£1500) to get 300bhp with the K04 then it would be worth it (although i still question what the power delivery would be like...favourable or not...i'd sway more towards the not), bt at that price is simply not worth it..put an extra few £££ in and do it right... The difference would be night and day!

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Rich, if you the dinero to spend on mods.. why not do it properly from the start! Trust me you'll get your money's worth once your behind the wheel. I have spent an arm and a leg on my car and man... I'M ONE SATISFIED MF!


    G

    [/ QUOTE ]

    have you got the torque printouts from when your car was Dyno'd??

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well actually I don't have the printouts of my last dyno, but I will remap my car in a couple of weeks. Once I get them, I will post them!

    G
    #32
  34. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ScotSTHREE said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    Stevie S3 said:
    Marky, its been proven. Ess_three the technical mod has the same IC. It also uses one of the original side IC aswell. Makes the car drive more consistant and pulls better through the revs but aghhh, maybe I was just expecting too much as usuall!

    Spoke to Nik at TD, is phoning me back tomorrow. Problem is he said the car may need mapped again!! Another £500.00?? Or is there an alternative to stop the car running lean with the extra boost??

    Cheers,

    Stevie (in the hoose hense the different screen name!)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You really cant expect not to have to map it again! and were not talking an off the shelf job.. were talking PROPER remap... its the only way to do it right! a modded turbo will not be made any use of running the standaard map!

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Who would you recomend Rich? If a off the shelf job is around 500quid, how much is a custom job? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Stevie

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well AmD did mine... was around the £800 mark, BUT this was a completely custom remap which took them 2 days to get perfect, which i must say it is! I gave them my requirements, and they mapped it to those requirements (i asked for 1.2 bar boost and a 7000rpm rev limit)

    Rich
    #33
  35. AndybS3
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    AndybS3 Member

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    When upgrading the FPR would not the ECU see the extra fuel and compensate by lowering the inj' pulse width i.e. end result standard injectors working less but at the wrong pressure they are designed to work with = less power?

    Has anyone had any experience of Unichip for custom setups?

    #34
  36. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Andy bS3 said:
    When upgrading the FPR would not the ECU see the extra fuel and compensate by lowering the inj' pulse width i.e. end result standard injectors working less but at the wrong pressure they are designed to work with = less power?

    Has anyone had any experience of Unichip for custom setups?



    [/ QUOTE ]

    I wouldnt trust anyone to do this kind of work other than people who know the cars! Not worth skimping on..you pay twice if you dont do it right the first time!

    Rich
    #35
  37. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    With all this debate, it would be nice if APR pulled their finger out and produced their claimed 340ish kit. I dare say it will fit well, work well and be the trouble free solution to falling out with the bank manager.

    To be honest, I am not going to bother with any other mods listed above on top of what the car has already other than a larger turbo and associated attachments, you can FEEL the OEM turbo dying away at the top of the rev range, and the only solution is to move A LOT more air above 5000rpm...

    David.

    Saving for an expensive trip to Uncle Jim's....
    #36
  38. DavidR
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    DavidR Active Member

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    COMING SOON
    -----------
    APR announces the Transverse Stage III + system. The ultimate turbo system upgrade is now available for the TT 225. This kit is capable of 380 horsepower at the flywheel, while retaining stock-like drivability. The highlights of the kit include the following:

    APR Investment Cast Inconel Exhaust Manifold
    Honeywell/Garrett Ballistic Series Ball-Bearing Turbocharger
    Larger APR designed Mass Airflow Sensor Housing
    APR Custom Cast Silicone Intake Hoses
    APR High Flow Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump
    All Associate Plumbing and Hardware

    Price TBA


    [/ QUOTE ]

    fingers drumming off desk...
    #37
  39. RichA3Turbo
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    RichA3Turbo ...Watching you! Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    David R said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    COMING SOON
    -----------
    APR announces the Transverse Stage III + system. The ultimate turbo system upgrade is now available for the TT 225. This kit is capable of 380 horsepower at the flywheel, while retaining stock-like drivability. The highlights of the kit include the following:

    APR Investment Cast Inconel Exhaust Manifold
    Honeywell/Garrett Ballistic Series Ball-Bearing Turbocharger
    Larger APR designed Mass Airflow Sensor Housing
    APR Custom Cast Silicone Intake Hoses
    APR High Flow Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump
    All Associate Plumbing and Hardware

    Price TBA


    [/ QUOTE ]

    fingers drumming off desk...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But the big question is, will it actually fit in a RHD car?

    Rich
    #38
  40. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    [ QUOTE ]
    RichA3Turbo said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    David R said:
    [ QUOTE ]
    COMING SOON
    -----------
    APR announces the Transverse Stage III + system. The ultimate turbo system upgrade is now available for the TT 225. This kit is capable of 380 horsepower at the flywheel, while retaining stock-like drivability. The highlights of the kit include the following:

    APR Investment Cast Inconel Exhaust Manifold
    Honeywell/Garrett Ballistic Series Ball-Bearing Turbocharger
    Larger APR designed Mass Airflow Sensor Housing
    APR Custom Cast Silicone Intake Hoses
    APR High Flow Fuel Injectors and Fuel Pump
    All Associate Plumbing and Hardware

    Price TBA


    [/ QUOTE ]

    fingers drumming off desk...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But the big question is, will it actually fit in a RHD car?

    Rich

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Will we ever find out? S3's will probably worth 2quid by the time they bring it out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #39
  41. StephenBogan
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    StephenBogan Member

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    [Sep 30, 2004]
    David, you are dead right. After reading on here, searching on the internet, talking to various tuners and listing to the Oracle (Glen), I have came to the following conclusions:

    Yes it probably can be done, but at what expence? How long would it last?

    Speaking with a very helpfull chap from Turbo Dynamics, whos name escapes me at the moment, he tells me that yes they could provide me with a hybrid K04, it would (with the correct map) provide upto 300bhp BUT, now this is the part that drove it home, the existing manifold would not last due to the heat created as the design is so poor. Ok for stadard bhp but not for big bhp. This point being previously raised by Glen.

    The guy said that the original manifold was good for only 265bhp MAX, anymore and it would start to crack over a period of time.

    More interestingly, he asked how long long the car had been chipped, I said 20K. turns out that the std K04, when driven hard, especially when chipped will have cracks in the exhaust side of the turbo! This is due to heat. This in its self shows just how inefficiant the turbo must be when pushed to run high boost levels (watch out Glen!).

    So in conclusion. Save your money and follow in the foot steps of Rich!


    1p....2p....3p... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    #40

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