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Discussion in 'The Project Room' started by IN 2 Deep, Oct 14, 2009.
Any news, the suspense is killing me!
Well its pushing 26 PSI & spinning all 4! It should be on the rollers now!!!!! The tuner said he had a 350Hp EVO to do as well and reckons my Audi is in another league. Should have some numbers soon hopefully. I pick the car up tonight so can't wait to see what's it like.
Well I've just got in from picking up the car and drove the 30 miles home with a few detours
My first impressions of the car are hard to put into words without swearing, its absolutely mental, when it comes on boost I've never felt acceleration like it in a car, kind of feels like the car is leaving you behind. I'm so happy with the final results its just like driving any A4 until you nail it. The mapping is flawless and I'm so glad I let someone take care of this, it revs that fast I wouldn't know what the hell was going on!
Big Props to Anthony for his hard work for turning out another monster onto the streets, without your tuning I would have blown it up for sure, Damned impressive considering you've never touched the 034 EFI before, you kids! too bloody clever. But seriously I can't thank you enough buddy, your a true legend.
Enough talk this it what you all want to see:-
This is at 26 PSI, bear in mind that its a non ported large port head, stock valve sizes, stock cams, the torque drops off quite significantly due to the cams I think. There is more power in her yet but if im honest I would say its probably too fast for the road already! But when the time comes, there's more to be had. I'm just stoked it survived!!!!
bloody hell! well done bud,thats a great figure...and braging rights lol,i can just emagine how this thing must shift,when does the boost come in?
again well done!
edit,can see the boost coming in around 3200 and full boost around 3800/4k?
Why thank you sir. I'm so happy. All that hard work was worth it.
Thanks for the kind words! It was a pleasure to tune. The car is a credit to you and the quality of workmanship on this motor is second to none!
Like andy said the car drives like any other a4, then at 4k it goes mental, love the tall gearing in this car even though it rips through them ! Full boost on the road is 4k (25/26 PSI) and starts building boost from 3k, pretty impressive for such a big tubbie.
You WILL want more power ! its addictive ! Bring on the cams , probaly see around 2-300rpm earlier spool and i reckon around 20-30 bhp !
Credit where its due mate, you've have done a cracking job tuning this. I'm already addicted to the noise of the spool & BOV and obviously the big shunt from the torque climbing, but filling it with fuel will soon get tedious but par for the course as they say. I haven't stopped smiling since I picked it up. God knows why Audi/VW didn't squeeze more out of the 20 valvers from the factory as its such a capable engine, lets be honest in stock form they are NOT what I class a fast car, they definitely deserve more than 180BHP or 225BHP for that matter, but wouldn't turn Jap for anything, Euro for the win.
I have done lots of research on cams for these motors, there are lots of options but I think I have found the ones for me, I'm guessing there is more than 30 horses to be had, the stock cam is out of breath at elevated RPM's so they are really holding this set up back, with a few other additions I think we can increase the torque quite dramatically but for now im blown away with the performance of this thing and the noise is pure
I will be back for more!
I need to get mine tuned really soon now.
we need a video or sound clip!
Fantastic outcome mate, very impressive figures, wasnt sure what to expect but thats more!
Bet you cant wipe that cheesy grin off your mug, new toy for a while eh! Ha
So, can you put up a overall spec of the engine with rough cost of the build if you dont mind??? Got me interested in looking into this for next car now!
Its bonkers, alot faster than I had anticipated, still trying to get my head dialled into the acceleration. On the motorway its insane, 70-120 in the blink of an eye.
That Fraken turbo of yours Mark, what you expecting from that? Also are you still on the quest to tune the stock ECU? If so how far did you get with that and what are the issues your still trying to iron out?
I know, I know im working on it. Still a bit gutted i dont have its first dyno on video but hey! I will have something soon I promise.
Cheers dude, I'm over the moon with it, there were times I also wondered if it would ever make the numbers i was hoping for, I have no doubt this would blow the doors of a stock S4 and those B6 V8's wouldnt stand a chance! But yeah as you guessed big smiles and relief really.
I will post a complete spec as it stands now, as for the cost! Well I could add it up but I really dont want to know. It hasn't been a budget build but not open cheque book either, middle of the road I would say. I will post the spec up and let you guys tot it all up but promise never to tell me what it would cost! I did scoop some serious bargains along the way which helped loads & avoided any serious import duties by being a sneeky bugger, obviously getting machining done for next to nowt and doing all the work myself saves thousands! All paid for with overtime & bonuses! Better than lashing it all up the wall down the pub!
So step back 2 years, would I do it all again. **** yeah, worth every penny and that damn car means the world to me after all the long nights freezing my arse off putting it together. The reactions of passengers is awesome.
Well tonight I had my first chav try it on! Bloody Astra VXR sat on my rear bumper at an inappropriate distance, I moved over to let him past but just couldn't let him get away with it. Now usually the lardy A4 wouldn't stand a chance and after all it is supposed to be a Sport Quattro which in my book shouldn't have to move over for much, so I let him floor it and just stayed along side for a laugh, then decided to show him how its done! I was so tired of having Type-R's, STI's, Evo's etc having there wicked way with my A4 so it felt real good to just disappear.
Anyway BS over, Foxmeister wanted to see the spec as it stand and just so happens I had already typed it out for insurance purposes so here it is:-
058 block, bored to 83mm, decked & shaved
Balanced and clearanced intermediate shaft, modified gear
ABF 92.8mm stroke crank, polished journals & dowel pinned timing belt pulley
ARP crank main cap studs
Anti friction crank main bearing shells
Modified piston oil nozzle (cyl 4)
Integrated Engineering 144mm forged H beam rods with ARP 2000 bolts
Calico Anti friction bearing shells
Custom 83mm JE pistons. 8.5:1 CR
OEM oil pump
Fluidamper vibration damper pulley
Southbend 18lb billet steel flywheel & ARP flywheel bolts
ARP head studs
034 Motorsport density line engine mounts
Final assembly 2008cc, blueprinted & balanced to within a gram
AEB 20 valve head. Unported
Supertech Inconel exhaust valves, single groove, stock size.
Supertech Nitride coated stainless steel inlet valves, single groove, stock size
Supertech Ti retainers and seats
Supertech Dual high lift valve springs
Supertech valve keepers
Supertech exhaust valve guides
OEM hydraulic lifters
OEM AJL cams
034 Motorsport Phenolic inlet spacer
Shaved & smoothed big port inlet manifold & AJL throttle body
SPA turbo T3 top mount cast exhaust manifold
Garrett GT3076R 0.63AR turbine housing
Kinetic Motorsport ported compressor housing 0.70 AR
Tial 38mm wastegate
Tial 50mm Blow off valve
Garrett large core front mounted intercooler, custom 2.5 SS plumbing
HKS Super mega flow air filter
034 Motorsport 3 downpipe with integrated dump tube
Custom 3 stainless steel exhaust
V band flanges used throughout
Bosch 044 Motorsport intank fuel pump
Aeromotive fuel pressure regulator
Siemens Deka low impedances 840cc injectors
034 Motorsport billet fuel rail
OEM fuel lines to bulkhead, -6AN lines in engine bay with Earls Ano-tuff fittings.
Southbend Stage 4 OFE SS clutch
Stock 01A 5 speed gearbox, centre diff & rear diff
034 Motorsport density line gearbox mounts
Apikol rear differential front mount
034 Motorsport diff carrier bushes
Reduced throw shifter
Stock Audi Sport dampers with Eibach springs
034 Motorsport Density line front strut top mounts
Fully poly bushed control arms & Anti roll bars
034 Motorsport billet aluminium subframe bushes front & rear
OEM S4 B5 front hub carriers / uprights
OEM heavy duty track rod ends
Brembo 4 piston calipers from Ford GT
Custom Billet steel caliper carriers
ECS Tuning B6 S4 two piece discs
HEL braided lines throughout
ATE Super blue race fluid
OEM RS4 B5 rear calipers & carriers
OEM RS4 B5 rear brake discs
OEM RS4 B5 hand brake cables
OEM S4 B5 front bumper
OEM S4 B5 side skirts with OEM brackets
OEM S4 B5 lower door trims
Stock oil cooler
034 Motorsport power steering cooler
Neuspeed low temp thermostat
-6AN coolant port fitted to cylinder head for coolant feed.
034 EFI firmware version 1.02
Innovate Motorsport LC-1 wideband controller & X-16 AFR gauge
Stock sensors throughout
Modified OEM engine loom
034 Motorsport ECU loom
Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2, 18 8J ET 35 gloss black
Stock Audi Quattro Sport half leathers.
Oil pressure gauge
Turbo pressure gauge
Oh and im still working on the video!
Superb mate, keep on baiting em! Ha.
Thanks for that spec, makes for an impressive read, no disrespect mate but didnt realise it was as much detail in some areas.
Did you do pretty much all the mechanicals yourself???
I sure will, it does feel good having that power on tap. Good thing is that most would not expect it from an A4Q especially with all the odd coloured bodywork attached, it does makes it all that more satisfying.
The build definitely suffered from spec creep and I'm sucker for anything that shines. Crazy thing is I could easily just keep going but I know I must resist and draw a line somewhere but the lure & challenge of piecing together an RS4 wide body is very tempting but I have to stop thinking about it!
All the work was done by me except the machining, balancing & tuning and eventually painting. All on the driveway with a single garage miniature workshop. Kind of glad I can take a small break over the winter, just need to get the paint sorted and chill out. In the meantime I'm slowly getting addicted to Black Op's on the PS3 & GT5 is out very soon hopefully!
Good work Pal good work! I love it when a plan comes together! Remember looking at your proposed spec last October on this thread. I was like "yeah cheers, no way this is happening!". But fair play you cracked it! Just a quick one though as I have to ask. The money you have spent from start to finish on parts plus the price you paid for the car when bought, surely it comes close to B5 RS4 territory? I know that it wouldn't be the same as it would not be as unique as your "megatron" 20v, but I'm guessing that for the money (not time) you have pumped into it, it must be in the realms of 400 bhp RS4. Top work and fair play. My bearskin comes off to you.....
Cheers Ollie, I knew all along this was going to happen, failure was never an option especially after the cash I've dropped in it. But the thought had crossed my mind a number of times during the build but I just dismissed it and cracked on with blind faith. Now this RS4 thing, have we not been there already!?!
But I have to say, whats the fun in just buying an RS4 and following the crowd with the usual MRC remap, milltek etc etc, I wanted something that was a bit different and certainly my own. The V6TT's really don't appeal to me if im honest, they may have a better powerband and sound and and and. But at the rate I destroyed those **** internal wastegates the motor would be in & out all the time, that to me would get boring. Plus the way the torque suddenly hits you in this thing is something you wont get in a stock Audi and its such a buzz. With the next round of mods and tune Im sure this megatron will walk an RS4. I can't explain what the 430 horses feel like, the web in general seems to make out that its tame and boring but that couldnt be further from the truth, most passenger reach for the non existent brake pedal which makes me laugh.
1700 miles now and its blown out both wastegate gaskets, something to keep me busy.
Oh and I have managed to build this for less than an RS4 costs, although the cost of ownership will be similar but at least the A4 is an unknown, you see RS4 and you know its a rocketship.
Ditch the WG gasket and the turbo gasket if you can. I gave up on running a gasket for my 2 bolt WG and just use a thin layer of gasket maker. The standard gaskets are pointles because if just 1 bolt loosens at all you go from a small leak to a huge leak when the gasket blows out.
Hey Mike, Interesting theory and now you mentioned it, kind of makes sense. My T3 gasket is a cometic pressed metal type gasket, I've just ordered two of the same type for the wastegate. Have you tried these or had any issues with this type? Might as you've suggested try the wastegate without gaskets and see how it goes. Thanks man :thumbsup:
Good to see such 1.8T experience being parted over here on ASN.
What an amazing thread. The work, time and effort you put into this car is amazing. I have goosebumps just writing this!
I love your car. It must sound amazing and go like **** of a proverbial shovel.
What I would like to know, is how do you know all this? How to build an entire engine from neigh on scratch? Are you a mechanic?!
I take my hat of to you sir, some feat of art you have there!
Thanks for sharing this with us. Enjoy the ride and i love the fact you showed the VXR the time of day!
Thanks a lot mate it's always nice to hear someone enjoys reading through it all, It did take a while to get to this point but it was worth all the effort and money. It certainly does sound beastly and can embarrass some expensive cars, I saw off an Overfinch Range Rover the other day as well as a Carrera 4S and he was not happy so it can certainly shift.
So how did I learn all this? most of the skills I have picked up over the years playing with cars, motocross bikes, superbikes etc. I also use to repair gearboxes from all kinds of stuff from 16 speed trucks to full on race cars. I'm a time served engineer and have worked all over the place in many different industries and you just pick up lots of tips & tricks I suppose. If im honest though this is my first four cylinder turbo engine and I was willing to take the risk of building it myself, you just learn so much more doing everything and I now know the 1.8T inside out, there is fortunately lots of info out there if you search and this was invaluable as I learnt all the common failure points and worked around them. All the welding was a first for me, I have supervised welding teams in the past and learnt by watching really, its so enjoyable I urge everyone to at least try it, Having the power of the sun in your hand is awesome and TIG welding isn't half as hard as its made out to be.
Again thanks for the kind words and keep checking back in, Im not finished yet! Theres more grunt in there somewhere, Im just taking a break during the worst of the winter and gathering more parts!
Whats your next step?
Well quite a bit actually, although the numbers from the first dyno sessions were very promising there is without doubt more power in there. The biggest issue was the ignition, the OE coils just weren't man enough and the boost was blowing the spark out and starting misfiring like mad, the ignition was retarded quite a bit to avoid this happening, numerous plugs & different gaps were tried as well as playing with the dwell settings, unfortuantely the misfiring couldnt be avoided, so we settled on reduced power output with some safety margin, that said it is set up in waste spark which obviously doesnt help and I think the coils are probably saturated. So first off will be some high output coils and small wiring mod for sequential ignition & injection and hopefully some more aggressive timing.
Other plans are some new camshafts (undecided which yet) & ported AEB head, WMI for safety and I'm currently working on my own inlet manifold with bigger throttle body. Im considering making my own T3 twinscroll manifold in 321 SS to try and reduce lag, just struggling to find a supplier of schedule 10 321, so I will also need a twin scroll turbine housing. After that I dont think there is much more I can do without getting silly, If im honest i dont really want a bigger turbo the lag would too much for me, I think If i make the power Im hoping for (500+) the clutch will have to go also before it gets smoked and i will get a lighter flywheel at the same time. Sounds like alot now I've listed it all and spoilt the surprise! God knows when I will get round to it all but thats the plan so if it all happens there will be some parts for sale on the cheap :icon_thumright:
It took me ages to read but i got there in the end.
Simply amazing mate.
Why we havnt seen a vid yet is beyond me
Yeah there's a lot to read hey, certainly gives an impression of how much work has gone into this car. As for getting video together, still haven't got a camera yet. I'd rather spend the money on bits for the car, lame excuse I know but its true, there are lots of little odds & sods that need tidying up, it all costs money plus Christmas has put an end to car spending for a while. I will eventually get round to it, just not a priority right now.
There certainly is, and i would suggest when you are almost finished (You will never finish, there will always be something you want to do) is get the Project report tidy it make sure you have the best photos etc and get it printed in a book form. I think if you have put in all that hard work you may aswell show off all your hard work where ever you go...
Was going to do this on my R5 build.
I hate xmas for that, i love christmas just not the silly spending. Cars need chrissy presents to!!!!
Yeah good shout, cracking idea on the book. My bro is a keen photographer and once the paintwork is all sorted he is going to snap some decent shots of it. It was never my intention to make a show car of it and it isn't what I would call a show car but it is fairly clean and tidy, I'm sure this winter will have a good go at changing that though!
Xmas certainly gets more and more expensive every year, does my head in really. I've done all my xmas shopping but forgot to get the car something! We'll see if I can stretch to something though. Looking forward for the show season to get started again now, should be in for paint in the new year, should make it look alot better.
Any updates and or vids of this cracking motor car yet fella?
Oi oi, how we doin. Unfortunately still haven't managed to get any video done yet, im so lame I know, I will get this sorted soon!
As for updates, the A4 has suddenly started pumping oil into the coolant, I'm 99.9% sure its that damn awful OEM oil cooler so thats coming out & getting replaced with a mocal air-oil cooler setup. The head is also off and awaiting a pressure test to be sure its not cracked, fingers crossed its just the existing oil cooler & funnily enough it was the first thing the guy said when I dropped it off for pressure testing after I explained what was happening, must have seen this too many times. I will get it back early next week to either reassemble and chuck back on or strip out the valve train and drop them into the spare head which is prepped on stand by.
Whilst its quickly getting sorted out I'm stripping the bumper, skirts, lower door mouldings off for paint, I can't drive around with it in different colours anymore, its getting embarressing! It needs to get done.
So over the weekend I'm gonna fit this little lot.
Other than that its now done close to 5K miles, the engine is stronger than ever, its had a pretty brutal break in after the dyno tune was sorted and pulls like a mofo now, I've been making minor tweaks to the fuel map in areas just too smooth things out a little and the driveability is now awesome, the most responsive car I've ever driven and 4 wheel drifts with ease, scares the **** out of me frequently
I've also added another quattro money pit to the fold, introducing my new daily............
1993 Audi S2 ABY, the force is strong with this one, trying sooooo hard to resist the temptation to go nuts and turn it into a monster!
You changing the HG anyway?
Of course, I never re-use headgaskets once they've been torqued.
ahh right, the head was off anyway, or you removed it to find the crappy oil cooler was the cause of the mayo?
Yeah the head was off already.
Tomorrow I start taking it apart again, got to get this paintwork done.
Anyone want to buy some used S4 sideskirts and an S4 prefacelift rear bumper. Open to offers.
****** to that. If I spent that much time and money on a car I would be eating fried testicles the same night (yes my balls).....Must be nice doing what you want and spending it on what you like (£ too!). AHHHHH sigh, miss the single life sometimes.
Well a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do! Were only here once after all.
We're here for a good time not a long time........
Anyway must dash need to hoover and wash up.
Looking good buddy - Is it stopping alright?
Oi oi, long time no see, how we doing chief? I will make sure I pop in some time soon and take you for a quick spin. The car is in pieces at the mo and finally being painted so I should have it back on the road soon.
The brakes are absolutely immense after I got all the air out of the ABS module, they certainly give me the confidence to drive the car quickly, there bloody noisy though but I guess its to be expected, I wonder if some of those anti squeal shims that sit in the pistons would help? I've considered fitting B5 RS4 fronts to match the rears but the price of the discs has held me back, but for the quiet braking they might be worth it plus the fact they would match the rears asthetically hmmm what to do, what to do.
Paint i hear, hmmm, there was inspiration after all then??? Ha
Sounds good mate, what did you go for, colour change? Any different bits? Look forward to seeing the outcome!
Of course mate, plus the fact im sick & tired of it looking like a scrap heap challenge car, it deserves to look the part.
No colour change just yet its staying silver, I'm only getting the bumpers, skirts, grills & door mouldings done so its all actually silver! So just a plain jane OEM S4 look for me, I have splashed the cash on an brand spank facelift S4 rear bumper & skirts though which I actually got for a fair price. I wish I could find a facelift bonnet for good money to replace my scabby stone blasted one but that will have to wait for now, desperately trying to get everything tidied up before modified live at Oulton park on the 16th April!!! The cylinder head is still on the bench in the garage, still need to fit the oil cooler, fit the body trim, modify the intercooler pipes so the grills will fit into the S4 bumper, change the backbox, tidy up the gauges in the car, a few ECU wiring additions to increase functionality etc etc so lots to do really and the weather just isn't making it easy!
Pics will follow as usual when there's something to see :icon_thumright:
you have simply built a beats, too much wrds to describe it but beast fits in nicly