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2nd to 3rd gear change grind/crunch

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by AL_B, Jul 17, 2003.

  1. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    In addition to the ESP and ABS warning lights coming on during last Sundays drive, my S3 decided it didn't like fast changes at high revs (5000-6000rpm) from 2nd to 3rd, and showed its disapproval by making a crunching/grinding sound as the gear slotted home into 3rd.

    This isn't the first time this has happened. The car first showed this problem at around 11500 miles (currently on 13000). I notified the dealer of this when the problem first occurred. When my car was in a few weeks ago for the coil-pack upgrade, they investigated the problem. The result was, they bled the clutch, in the hope it would solve the problem. It helped for a short while, but within a few days it occurred once or twice again.

    On Sunday it was doing it on every gear change at 5000-6000rpm. Yet on the drive home, it didn't do it once.

    Obviously with this sort of problem, you wonder if you are changing gear properly. But, on reading the TTForum.co.uk and searching on VWVortex, it seems like its a common problem with VW/Audi gearboxes. And is probably a faulty syncromesh.

    Anyway, this is another problem that my dealer will have to look at.

    Anyone else had this problem?

    AL
    #1
  2. MOSSY
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    MOSSY Member

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    AL

    Whats the gearbox fluid thats in it at the mo? it might be worth trying castrol syntrax as I had a problem like this when I had the Evo. found it was a big differance with the castrol.

    I to have noticed this in my S3 but on the odd occasion and just put it down to be myself being lazzy. I will keep an I eye on it.

    As for the coil pack change, was this a factory recall or have you had a problem?

    Cheers

    ste.
    #2
  3. AndyS3
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    AndyS3 Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    When my car was in a few weeks ago for the coil-pack upgrade

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Sorry AL not on the subject u have posted, but can u take your car in to get your coilpacks upgraded or did u have a problem with them to get them upgraded.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue_out.gif
    #3
  4. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    AL, its sounds like there is definatley a problem with ur gearbox or linkages. My car has just clocked up 15k on it and have never felt a single gear crunch regardless of the type of driving im doing.

    I had my (the cars ok) coilpacks replaced today as a precaution. None of the originals had ever failed but i didnt want to be in a situation where i end up breaking down thanks to the boffins at Bosch who made a dodgy batch on friday night.
    #4
  5. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    RE: Coilpacks

    I'd been experiencing a hesitation problem around 3800rpm. Car would be on boost accelerating then, for a split-second, it would loose boost stop accelerating, then back on boost again. I nearly had a nasty accident because of it on a 3rd gear overtake.

    It could have been a variety of things: DV, MAF, N75 etc. I'd replaced the DV for a new OEM one to rule that out.

    Anyway, I asked my dealer if they would upgrade all my coil packs to the latest version, so as to rule out a faulty coil-pack. It seems to have done the trick, I've had no hesitation since the coil-pack change.

    AL
    #5
  6. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    Al, mine's just started doing the same thing! 2nd-3rd!

    Going in the dealer next week so I'll let you know!
    #6
  7. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    Mine does the same, so I'd also be interested!
    I've got no warranty so I hope it's not too expesive to fix!
    #7
  8. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    Just spoke to my dealer about the problem. In his opinion it sounds like a syncromesh problem, but feels it will be better to replace the whole gear-box rather than repair it. Thank goodness my car is still under warranty.

    But I've got to reproduce the problem in front of them first.

    AL
    #8
  9. ianmack
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    ianmack Member

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    FEK!!! Mine is doing the same and I've been told by the dealer there's no problem with it..I'll be interested to see how you get on.. Keep us posted AL!

    Ian
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  10. ianmack
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    ianmack Member

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    FEK!!! Mine is doing the same and I've been told by the dealer there's no problem with it..I'll be interested to see how you get on.. Keep us posted AL.

    Ian
    #10
  11. ianmack
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    ianmack Member

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    Nice one Al!!

    I've been to dealer with same problem and I'm pretty sure I would have to turn water into wine before they would change my gearbox under warranty to resolve. I'm sure there will be a few interested punters going back to the dealer from here if you get the gearbox swapped out.
    Keep us posted!

    Ian.
    #11
  12. ianmack
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    ianmack Member

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    Sorry about the posting frenzy!!!! I think the site/PC may have bombed out on me!! Anyways it will help me lose the newbie tag!
    #12
  13. audi_girl
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    audi_girl Active Member

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    Me too Ian - mine is crunching intermittently, but the dealer can't re-create the problem /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
    #13
  14. DaveCav
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    DaveCav Member

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    Went out yesterday with Audi did it once will out so guys going to get them to replace gearbox under warranty!!
    Then at the end off the test drive he started telling me how i should chip it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif So out came the old SP1 and off we were again for nice blast!! Needless to say the guy loved it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #14
  15. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    peanut,

    Thanks for the information. Mine is the opposite, the grind appears less frequently when the car has just come up to temperature. But consistently grinds when everything is really hot.

    Not been to the dealer yet with mine, as I'm extremely busy at work. Arrrggh!

    AL
    #15
  16. DaveCav
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    DaveCav Member

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    Mines in at the moment !! If they change my boost pipe AL will it be a better one than standard or just replace with new standard one?
    #16
  17. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    Hey AL

    No probs.
    Before, I could go on a 3 hour drive in mine and it would still grind it's way into 3rd every time. I think the guy's theory was that because the car (inc gearbox) had been allowed to warm itself up for a significant amount of time but without being driven (ie the engine was running but nobody attempted to change gears / drive it for 2 hours) the bonded syncro ring etc got warm and just freed itself up naturally. I am assuming that if the gear box was being used during this warming up then it would not have chance to settle in this way. That's how I understood his explanation / theory anyway.

    I really would be interested to hear if somebody else afflicated with this problem gives this a try, and how they get on.
    #17
  18. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    I think there is still an underlying problem with the gearbox in the first place coz they should no way have a slightly seized internal part. Hopefully Peanuts cars will be ok now. But do bear in mind that warming up the car is highly unrecommended due to excessive under bonnet temperatures.
    #18
  19. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    I agree with your first point Mo. There is clearly some sort of design flaw if this is happening to so many people, and how long before mine seizes again? I also think that there's a just as high a likelihood that a new gearbox will develop the same symptoms under warranty.

    I don't know enough to comment about the leaving the car with the engine running / idling being a bad idea - he may well have had the bonnet open? One thing I do know though is that if you've got a VAG problem that you can't resolve via your usual channels this is the guy to go to, so whatever he does, I trust him.

    I would recommend him confidently to anyone. He's in Leek in Staffs by the way - I travel 45 mins from South Manchester to get to him, so it must be worth it! Not sure how local this is to you Mo as I notice you're also in the North West.
    #19
  20. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    Im near manchester airport. If u read the owners manual its does state that the car shouldnt be warmed up prior to driving off. I believe its something to do with the turbo getting too hot and not having any airflow from the outside to cool it.
    Im not doubting this guys abilty to work with VAG cars im sure hes more experienced than many of the dealers some people use.
    #20
  21. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    I'm in Altrincham Mo. Small world eh?
    #21
  22. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Sure is !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    #22
  23. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    Peanut?? strange name tho! Is it a polite way of saying ur a bit 'Nutts' ? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif
    What car have u got? any details ??
    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #23
  24. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    I'm just a bit dry-roasted from all this hot weather.
    I have the best S3 in the North West. What about you?
    #24
  25. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Ok, really I have an S3 in Mineral Grey (2001 facelift, 210 model) with:

    Ali mirrors
    Sunroof
    Silver Leather
    Heated seats
    Cruise
    Bose + 6CD
    Reverse Park
    Centre Armrest, cup holder style
    Luggage net
    REVO SPS 2
    11.5K miles on the clock
    + Half a tank of Optimax

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/groovy.gif
    #25
  26. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    Ok completely off topic here but heres the spec:

    2001 S3 210 model Silver Met
    Cruise
    BOSE
    Sat Nav
    DVD
    DAB
    12 CD changer
    Privacy tints
    H&R Coilovers
    Custom tiebars
    Heated seats
    Alu mirrors
    Parking aid
    LED front side lights
    Blue dash illumination
    Forge DV
    Revo SPS3
    BMW luggage net /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    14k
    oh & 1/4 tank of optimax

    erm cant of anything else /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heart.gif

    #26
  27. DaveCav
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    DaveCav Member

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    Al asked question above do you know m8

    Thanks dave
    #27
  28. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    Actually AL's question has been answered and he's just waiting to take his car in to the dealer when he finds some time form work.
    Does that answer the question ??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile_smoking.gif
    #28
  29. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    I also have a Forge DV, but, ok Mo, you win our game of "S3 Spec Top Trumps".

    You know (sorry for being off topic) since I got my Grey beauty a few weeks ago I've seen about 8 S3's, 6 in Mineral / Dolphin - and there was me thinking I had a rare colour! Don't really care - looks so great with the silver leather.

    Anyway, no doubt I'll drive past you one of these days.
    Actually, wouldn't mind checking out your suspension set up and privacy glass at some point.

    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #29
  30. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    Dave,

    Sorry bud, wasn't online much yesterday. If they are replacing your intake pipe, they may well just replace it with a standard one. But, I think some folk have had them replaced with a strengthened one - I think MO has had this done. So it all depends on whether your dealer knows that there are strengthened (i.e. non-collapsing) OEM intake hoses.

    Peanut/MO,

    Guess you both know I'm in the North West too. Whats the name of this quattro specialist in Leek? Sounds like a name to know for those "second opinion" moments.

    AL
    #30
  31. Adam
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    Adam Member

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    Hi

    not exactly Columbo level, more Miss Marple... I reckon there is only one of these in the country:

    an S3 in Mineral Grey (2001 facelift, 210 model) with:

    Ali mirrors
    Sunroof
    Silver Leather
    Heated seats
    Cruise
    Bose + 6CD
    Reverse Park
    Centre Armrest, cup holder style
    Luggage net
    bugger all miles

    glovebox = /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh_roll.gif as I said never ever tried to lock it but glad its sorted

    so you switched to Revo from APR (hope you got the free upgrade) - do you notice any difference?
    #31
  32. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    Guys,

    Not being nasty or anything, but can we return to the original topic of the thread please.

    Feel free to start a "who's got the most spec'd S3" if you want.

    ta

    AL
    #32
  33. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    Well then chaps, took my car to the dealer yesterday.

    Master Tech, drove my car and reproduced the crunch problem. It even did it on a fairly leasurely gear change at around 5000rpm. Not even ragging the car.

    Anyway, as said before, the gearbox crunch is a common problem, and is to do with synchromesh in the gearbox.

    Audi normally solve the problem by replacing the gearbox with a new one, they never strip them down and fix. But even new gearboxes are likely to exhibit the problem over time. But because the guys at <the dealer> know I'm an enthusiast, and just couldn't put up with this problem (some owners do just put up with it) there is another solution.

    The master tech knows of an ex-rally mechanic who now works at Audi, who can strip the gearbox and fix the problem.

    So the plan is:

    1) replace the gearbox oil for some fully synthetic stuff. Just to see if it reduces the problem.

    2) strip and rebuild gearbox.

    3) if 2) doesn't solve, I guess replace with a new gearbox.

    That's it for now, I'll keep you posted on any developments.

    AL
    #33
  34. peanut
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    peanut New Member

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    Thanks for the update Al.

    BTW, mine's back to how it was again (sob). So everyone please ignore my previous advice.

    #34
  35. Mo-S3
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    Mo-S3 Member

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    Nice one Al, at least they have given u a few options to get the problem fixed and not sent u on ur way.
    <dealer> once again ..above and beyond the call of duty. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
    #35
  36. DaveCav
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    DaveCav Member

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    Got my car back on Friday and they have put me a brand new clutch in ?? Sorted!
    #36
  37. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    Carl,

    Print this thread mate, and show it to them. Have a search on Audiworld and vwvortex too - there are plenty of VAG cars with this same problem.

    Also, why would my dealer say "Yep, common problem on S3's and TT's. First we'll change the gearbox oil (done), and then if its not fixed we'll either replace the gearbox or rebuild it". All under warranty.

    I get the impression your dealer is trying to take you for a ride. £3500!!! Sounds a bit steep to me. I would imagine, new gearbox £900 approx, labour £400 approx. So about £1300 plus VAT. Thats my guess, but I could be wrong.

    Also, contact Audi UK, there is no way this is a wear-and-tear item IMO. This is a performance car, that should be able to cope with gear changes between 5000-6000rpm.

    AL
    PS: Sorry, if that came across as a bit of a rant. I'm not ranting at you. I'm just stunned that your dealer won't cover this under warranty, yet mine (and others) in the UK have done.
    #37
  38. Administrators
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    Administrators Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Carl Mate said:
    Hi Guys.

    I have an Audi S3 2001 model with just over 8000 miles in the clock. I brought this car second hand from the audi dealer in feb03 with 5000 miles on the clock.

    At high revs my gearbox crunches into 3rd gear. Dealership have looked at this and said its sounds like syncromesh problem, which is what i thought. Now car is still under warranty, but garage are telling me thats its down to wear & tear, and that i have to pay for it. £3500... I am very worried and upset about this, as there is no way i expect an audi s3 gearbox to fail like this. I dont even give the car much stick as i live in jersey and the speed limit is only 40MPH. And if its down to wear & tear i guess i can expect it to fail in another 8000 miles.

    If anyone can help, make suggestions etc that would be very helpful. I have found other people with this issue 2nd- going into 3rd gear, just really want to know how it was fixed or left.

    Thanks for your time

    Carl

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Carl,
    I'd try another main dealer... one that doesn't want to bend you over and......
    #38
  39. AL_B
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    AL_B Active Member

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    Carl,

    How many years warranty does/did your car have? 2 years manufacturers and 1 year dealer?


    Anyway, I had a chat with my dealer yesterday about your difficulties and what advice they may have for you.

    Basically, your dealer has to go through a process of elimination before they can put a warranty claim in. The process should be something like...

    1) Demonstrate the problem to them. You driving.

    2) They should ask you if you've badly timed gear changes which may have caused the gearbox to go faulty.

    3) They should ask you if you've regularly missed gears, causing the big crunches

    4) If you can categorically and honestly say no to 2) and 3) the above, then...

    4) Dealer should investigate (or get a third party to investgate under warranty - they can claim the cost back apparently under warranty) the problem. The first step in investigation should be (like they've done with my car) is empty the gearbox oil, and check the oil for swarf (bits of metal). Big bits = you've probably badly crunched the gears on a regular basis. Minute bits = general wear and tear, no abuse.

    5) Replace the gearbox oil with fully synthetic oil, and re-test.

    6) If problem still persists, strip and rebuild gearbox OR completely new gearbox.

    I'm not sure what the deal is if you are in the dealer warranty period. Its probably the case that the dealer themselves would have to cover the costs - which is why they are probably being unhelpful IMO.

    My dealer said that you should ask Audi UK to put you in touch with your area representative. Explain your problem to him, and get him to speak to the dealer and help resolve the issues.

    Finally, when I told my dealer how many miles your S3 had done (8000 miles right?) he was shocked. And said that unless the dealer can prove that you've abused the gearbox (i.e. big bits of swarf) then its most certainly a warranty job, in his opinion.

    So get your dealer to drop the oil, and stand over them whilst they do it. Get your hands in the oil and check for bits.

    As a guide, there were no big bits in my oil at all, but only the odd spec of metal, glinting in the light. Tiny little things, but not much.

    Hope you get it sorted.

    AL
    #39
  40. Inigo
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    Inigo Member

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    A new S3 gearbox is roughly £4k parts + £2k labour from a main dealer, in london at least. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/burningmad.gif
    #40

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