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3.0tdi Quattro purchased.... Vibration from the rear??

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by Craig Cull, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys,

    Went over to Barnsley yesterday with my dad to buy a 3.0 tdi Quattro s line in metallic blue. After the sales man trying to get me away from the car (knowing I'm a body man) I decided I wouldn't just look at it.... I'd tare it to pieces instead :)

    Paint work looks mainly original minus the front bumper, no dents or heavy repairs etc, interior is mint and drives sweet as a nut..... Until we get back to Leeds...

    When setting off the car seems like its wobbling on the rear end, like a tyre is flat. Only low down the revs on set off, then its fine. I've had it up in the air and everything seems tight (no loose bushes, wheels etc) and no bangs. It almost sounds like a low thud.. Like the rear diff is locking up or starting to. On the motorway ther is no vibration etc and the car just pulls like a train! Only this issue. The car is still under warranty so any help would be brilliant. Cheers :)
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  2. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That's a new one on me, Craigcull. You usually get a bit of Quattro judder when pulling away in a tight turn, but nothing like you are describing. Sure it's not a brake pad sticking to the disc and then freeing off as you pull away?
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  3. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I expected something on set off buts it's something I've never felt in mine that's for sure. Both rear wheels turn free and everything looks solid, no movements etc. I'm worried its the diff, coz it only seems to do it when turning and setting off and my dad doesn't drive it hard either. I also followed him to look for any unusual wheel movements but everything looked fine. It's definitely a strange 1. :/
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  4. rizzini7
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    rizzini7 Active Member

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    Have you got a transmission repair centre local? Maybe try them if you think it's the diff. They usually take it out for a free diagnostic. My local did anyway as I've got a front transfer bearing and my DMF (full car vibration :)) on the way out.

    Hope it's something simple and easily sorted. At least its in warranty whatever the issue is.
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  5. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    I do but unfortunately my dad doesn't. It is abit of a vibration, but it's almost a notchy vibration. I'll see if I can get someone to look at it. I just don't know where we stand with the warranty when taking it to someone else. My dads not too worried. I'm probably more worried than him tbh, seens I pointed him in this direction. The bloke either fixes it or I'll simply park it in his living room seens he left his home address in the satnav lol!
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  6. rizzini7
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    rizzini7 Active Member

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    I'd try getting a diagnosis locally and price on repair etc... Could turn out to be something very simple (hopefully) then take it up with the garage. I know what you mean every time I feel or hear something I get paranoid there's an issue.
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  7. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I think we will give that a go. My mate who's an Audi master tech is having a look next week. Hopefully he can shed some light on the situation. I'm just praying its something simple. Coz the car is beautiful!
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  8. V6 Quatt
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    V6 Quatt Active Member

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    Sorry to hear keep us posted
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  9. g00se
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    g00se Member

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  10. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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  11. Giosabcsl
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    Giosabcsl Active Member

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    Really keen to hear what the result is on this one as I am having the exact same issue. No one I seems to know what the issue is as i have looked at it and had many others and when I try replicate it murphys law it doesnt happen.

    Straight line for me its fine and pulls well. But pulling away and turning I get the thud,knocking noise. Craigcull the best way to replicate the noise is put 2 passengers in the rear seats then go for a drive. You will probably find it does it a lot more often.

    I was told change diff oil which I did mine was quite low but nothing was leaking out as people suggest mainly from the shafts. Little improvement but still knocking.

    Was also told the rear anti roll bar can affect this some how so, considering that mine was corroded anyway. On with the RS4 rear roll bar fitted. Again I thought the knocking had stopped but I dont have such luck.

    The only thing I have not done that has been suggested is to replace the tyres. Some say that cheap tyres especially non OEM tyres like chinese tyres which are a very hard compound tend to do this I read a thread about a guy explaining the same issue and 56 pages later on a thread turned out it was his tyres.

    On the other hand 80% of audi tech members I know state that it takes a lot to damage the rear differentials on these cars. And almost all 3 people have said they dont think its the diff. And one particular place I took the car into stated that they had a customer with the same issue replaced his diff and still did the same thing. Which in one hand makes me think it is possible or on the other was his diff just a refurb one and had the same issue? Who knows.

    Personally for me I think there is a possibility that tyres could play a major factor. Am I sold on the fact that it is going to cost £600 to eliminate the noise?? not really. Especially as I still have 6mm tread all around dont really want to be replacing tyres just yet.

    My only other possible solution is it is something to do with the propshaft. I know there is a centre rubber mount that if you look down the tunnel just above your exhaust you will notice a Ring type rubber that houses around the propshaft some say that is the cause and they get weak and soft over time but it is a entire propshaft out job to get to this rubber sadly if it were to be replaced that is. Which to me sounds more plausable.

    The one thing I can also suggest Craigcull is to get the car back up on the ramp and do one of 3 things. Check that rubber ring around the propshaft for play, check your diff fluid and check if it is full if not fill it up to the filler line and that no fluid is dripping out of the diff. Lastly lift the car off the ground enough so that the rear wheels are free and make sure the car is in "N" or neutral then try this place both hands on the propshaft and turn it clock wise and take particular notice on how long it takes for the diff to actually turn the rear wheels if that makes sense. This is considered back lash and again is another possible reason why I think on mine that its the propshaft because when I turn mine you can hear a knock and the wheels dont turn almost instantly its like there is a delay "or play" in the box itself. Which im told is not normal. So that is all I can suggest on my end I really hope you find the solution.

    As it annoys me to DEATH!!

    Just to comment on the mounts mention in the above posts. People have tried these especially the bloke from the 56 page thread I spoke of and he said it actually make the noise a lot worse because it seemed even thou it stiffened up everything it made it more pronounced if that makes sense. Kinda like the same vibration effect that members complain about when fitting a snub mount.

    Not sure if i can post from other audi forum sites. Might get shot by the forum "snipers":gun2:
    But here goes , wierd juddering when on full lock

    Have a read there. Thats just one of the complaints and they in particular talk about the 3.0tdi quattro
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013
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  12. rizzini7
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    rizzini7 Active Member

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    Have you rechecked the bushes on the ARB. Had a similar issue 4 months after fitting RS4 RARB. Turned out to be a dodgy batch of bushes and they had twisted and caused a knock every now and then (even more so when passengers on board). Got some new ones and they were a different texture and went on a lot easier????? No problem since.
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  13. A4_MaJiK
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    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    If you're talking about the judder on full lock turns then I believe every permanent 4wd vehicle suffers from this. Something to do with the wheels skipping. Mine has always done this.
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  14. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This, plus one.
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  15. Grahamb
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    Grahamb Member

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    Do these cars not have slip diffs
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  16. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all the comments guys, but mine is a quattro and its never judderd on full lock. But tbh this is happening long before full lock. My dad mentioned cheap tyres lastnite. Thinking about it, it almost sounds plausable. We are gonna put my wheels on the rear at the weekend and see what happens. Failing that, arb check then diff oil for the cost. Failing that the rubber ring on the prop shaft. It looks like its just going to be a process of illimination. It also helps to know that it is a common fault. Mite just take it to audi and complain to customer services, see if they will perform some kind of good will gesture. Costs nothing to ask i guess
    Thanks to everyone for your feedback, ill will keep you updated on our progress :)
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  17. g00se
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    g00se Member

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    You should have read thru the pages and pages of peeps talking about the A4 Diff clunk....

    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=a4 diff clunk&spell=1

    Whats the mileage on your dads new car?

    APIKOL Performance Automotive Components is proud to announce the release of its upgraded Rear Differential Mount System for the Audi B6 and B7 - A4, S4 and RS4 chassis. This Rear Differential Mount takes only 15 to 30 minutes to install.

    It is designed to eliminate excessive rear differential movement and cure the dreaded "clunk" caused by aggressive shifting and/or acceleration. This is a must-have upgrade for higher mileage vehicles as well as anyone looking to increase drivetrain performance.


    goose
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  18. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Sorry mate, didnt see it. Its done 76k on a 56 plate
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  19. Grahamb
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    Grahamb Member

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    I got thinking on the tyre thing, we had what felt like crabbing on the fronts of our Jaguar xj, this only happened on full lock, like the car was skipping over the road, it was done to wheel alignment in the end.
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  20. Giosabcsl
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    Giosabcsl Active Member

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    OH and one thing I forgot to mention was to check your mounts in particular your engine and gearbox mounts. Even thou it may sound strange but it can cause an affect on the rear especially if they all worn everything will sit lower thus causing it to be out of alignment. If that makes sense.

    Off one particular website they state about the transmission mount. They quote

    "Rubber transmission mounts can become worn over time and cause you massive headaches during your everyday driving situations. These tiny mounts have a big job to do, as they sit on the cross member and help soften all those vibrations.Worn mounts will cause a transmission to become unaligned and damage the transmission internally. You might notice clunking noises from under your car and drivetrain vibrations. Your vehicle's acceleration might not be as good and you may also get noises when your a wide open throttle. Replace transmission mounts that are cracked, worn or missing with these replacement parts."

    They dont exactly say it is the "clunk" we referring to but again something to look into.

    As I know mine need replacing :(
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  21. Big Al
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    Big Al A4 2.0T FSI Quattro

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    My A4 B7 2.0T FSI Quattro doesn't make any transmission noises or judder? I did however change the rear diff and gearbox oil at Audi straight after I bought my car (which has done 76k).
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  22. V6 Quatt
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    V6 Quatt Active Member

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    Yes common on all had 4 Quattro's all done the same
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  23. MattUK
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    MattUK Member

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    So what is the frequency on changing the oil in the diff/gearbox ? Is it the same for the manual and tiptronic auto quattros ?

    thanks

    Matt
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  24. Giosabcsl
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    Giosabcsl Active Member

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    I cant comment on the diff but as for manual boxes Audi say every 40000 miles/40k miles the fluid should be changed.
    The automatic boxes should be changed every 30k if in heavy city traffic, hot weather or any other severe driving conditions.
    Otherwise for normal conditions its every 60k.

    Only exception is a DSG gearbox which should be changed every 30000-40000 miles.
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  25. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Which auto box are you referring to here? I recall the Multitronic CVT box needing oil changes every 40,000 miles, but was under the impression the traditional torque convertor box from ZF didn't require scheduled oil changes.
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  26. .Jas.
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    .Jas. Member

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    As jdp says, I'm pretty sure the auto box in the 3.0 tdi is a sealed unit and requires no oil changes.
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  27. rhinoman
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    rhinoman Member

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    The ZF box should be left alone, causes all sorts of issues if messed with resulting in a very expensive repair, (same gearbox in our X5 so I've learnt this the hard way with a £2.5k recondition).
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  28. A4_MaJiK
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    A4_MaJiK Azeem

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    I don't think the oil in my manual box has ever been changed! I'm on 87k ATM. :scared2:
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  29. rizzini7
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    rizzini7 Active Member

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    Mine will of been changed twice next week when mine goes in for reconditioning :(. Will get them to change the rear diff oil at the same time as I've had the oil for two years but never got round to doing it ;)
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  30. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Well after visiting my audi mastertech over the weekend, the problem is as bad as first thought. Long term it wants a new diff, but he has recommended changing the oil and run it for a few 100 miles and see what happens. Its a cheap option to see the end result. Its fine when cold but as the oil warms up thats when it becomes quite a clear thud, and this happens atleast 5 times on set off. He reckons a bearing is on its way out, hence the thud. Also alot of loose play in the diff when turning the wheels.

    After investigation of the previous owner and service history, it turns out its been on a farm for the last year, after looking underneath its covered in mudd (which we have now cleaned off) which indicates it wasnt a smooth road leading upto the farm, also a wheel has been replaced, makes we wonder if it was on the rear. Its going bk on the 19th, hopefully they will replace it under warranty..... :/
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  31. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Fingers crossed for you that the seller does the decent thing.
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  32. rizzini7
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    rizzini7 Active Member

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    Sorry to hear it wasn't a simple issue mate. At least you know now and not further down the road when warranty has run out I suppose. Hope they sort it for you're dad as they should.
    Sounds like a rough farm track where the diff has been working hard and possibly a rear wheel has taken a whack at some point then.

    Mines now in dry dock having the front transfer bearing (I hope that's all it is) replaced. Looking at £820 for that all in if its any comparison.
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  33. Giosabcsl
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    Giosabcsl Active Member

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    Well if that is the case. Im keen to hear the result and also the cost for the replacement when the work gets carried out.
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  34. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that worries me is if they wont replace it under warranty as it hasnt actually failed yet. But ive been told to expect £1500 plus if they wont replace it. Only other option is to take an extra warranty out and if it goes claim on that. Aslong as it doesnt damage anything else in the process like....
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  35. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    it it doesn't need to fail. It's clearly faulty, so you can argue under Sale of Goods Act that the car is not of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose. In the first six months after purchase, the burden of proof is reversed, so the retailer had to prove the car is of satisfactory quality and/or fit for purpose. You don't have to prove it isn't.
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  36. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Oh rite, i wasnt aware of that. Ill be going with my dad to see the guy, so he best be positive about the situation, thats all i can say
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  37. V6 Quatt
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    V6 Quatt Active Member

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    Not required sealed unit already investigated
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  38. Giosabcsl
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    Giosabcsl Active Member

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    As far as I know the manual units arent sealed units and can be changed. How else does the central diff get oil changed? Because it runs off the same fluid as the gearbox.

    As for the auto boxes I know you get the multi tronic boxes and the DSG/sport tronic. Multi tronic can be changed and should be around 40000.

    If you going by Audis rule, as they state they are "sealed units and sealed for life" Well if that is the case why do they have filler holes and drain holes :yum:

    Were as Audi actually mean its "sealed for life" for the period of the warranty which I think was 50/60k miles.
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  39. Craig Cull
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    Craig Cull Well-Known Member

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    Well... We took it back to the seller yesterday, who took us over to see his vag mastertech. He said straight away that it wasnt right. Hes getting back to us next week with the next step. Ill let you know the outcome :)
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  40. rizzini7
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    rizzini7 Active Member

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    Good to hear they're looking at it
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