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3.0Q ASN. couple of fault codes. new lambda needed?

Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by fourcircle, Mar 21, 2011.

  1. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Mar 21, 2011]
    My EML came on recently and went away again. happened on and off for a week or so and now it seem sto be staying on. got these codes and I'm wondering if I need to change the rear lambda(s)? I changed the fronts when I put the Milltek and new cats on so I wonder if it could be related to all the snow melting just now and maybe getting moisture in the wrong places underneath? Or is it as simple as needing to change the rear lambda? is bank 2 the right or left by the way? depending on the price i'd probably change both at the same time.
    3.0 Quattro manual ASN by the way

    17530
    P1122
    O2 Sensor Heater Circ.,Bank2-Sensor2 Open


    17548
    P1140
    Bank2-Sensor2 Internal Resistance too High


    [​IMG]
    #1
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  3. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Mar 23, 2011]
    no help from the collective wisdom of ASN :(
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2011
    #2
  4. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Mar 23, 2011]
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  5. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Mar 23, 2011]
    Full detail from the log (previous wording was from looking up the codes on the bentley website):
    17530 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B2 S2: Open Circuit
    P1122 - 004 - No Signal/Communication
    17548 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S2: Internal Resistance too High
    P1140 - 004 - No Signal/Communication

    It's the no signal/communication bit that confuses me. Like I've severed a bloody cable. I have ramps and will get a look physically at the weekend to see if there's anything bloody obvious (cable swinging free in the breeze? :) )

    I'll also email Rosstech and see what they say
    cheers matey
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  6. dirtydamdog
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    dirtydamdog New Member

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    Full circle my EML has been coming on and off for a few weeks now. The garage I took it too said I needed to replace the cats as the engine is tuned up and the rear is a miltek. Now the car has started stalling and running a little rough did you replace your cats with upgraded ones for this reason? Or did you just need new ones? I don't wanna pay out loads of money for new cats if it's a sensor just gone.
    #5
  7. Woorlord
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    Woorlord shifting to Hyperspace... . VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    Checked my Bentley manuals and as these are US engines does not include the ASN specifically.
    However,
    P1122 / 17530:
    O2 sensor heater circuit, Bank 2, Sensor 2 / Open circuit => but the "Corrective Action" box is empty!

    P1140 / 17548:
    Bank 2, Sensor 2 - Internal resistance too high => Corrective Action => Next, check signal wires for terminal resistances; if no terminal resistances are present: replace oxygen sensor.

    I am assuming these two faults are related to the same sensor, i.e. O2 sensor, and actually "Open Circuit" is a very high resistance.
    Measure the impedance with an Ohm meter.
    #6
  8. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    it's pretty common for the cats to go on the 3.0 ASN mate. It's actually the precats that sit on the downpipe that collapse and start to clog the downpipes. That will be why yours is stalling I'd say. the exhaust gases are getting blocked.
    I knew I had to change mine and because of the OEM cost I opted for cleaning out the precats and changing the main cats for new ones (S8 cats in my case because I was given them). Chances are if you get the precats cleaned out the main cats will actually still be OK by themselves. But if you go to the bother of having someone do that work then it might be worth getting a couple of sports cats fitted.
    What does your diagnostics scan say?

    **edit** I should add that I intend to replace the downpipes with custom made stainless tubing at some point because hollowed precats aren't ideal. I'll see if the non resonated pipes I took off are big enough for the job.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2011
    #7
  9. dsmclark40v
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    dsmclark40v Member

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    Hi NJ just seen this, Bank 2 is the passengers side and S2 is the rear sensor. Mine had an open circuit as one of the wires broke off in the connector itself. if this is the case audi do sell a repair kit with the terminal on the end. you should be able to see it in the engine bay it will be hidden behind your coolant reservoir. If that is the case then you are in luck as I have a spare one!
    #8
  10. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    thanks mate. really appreciate this.
    to measure the impedance do you know what terminals of the sensor plug I measure across? And what reading should I be expecting?
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  11. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    Sam you fekkin' superhero. You can send it over with a snowboard ;D (I managed to type half a reply to your last email this morning and saw the replies to my thread when I went back in to continue the email)

    So that was a broken connection at the plug in the engine bay yes? I'll have a good old nosey in there later on and see what I can find.
    #10
  12. Woorlord
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    Woorlord shifting to Hyperspace... . VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    When measuring Ohms - Open Circuit is a high impedance and is usually registered on a DVM as "Overload" or "OL" or "infinity" or 10MOhms or 100MOhms, etc.
    A short circuit is 0Ohms or a couple of Ohms at the most.

    Suggest you measure across the Lamda sensors with plug disconnected - wire descriptions below.

    G131/Z30: Oxygen sensor (O2S) 2 Behind Three Way Cat convertor (TWC)
    The lamda sensor/heater has 4 wires,
    T4c/3 = grey =Lamda sensor G131
    T4c/4 = black/white = Lamda sensor G131
    T4c/2 = white = Heater element Z30
    T4c/1 = white = Heater element Z30

    T4c is 4-pin Connector - brown - connector station Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) (firewall)

    G108/Z28: Heated Oxygen Sensor (H02S) 2
    The sensor has has six wires,
    T6a/5 = grey = other side of Lamda sensor
    T6a/1 = green =Some other component - not sure what the symbol is [circle iwth equals in??]
    T6a/6 = black = one side of Lamda sensor G108 - same as T6a/2
    T6a/2 = black = one side of Lamda sensor G108 - same as T6a/6
    T6a/4 = white = Heater element Z28
    T6a/3 = white = Heater element Z28

    T6a is 6-pin connector - black - connector station Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) (firewall)
    #11
  13. dsmclark40v
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    dsmclark40v Member

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    [Mar 29, 2011]
    That's a good point sending it with the snowboard as it will save on postage!! :)

    Yeah the wire had just broken off where it joined the connector, was just after I had the clutch done so my guess is they might have given it a tug by accident. so using a pair of narrow headed tweezers took the pin out to try and bodge it back on and then dropped it straight down the back of the engine! luckily audi are round the corner from my work so just popped round there and found out the part number of what I needed. They didn't have any in stock but luckily as I have bought so many parts from them the guy went and robbed one from someone's tool box for me
    #12
  14. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Apr 8, 2011]
    I had a quick look at the plugs (all 4 of them) in the engine bay but didn't see any broken wires so I'll check once again when it's not raining and I can get it up on ramps (small metal ones, not fancy 4 post lift), hopefully at the weekend.
    I'll also try to study woorlord's instructions for checking the impedance. I know it's English, I recognise some of the words. I'm f****** if I can figure out what exactly I have to do with the 2 metal probes hanging off my multimeter though :redface:
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 8, 2011
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  15. Woorlord
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    Woorlord shifting to Hyperspace... . VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 8, 2011]
    How to use your DVM:

    1. Set the range to Ohms.
    2. What is a short circuit? Touch the two metal probes together and this will register a short circuit on the meter with a reading of around 0 Ohms or very close to it like 1 Ohm or 2 Ohms.
    3. What is an open Circuit? With the metal probes not touching anything this is an open circuit - the reading will be very very high approaching infinity Ohms (a bloody big number)
    4. What is resisitance? This is a value between a short an open circuit and depends on what you measure across. example, put the p[robes in your sweaty mits and the moisture on you skin will pass electricity and register a resistance on the meter, maybe something like 5 Mega Ohms. Conductive metals obviously have this conductive property, so will register a low resistance, hopefully less than 5 Ohms.

    Here endeth the lesson!
    #14
  16. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Apr 8, 2011]
    Thank Christ. You superstar. thanks mate :)
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  17. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Apr 19, 2011]
    Woorlord, I was going to give this a go today but I'm not sure which combinations of wires I should be measuring across. If there was 2 wires I'd be sorted but with multiple wires for each sensor that's a lot of combinations and I don't know if I should be expecting a resistance from all of them? sorry to be an idiot.
    cheers
    nj
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  18. Woorlord
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    Woorlord shifting to Hyperspace... . VCDS Map User

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    [Apr 19, 2011]
    Thought it was obvious!!!

    G131/Z30: Oxygen sensor (O2S) 2 Behind Three Way Cat convertor (TWC)
    The lamda sensor/heater has 4 wires,

    Pair 1...
    T4c/3 = grey =Lamda sensor G131
    T4c/4 = black/white = Lamda sensor G131

    Pair 2...
    T4c/2 = white = Heater element Z30
    T4c/1 = white = Heater element Z30

    T4c is 4-pin Connector - brown - connector station Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) (firewall)


    G108/Z28: Heated Oxygen Sensor (H02S) 2
    The sensor has has six wires,

    Pair 3......
    T6a/5 = grey = other side of Lamda sensor
    T6a/6 = black = one side of Lamda sensor G108 - same as T6a/2

    Pair 4......
    T6a/4 = white = Heater element Z28
    T6a/3 = white = Heater element Z28

    Measure the above 4 pairs as a start, also check reverse polarity, i.e. swap the test leads over and hopefully should be the same reading.
    #17
  19. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Apr 19, 2011]
    well now that you say it, it does seem blindingly obvious.. erm... :)
    thanks mate. I'll give it a bash
    #18
  20. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Apr 26, 2011]
    Typed a big message, hit send, was told token expired.. lost the message.. when will I learn to refresh the page if I walk away and come back to continue typing later?

    I think i've traced the issue to the lambda wiring rubbing slightly against the prop shaft. When the milltek was fitted and the cats welded in the lambdas have ended up pointing up as can be seen in this picture. So I've emailed the pic to the place who fitted it to see what we're going to do. Granted it was a bugger of a job to fit these cats but it can't be left like this. I'm wondering if he can drill a new hole, weld on a nut and block the old hole? How precise does the location of the lambda sensor need to be?

    [​IMG]
    #19
  21. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Aug 7, 2011]
    since the below the garage took the car in and moved things slightly. they also advised that that wasn't the issue. the wiring was worn elsewhere. I think he may have accidentally swapped the plugs round judging by the plus below because suddenly B2 S2 becomes B1 S2 and vcds seems to have picked up on the swap.
    I still haven't decided if I need new lambdas or EML eliminator gizmos will do since the rear lambdas apparently have no bearing on the fuelling and just check that the cats are working. my cats aren't standard and I know they're nearly new so I have no doubts that they're working ok and will do for a long time.

    17530 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B2 S2: Open Circuit
    P1122 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
    17548 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S2: Internal Resistance too High
    P1140 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
    17522 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2: Internal Resistance too High
    P1114 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
    19718 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S2 / B2 S2 Connections Swapped
    P3262 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
    #20
  22. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [May 2, 2012]
    aww bucking follocks. Got three codes again randomly this evening, even though I changed both front lambdas very recently. so that's 4 fairly recently lambda sensors and the cats are about 2 years old. When I started the car this morning it felt quite lumpy for a few minutes but then it smoothed out. So fek knows what's going on. I need to work out what could cause the engine to choke and trigger this.
    aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

    17530 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B2 S2: Open Circuit
    P1122 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
    17548 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S2: Internal Resistance too High
    P1140 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
    17522 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B1 S2: Internal Resistance too High
    P1114 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
    #21
  23. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Jul 18, 2012]
    Right, I think I may be a bit special as I'm not getting on too well with this.

    Driver's side rear (4 wire) - getting 11 ish across the white wires and meter is staying unchanged at 1 across grey and black/white (meter sits at 1 as soon as I turn it on to ohms). So that's a reading across the O2 sensor right? and nothing from the heater circuit?

    Passenger side rear (4 wire) - getting 50 ish across the whites. meter staying at 1 across grey and black/white.

    and I'm stumped with the front two. they're 6 pin but 5 wires each as below. so I don't even know what the hell to measure
    1 black
    2 blank
    3 grey
    4 white black stripe
    5 yellow
    6 red

    [​IMG]


    #22
  24. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Jul 19, 2012]
    hang on.. looking back a few posts it seems that my meter should be registering a stupidly high number when there's an open circuit, like when the probes aren't touching anything. so why's mine saying 1? It's a cheap multimeter but it must be total ****e.. or more likely I'm special. But how far wrong can a man go just turning the bloody dial to ohms?
    #23
  25. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Jul 19, 2012]
    [​IMG]
    #24
  26. Woorlord
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    Woorlord shifting to Hyperspace... . VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 20, 2012]
    That I in the DVM display on the left of he display probably means overload or infinity - like a high number!
    so DVM working Ok
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2012
    #25
  27. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Jul 20, 2012]
    cool. thanks mate. so that would suggest open circuit on both the front sensors in the heating circuits?

    And I haven't got a clue how to test the rears. any ideas?
    #26
  28. Woorlord
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    Woorlord shifting to Hyperspace... . VCDS Map User

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    [Jul 21, 2012]
    Also looking at your DVM picture you should use the 2000k Ohm range for verifying open circuits as you are looking for high numbers and use the 200 Ohm range for measuring short circuits as you are looking for low numbers. The meter may well automatically indicate a left sided 1 if the displayed value exceeds the display range and this could indicate a false reading.

    The six wire connections rears? You need to check the heater connections which are the white wires - but you say there are no two white wires??

    You could gamble and buy a new sensor and then check the measurements between new and old sensors and confirm if they are the same or different. Same measurements means good and you've wasted your money. Different then faulty sensor.
    #27
  29. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Jul 21, 2012]
    sorry. I'm a tit. the 4 wire connectors are for the rears. the 5 wire/6 pin connectors are for the fronts. And I have 2 spare fronts that I took out while putting the Milltek on so I should be able to check them against those in the car right now. I really should have a spare rear somewhere too as I swapped them both when one was very definitely knackered.

    thanks for the multimeter tips by the way. I'll report back with my findings.

    For some reason the EML has stayed off since I was in checking with the multimeter and reset the codes again a couple of days ago so it can't be an open circuit owing to a physical break I would think... unless it's a break within a wire's sheath and my fiddling compressed it again to complete the circuit. hmmmm..
    #28
  30. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Sep 14, 2012]
    I swapped the b2 S2 (rear left) sensor for the old one that I found in my garage. rest codes, drive.. fine until engine at running temp and not immediately but at some time after that on goes the EML and a scan reveals
    17530 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B2 S2: Open Circuit
    P1122 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
    17548 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S2: Internal Resistance too High
    P1140 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON

    So the problem has to be plug to that sensor or wiring somewhere from the plug to ECU right? although that doesn't really bear thinking about. I find it hard to believe that my old sensor and new one would both have an open circuit issue. failing yes, open circuit unlikely.
    So now I'm kind of stumped as to how I can check for an issue at the plug. any thoughts?
    #29
  31. InFlames
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    InFlames New Member

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    [Jan 27, 2013]
    Hi! I have almost the same problem :(
    My car is a A4 2.0 liter engine, ALT sedan 2001
    There is two recurring error in Engine. I also linked what suggest ross-tech wiki

    16804/P0420/001056 - Catalyst System; Bank 1: Efficiency Below Threshold

    Possible Causes
    • Leakage in Intake and/or Exhaust System
    • Catalyst faulty
    • Oxygen Sensor(s) faulty
    • Oxygen Sensor(s) Control faulty
    Possible Solutions
    • Check Intake and Exhaust System for Leaks
    • Check Catalyst
    • Check Oxygen Sensor(s)
    • Check Oxygen Sensor(s) Control
      • Perform Oxygen Sensor(s) Aging Check

    17544/P1136/004406 - Fuel Trim: Bank 1 (Add): System too Lean


    Possible Solutions
    • Check Mass Air Flow (MAF) Sensor
    • Check Fuel Pressure Regulator
    • Check Fuel Pump
    • Check Intake/Exhaust System for Leaks
    • Check Secondary Air Injection for Leaks
    • Check Vacuum Lines for Leaks
    I have checked both O2 (lambda) sensor's heater resistance.
    lambda_drw.JPG lambda_drw2.JPG


    G130 (4 pin connector) lambda probe's resistance between 2 and 1 pin was 8 Ohm around ~ 5°C I think this is OK
    G39 (6 pin connector) lambda probe's resistance between 4 and 3 pin was 2,7 Ohm around ~ 5°C Is this resitance OK?
    G39 had a cap, I took off and take measured. I find it is the 6 and 2 pin was 107,9 Ohm around ~ 5°C

    IMG_0233.jpg

    Measuring Block 006 field 4 Lambda was -3,1%

    Last week was -4,7%

    Lambda.JPG

    I also find a manual. O2_Sensor_Testng_DIY V2.pdf
    group 33.jpg

    In field 2 I had a readout of ~1,5 V, wich is out of spec 0 V - 1 V. What is wrong?
    group 33 evaluation.JPG
    group 33 evaluation 2.JPG

    That's it until now.
    Any thoughts?

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
    #30
  32. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Jan 29, 2013]
    Well mine turned out to be the sensor after all. I was convinced that wouldn't be the case having replaced CATs and then all sensors but somehow one died and was giving me an open circuit. Have your CATs been changed at all? How many miles on the car or on those CATS? (maybe it's just one CAT on a 2.0 though). When were the lamda/O2 sensors last changed?

    From those errors you have the most likely culprit is going to be a lambda/O2 sensor every time. I'm not great with measuring resistance to establish the exact cause of the problem but my recent experiences would suggest it's a lambda. If you're getting iffy readings that's the first thing I'd replace. If it hasn't been done before it's probably due anyway. And if you end up having to change the CAT you will want to change the lambdas too at the same time so doing one or both lambdas to start with wouldn't be a bad idea. MAF is a possibility but again... my past experiences messing about with these codes make me feel kind of stupid for wasting time and not just buying a sensor. Of course with 4 sensors on my car that can get very expensive.
    Sorry I'm not a guru. I can only make suggestions based on my own experiences.
    good luck
    nj
    #31
  33. InFlames
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    InFlames New Member

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    [Jan 29, 2013]
    The 032 group field one value should be in -4% -- +4%
    The 033 group field two value shold be in 0V --- 1V
    What has effect to these values?
    032 groupe lambda.JPG 033 groupe lambda.JPG
    Thank you for your advice.
    There is ~198.000km in the car, I don't know if there was replacet CAT or O2 probe before.
    There was high oil consumption (10w40 castrol, ca 7dl/1000km), we replaced the pistonrings.
    The error code was existed in that time also. Someone told me it is because the high oil
    consumption and will stop after piston ring change. After piston ring change I put 5w40
    castrol, the consumtion went down but still need to fill up a little (ca 3dl/1000km)

    I just wonder if need to replace O2 probe or not, and if need wich one to start.
    I don't want to waste my money for noting.
    #32
  34. fourcircle
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    fourcircle nj

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    [Nov 19, 2013]
    I have my 2 codes again just 13 months after replacing the rear left sensor. WTF? I must be running very rich on the left side to mess up the sensors so often.

    17530 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Heating; B2 S2: Open Circuit
    P1122 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
    17548 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor; B2 S2: Internal Resistance too High
    P1140 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent - MIL ON
    #33

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