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20vt fwd lower intercooler hose (pancake pipe)

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Matt82, Jun 21, 2010.

  1. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    anyone here had any experience of changing this part of the system and know how it effects the engine's response?

    ive always thought this had to be a bit of a bottle neckand im going down the route of either making or buying an off the shelf replacement

    gonna be testing the before and after results. im hoping to be able to show torque dropping off less at the top of the range.

    anyone know whats actually going to happen? (on a remapped 20vt btw)

    gotta be worth a few g/s here and there
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  2. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Removed mine, but fitted an FMIC at the same time as doing so, so gains were hard to put down to that.

    The issue with this though, is that all the air lowing through is under pressure, meaning that restrictions don't mean that much.

    Will be interested to see results. A friend of mine is on about buying an AGU 1.8T so keeping my eye in on these sorts of mods....

    LOL.
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  3. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    neuspeed say

    The factory intercooler pipe (located in the passenger side front fenderwell) is squashed down like a pancake due to VW's conservative design constraints. NEUSPEED pushes the envelope with a special high flow intercooler pipe that flows 20% more efficiently than stock. The stock pancake pipe flows 355cfm at 25 inches of water on a flow bench. In comparison, the round NEUSPEED pipe flows 426cfm at 25 inches of water

    and... ive checked some bits with dahlback. they change that particular pipe as part of a stage 2+ mod as well as mod the airbox. worth 10bhp according to them
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  4. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    Oh, I don't disagree that the pipe is Grade A dog turd, but 10 bhp is a big ask.... But that may be under Stage 2+ hardware to be fair.

    Terms like "NEUSPEED pushes the envelope" don't fill me with confidence either! LOL.

    Makes me think of Top Gun for some reason. I hate companies that just use buzzwords to sell stuff.

    Anyway, pancake pipe = rubbish. Change it and lets get some logs to see the difference - I reckon it will make some - but to make the claimed 10 BHP, it will have to flow an extra 8 G/S.

    I will be very interested to see. :thumbsup:

    How you planning on doing it, just replacing it with a generic bit of pipe? That's what I would do personally. The TurboRevs FMIC kit on ebay replaced all of that pipework anyway by taking a new charge pipe down the right hand side of the engine.
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  5. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    nope... pipe plus airbox = their "10bhp" but well see

    using gtech ill be able to plot how the torque output varies before and after

    to do mine id smash together a series of slilcon elbows and about 40 tons of jubilee clips
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  6. Welly
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    Welly VX220 SC Driver :)

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    LOL, :thumbsup:
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  7. Prawn
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    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

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    This interests me too, as I'm going to be doing an FMIC install again pretty soon, but retaining the original charge pipe setup at the back of the bay, basically like Tim has done.

    I looked at replacing the pancake pipe, but obviously it's there to aid tyre clearence on full lock left.

    I'm yet to have a close look at it with the bumper off, but I can't help thinking that with 18's and lowered 65mm it's going to be fairly close, although if there's clearence in there for a straight pipe that'd be awesome.

    take a look matt and let us know how much room there is in there!
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  8. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    time will tell. getting the parts ordered today

    could be ready to go by the end of the week and there is a decent test area just down the road to me for running a couple plots

    all im hoping to see is torque holding a bit higher at high rpm rather than tailing off like a gay little diesel
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  9. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    yup id say 10bhp is total horse poo tbh......... i cant see it being a massive restriction and at best will just reduce lag slightly....although open to being proven wrong....sumat else you can buy from forge for a silly amount of cash :)
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  10. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    read what i said.. 10bhp, according to dahlback is with a modded airbox too, and given they ought to know a thing or two, im giving it a go

    if there is no improvement at all then all feel free to laugh, but i doubt those guys are know-nothing-numpties
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  11. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    appreciate that matt and i do read threads before posting......

    but as i said, i doubt 10 bhp would be possible from that regardless of a definned box or not...... using my noodle obviously, do Dahlback have a reason to sell you this item, perhaps you should start with that thought first then consider the type of restriction your removing....
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  12. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    dahlback arnt selling me anything, im gonna make it!!
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  13. Westy
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    Westy Double Dark Side! Diesel & 8P

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    Matt, what does the modded airbox consist of? I made 3-4bhp (VAG logs) just by smoothing the airbox so It might be possible to get a combined 10bhp out of the box and pipe.
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  14. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    does that defeat the object that you are quoting their figures that they highlight to sell their items..... this aint rocket science matey
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  15. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    it could be possible. i am definately going to enlarge the entry to the airbox. the MAF must be about 20-30% larger than the feed to the airbox, so im going to work on that, then change that pipe

    the way i see it, that "flat pipe" creates a pressure drop. N75 says one thing, the manifold eventually sees something else

    so either freeing it up creates more flow to the manifold, or the turbo works less and the compressed air will be cooler

    eitherway, im aiming to win something. the cost is almost zero and i can verify the results!

    ideally i want to see an extra 5-10 (or more) lbft at the top of the rev range
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  16. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    a pipes a friggin pipe, not rocket science

    ill put a dahlback sticker on the side of it if that make you feel any better?!

    im quoting their figures as im piggybacking off their R&D as such. i thought it could provide a gain, looked for supporting info and dahlback is the closest i can find, so im going to home brew and and verify it myself
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  17. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    fair enough fella...keep us posted

    the bigger air box feed is adviseable on these cars...... positioned to the front bumper if you can (easier on A3)

    What i think regards the pancake pipe is that you need to calculate the surface area of the pipe entering it, then calculate the area of the pancake pipe..... if they are roughly the same then all it is doing is manipulating the air which isnt leading to a restriction in theory as its 'in line' ...sure if air was hitting a brick wall then you may expect resistence, but this isn't a bad shape and it serves a purpose, if i was going to make the effort id just copy Forges version of it as they always claim to over test every part they make...that said i cant see what you could do except re-route or make a bigger (wide) pancake as the width has to remain the same (for clearance)
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  18. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    My point was that you are hanging off their figures and your justification was 'im making it myself'.... which defeats the object of what you are trying to defend
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  19. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    no, thats not my justification at all. i didnt justify anything. the reason im doing it is down to plain curiosity

    is it just me or does none of the rest of that sentance make any sense?

    if it works it works, if it dont it dont, but either way ill post up some pretty plots.

    if i dont gain bee haich pee ill gain knowledge and knowledge is power and it doesnt matter if you win by an inch or a mile, but winning is winning!!
    #19
  20. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!!

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    nope it does make sense but i really have lost the will to explain it to you......

    regardless, good luck with your exploits as i will most likely copy if you do have success
    #20

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