1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

2013 - Which tuning path?

Discussion in 'A3/S3 Forum (8L Chassis)' started by Yohan87, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Until last week I was quite content to leave my daily Bora at a "Stage 2" level of tune, that was until s3dave put his Relentless v3 manifold up for sale.

    The hardware is currently as follows: -

    1.8T AMK
    SFS 3" TIP w/ Jetex Open Cone
    eBay FMIC (To be replaced with a Welly Cooler in a couple of weeks)
    Pipewerx 3" DP w/ De-Cat
    Milltek 2.75" Resonated Cat-Back
    R-Tech Mapped (280bhp / 295lb-ft)

    Now that I've bought the Relentless v3 from Dave, if I was to fit that then I'd want my rods doing at the same time so I'd be leaving the car with Bill (Badger5) for rod and manifold fitting. I'd also replace the SFS TIP with a B5 v2.2 TIP.

    Niki (R-Tech) suggested if I'm keeping the stock K04-023 then it would be worthwhile to fit an uprated actuator, presumably Forge.

    I also understand the benefits of WMI, however I'd rather have my car mapped to run less power and not have to rely on WMI.

    The question is, what sort of gains am I going to see from fitting the above?

    I'm wondering if I'd be as well going for a beachbuggy hybrid given the work involved in fitting the rods/relentless.

    Is WMI essential with a hybrid?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide this advert.
  3. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,142
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    if pushing for higher power wmi to me is an essential a component as a TIP
    if wanting conservative power (which is where I would ask why if wanting hybrid at all?) then tuned appropriately its not essential.. but well advised to
     
  4. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Cheers Bill.

    My thought with the hybrid was allowing it to make similar power as the K04-023, but without being run at it's limits i.e. my thinking was that a K04-023 making 300bhp would be working way harder/hotter than a hybrid making 300bhp?

    Maybe I have that wrong though.
     
  5. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,142
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    it should be possible with all supporting mods yea.. as prawnies demonstrated recently
     
  6. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    335bhp or something without WMI wasn't it? 350+ with?
     
  7. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,142
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    just a little over 300bhp without wmi... dont think it was 335bhp without...
    ask prawny - he was there and its his car after all - lol
     
  8. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ah, I got those figures from his thread.

    So probably stock turbo with no WMI I'd be looking around 300bhp/310lb-ft.
     
  9. badger5

    badger5 www.badger5.co.uk
    Site Sponsor

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    8,142
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    on largeport AGU
     
  10. Broken Byzan

    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator
    Staff Member Moderator VCDS Map User Audi A4 quattro

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    13,020
    Likes Received:
    394
    Well that's wringing the neck out of it, iirc Westy only just got a tad over 300 on standard turbo, but it was brand spanking new build. Can't remember whether he has WMI
     
  11. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,484
    Likes Received:
    2,040
    331bhp without WMI Bill, 353 with, both at 21psi.

    Running at 331 with the WMI switched off and no timing pull, reasonably warm though. Much happier with the WMI running.

    Westy has WMI yes, and even then it only made 300 numbers on a cold morning, during the mapping it reached 296 I believe after prolonged abuse.

    More has been seen from AGU lumps with the higher CR though, Niki did one which was consistently putting out 304 without WMI on a stock turbo, and a small port (but high comp) AUM that made 299 without.

    edit: That's not to put down westys 300bhp at all, anything 290+ on the standard turbo is pretty epic!
     
  12. 16Klappe

    16Klappe I <3 Panda's!
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,796
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    There's no two ways about it, 2013 is going to be a great year for K04 1.8t's.

    With Bills new inlet manifolds, Niki's mapping and Dans hybrid we've got it all in our laps. :beerchug:

    Lets all go out and reap the rewards of everybody elses R&D work :)
     
  13. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Yeah that's what I'd like, something over the 300 mark but without needing WMI.

    Looks like a large port head and a hybrid turbo can achieve that.
     
  14. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,484
    Likes Received:
    2,040
    yea, easily mate. Mine makes 290bhp just on actuator pressure at 1 bar, and was producing 307bhp from 18psi quite happily.

    WMI is still preferable to be honest though, it's just a good thing to have!

    Also remember though, that if you're tuning something like a hybrid, but keeping it conservative on the power, you'll be considerably down on torque compared to a normal ko4. a hyrbid will make 300bhp from very little boost, and subsequently not have masses of torque, where a ko4 will make 300bhp when pushed from lots more boost, and make lots more torque at the same power level.

    Much like a stock 225 S3 with it's ko4 is around 200lbft, where a tuned ko3S car that also has 225bhp will have more like 260lbft, as it's taking more boost to get to the same power levels.

    My hybrid at 300bhp didn't FEEL any quicker than a 280bhp S3 with lots of torque. it was quicker, but it didn't feel like it because it lacked the kick in the back.
     
  15. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Cheers Prawn.

    I think the best thing for me at the moment is to fit the rods, mani, actuator, and large port head then get it mapped again and see how it goes. With those changes alone I should notice a difference and I imagine it will be pretty nice to drive.

    I realise it will struggle to reach 300bhp with the above but the area under the curve should be quite nice.

    At least that way the engine is future proofed and if I wanted to go further i.e. injectors, WMI, hybrid then it should be quite straight forward to do so.
     
  16. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,484
    Likes Received:
    2,040
    Pretty much what westy has dude, he has 300bhp now, but every single thing is in place, including injectors for a hybrid setup on his car.

    Just add in a turbo from Beachbuggy and a map revision and he'd be at 340bhp overnight :)
     
  17. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Sounds like a plan.

    I think my injector DC is actually quite low at the moment so I'm sure there is head room for Niki to play with when I add the extra "flowy" bits mentioned above.
     
  18. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Quick question, when fitting an AGU head can you retain the AMK rocker cover or do I have to switch to bolt down coils to suit the AGU rocker cover?
     
  19. Prawn

    Prawn My other car is a MINI!!!!

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2006
    Messages:
    10,484
    Likes Received:
    2,040
    no, use your rocker cover mate.

    You'll also need to switch the VVT tensioner over from your old head as the AGU hasn't got VVT
     
  20. Yohan87

    Yohan87 Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    12
    Yep that's cool.

    Once I source an AGU head, I'll get Andrew@ALD to port/polish it and port match it to the relentless. Then I'll supply it to Bill so we he fits my rods he can swap the heads over at the same time :)
     

Share This Page