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2000 v6 AKE /DBG dilemma?????

Discussion in 'A6/S6/Allroad forum (C5 Chassis)' started by dieselmaker, May 9, 2013.

  1. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 9, 2013]
    Hello all, as you see am new here....Long/expensive story short :) I've bought a 2000 A6 AKE quattro some 2.5 years ago "fearly" cheap used it for about 6 months than timing belt snapped than it was settle for about 2 years in my garage....until now.

    When I had it , for a few week I was looking for every noise/ rattle but nothing... I thought yeaaaah what a good deal you had boy :D So I've decide it to pump a huge amount of money for genuine brakes all around, all belt,roller,tensioner etc, koni fsd , and I had it chipped.... unfortunet I left timing belt change as a last thing /but bought a second hand good cond. camshaft set/just in case if we open it up and find out cams are worn....As I have never worked on v6 tdi I've asked my friends-friends how said that he has done as many as 100 of those engine to change the belt/termostat /wp for me... we took rocker covrer off find a lifter and arm just hanging around...Sunday afternoon that was :D so went to Wembley to buy the stuff /£250 I think/ and the car was running the same night....... with terrible noise from top end....I asked him and he said that thats normal????????........I went OK I just hope you know your stuff......Than I had another 2 weeks klap-klap-klap running on the car than timing belt snapped ....

    But now I bought and engine BDG code(will pick up this weekend)-engine was full? rebuilt with bill proven almost £2k worth job, and I would need some opinion.

    First: any structural different inside AKE vs. BDG? Honestly I was searching but couldn't find any useful info...

    Second: Whatever the receiept says still you think to take engine open and change crankbrether/ oil pump (I already have a new timing belt kit-gates-)?

    Before anyone ask I haven't even open the AKE but you can see the tensioner hanging out so I bet it wasn't tight enough or was overtight....

    When I bought the car the IP and turbo was looking nearly new to me so that sould be a straight swap.


    So if you have any pros-cons on BDG engine please let me know.


    Hope the story wasn't too boring!! :)

    Regards
    Roland
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  3. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    So you never took off your heads after first belt snapping? You probably had some twisted valves there and other ****.
    BDG is almost plugnplay, base engine is the same. There are few minor changes compared to the older engines...some sensor sockets are bit different shape etc etc. But you can use stuff from your old engine.
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  4. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Yeah that's why I did some research and find out that just cam kit itself would cost £700ish +god knows what else you find once engine open so complete engine looks better option to me.
    The other thing I did not tell I was travelling 70m/h on motorway- up hill when the belt snapped but took ignition off straight away but believe me that was loud :D

    So what do you think? would you still change oil pump and crank breather all them common things or just leave it alone change oil and timing belt thats it?
    After all however its gonna be I would still find someone how has more knowledge and experience with those engines and show him.
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  5. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    There's lots of swapping from the old to the new engine, buy new turbo gaskets, inlet manifold seals and EGR valve seals. Also the cambelt is different between the 2 engines. If you need a hand let me know- i rebuilt hundreds of VAG engines...
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  6. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    Thanks for offering this Chris .. The good thing maybe this BDG was already fitted to replace same AKE as mine. The shame is I cant hear the engine running as they had the IP gone and somebody was trying to repair with no luck. I know this a little bit of gambling but.... :DDD

    But might be make more sense if I contact you before even start anything or you mean get up and running and after that you could have a look?

    Thanks
    Roland
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  7. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    adamss, atleast engines that are sold to the Finland all engines are with the same cam belt. Maybe in UK you have different belts for some reason...funny thing if it is so.
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  8. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 10, 2013]
    diffas, I remember on 1.9 90bhp- that was one with the alu rocker cover- there was a stronger spec belt so he can be right.
    But I have a spare set of belt for AKE which is 180bhp so if there is no diff in length or teeth should be all right .
    #7
  9. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    180 Bhp cambelts are 2mm wider compared to the 150/155/163Bhp engines, they can be retrofited though to either engine...
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  10. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    Thats good than as I have a spare set-gates-timinbg belt kit for AKE...
    Little update: We got the engine out yesterday-3 hours not bad I think- and its look promising. Original bill says that's a reconditioned engine was done by company near Stratford, the guy said he had 2 week on it than IP gone and it was sitting for a year or so..
    Took some pics I'll try to upload in a minute and tell me people what do you think please....
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  11. dieselmaker
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  12. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    Ahhh file too big need to make them smaller
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  13. dieselmaker
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    [May 12, 2013]
    Ahhh file too big need to make them smaller 
    #12
  14. dieselmaker
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  15. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    Apart from a new water pump it does not look freshly rebuilt at all ? Maybe the sump has been replaced but the cams are still hollow and a ticking time bomb !
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  16. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    This is how you rebuild an engine: genuine solid camshafts, full cambelt kit, all new ancilaries and much, much more !
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #15
  17. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    So you saying that even if- let's say engine was rebuilt and those cam are new I'll take some more photo tomorrow to show the rest- you would swap them to the solid one???
    Is that hollow cams is really that sh&*t?? Even if you'll change oil regular afterwords ? Why is that?
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  18. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    The hollow cams are made of titanium with the rings hot pressed onto the cams, the rings are very thin and snap which make the engine drop valves. This is what happens when it drops a valve:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #17
  19. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
    #18
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 12, 2013]
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  21. dieselmaker
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    [May 13, 2013]
    Thanks for help again Chris.
    What I gonna do I will get this engine in and running than I'll take it down to Chris and have a good sniff around avoid any further damage in the case if I missed something :D
    Than we will see how far I can go with them hollow shafts-fingers cross they are good for another 100k and if its fail in a future I'll still have a chance to rebuild the old AKE or just drop an 1.9 AFN in which I still sits around from previous a4q.

    Thanks
    Roland
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  22. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 13, 2013]
    Yea that looks like you have different type of belts to same kind of engines sold in UK. Quite interesting.
    Atleast AKN, AKE, BDG and AYM are with the same belt, that I know for sure.
    I would use 34mm wide belts next time I change belt to my car. Got any part number for the 34mm belt?

    I did some research...looks like some manufactures are offering 32 and others 30mm wide belt for the same part number. Weird.
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
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  23. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 13, 2013]
    here is some more pics at least was cleaned and painted :DD regarding the belt it has 32mm one
    DSC_0167 (Small).jpg DSC_0168 (Small).jpg DSC_0169 (Small).JPG DSC_0170 (Small).jpg DSC_0173 (Small).jpg DSC_0174 (Small).jpg DSC_0175 (Small).jpg DSC_0176 (Small).jpg
    #22
  24. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 13, 2013]
    If it has 32mm belt then it's a good start, only snag is read the make on the belt- IF DAYCO- discard it immediately as it's known to break at the joint line. If Gates or Contitech and it looks fresh- you can still keep it for a while- if you're feeling brave !!!
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
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  25. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [May 13, 2013]
    Current belt is QH
    #24
  26. dieselmaker
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    [May 26, 2013]
    little update

    got the engine out I will upload some pics.
    The only thing I have stucked with I didn't realised the little plastic cover above the IP sprocket is coming out individually so I made a remover for the sprocket and took it off from IP shaft. Now does anyone know how to put the pump back to "0" or is there any pin you can install somewhere into the pump so you can than put the sprocket back.

    Thanks
    #25
  27. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 27, 2013]
    you going to send the pump to a diesel specialist as there's no way to establish tdc without opening the pump ! As you found out there's no wodruf key on the shaft...
    #26
  28. dieselmaker
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  29. dieselmaker
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    [May 27, 2013]
    yeah but they must have to lock it somehow in the diesel shop isn't it?
    So you if you open it up do you know where is tdc by any chance please?
    #28
  30. dieselmaker
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    [May 28, 2013]
    few update 20130526_132440.jpg that was the old engine timing jumped but belt still not snapped.woooo
    2weeks old belt but only 20mm ish very cheap if anyone interested :D

    20130525_195658.jpg
    That from the new engine!!! not even the original of the 2003 bdg but old ake one /my2000 /. I should really put the name of the company here and show what you get for your £2000 !!!!!


    20130525_195631.jpg

    a free 6mm socket/no name/ with a termostat which is probably the same year as the wp


    20130525_185638.jpg

    new style crank breath filter that's must be all right

    20130527_172047.jpg 20130527_171756.jpg 20130527_172117.jpg
    and that's the old head I could cry.....


















    20130527_172133.jpg

    old crank case- thread came out with the bolt which was overtight

    and this happend on the BDG as well so I need to repair that either heli coil or might be 12x1.25.

    to be honest I prefer heli as one of my friend working as a setter /CNC/ and they use it and he said strong as a hell/ I bet they are not buying the stuff from china/ but never tried myself
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  31. dieselmaker
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    [May 30, 2013]
    No helicoil for sure now! not for this job....
    Chris when you had the same problem what was the next size you used for rethread the oil pump house?

    or is it worth buying a new one?is it pain to change it?


    Thanks
    #30
  32. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 30, 2013]
    I would use a time sert, used helicoil once and it came out ! The crankshaft seal housing is a pain in the proverbial to replace, would have been easier to do whilst the engine was off !
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  33. dieselmaker
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    [May 30, 2013]
    Right, engine is coming out again I've decided to change the flywheel as well /plan was just replace 3 piece clutch / and I want to set back self adj. plate as I've never done it before and no never had problem but I have read trough LUK website and made me think it should it done properly this way....

    Regarding the Time-sert kit does anyone own one /M10x1.25/ which they can lend me?off course I pay for it!

    That's because cheapest I find was something like £250 for a kit and another was for £50 but from usa I think .....

    So if anyone has one please let me know...

    thanks
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  34. dieselmaker
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    [Jun 2, 2013]
    clutch/flywheel changed, engine is in again.
    pump sprocket sorted within I would say not even a degree but a couple of minutes.
    air con pump couplung jammed up after two years thats sorted as well.

    opened the cover up to change rocker gasket and I find this :D

    teng.jpg

    At least I have 25% less chance on cam wear :D

    went to wurth last friday but they did not have timesert in my size so this week ...



    just a quick one.... do I have a lift pump in the fuel tank?if so does it pump the diesel up to the filter with just put the ingnition on a few time?
    or I have to bring it up?/ I think I have the peugeot tits thing somewhere/
    #33
  35. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 3, 2013]
    it looks like you have a couple of solid cams at least which is a good sign, you might not have a lift pump in the tank, easier thing to check is by taking the ecu cover off and look for relay marked 404 which is the lift pump power supply relay !
    #34
  36. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 6, 2013]
    Any updates ? Hope it works for you, just finished a v6 tdi i had on my drive for 6 months...i got it running 2 days ago, just got it taxed and mot'd today !
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  37. dieselmaker
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    dieselmaker New Member

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    [Jun 7, 2013]
    I am mega busy at work during the week ... so will carry on tomorrow.

    I have bought timesert hope thats will be study enough! did you ever try this timesert thing??is it holding up nicely?

    so yeah want to start up this weekend if everything goes well...
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  38. dieselmaker
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    [Jun 10, 2013]
    update..
    Idid not have enough time to finish completely over the weekend but almost there..

    did start it up,bleed the whole fuel line did start easy /so d.pump must be fairly on right place/ but first there was a "clapping" sound coming out from pass.side bank(just with the intake on the rest of the pipe was off) I thought timing on cam was out, double checked it but it was good. as you have a cross on vacum pump side I thought it's 90 deg out but realised there is only one position when it's flush with the cylinder head so problem must be somewhere else..

    Than I put all the pipework ,cooler,front back than the noise wasn't there that much- still noticable slightly from air box but nothing like unhealthy noise like you have something clashing ....

    funny thing is friend have done a allroad same engine last weekend and he has similar noise coming off.but both of us can;t make a same mistake :D to be honest he's one slightly more noisy than mine

    So I think because this engine was sitting around for a year or so might need some times to get the oil everywhere

    OR might be just need to adjust d.timing with vagcom...

    Any other idea?????

    Thanks
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  39. dieselmaker
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    [Jul 2, 2013]
    Here again, A6 was done some 2 weeks ago but been busy to shoot any input here/ seems nobody really cares anyway:D/

    but all back together and I am 90% happy with result.
    Timing was adjusted with vagcom to slightly advanced as I usually like it.

    I have a tiny grey ish smoke on idle and a tiny black on wot but it did not smoke before so I suspect the injectors on new block sh%$£t or they are smaller. I don't know jet.
    I saying that because its runs well but doesn't pull as strong as I remembered. so might need to swap inj's from the old one or slightly bigger one??:D /shame I did not took them out when I had the new engine./

    Lesson learned so far:

    -always adjust the clutch back to "0" most of the v6 should have same sel adj. clutch. my clutch is perfect now.

    -NEVER TAKE THE IP PULLEY OFF :DDD /but it's doesn't matter if you can put it back more or less the same place than you can do the rest with vagcom so not end of the world but IF YOU CAN JUST DON'T DO IT :D/

    -Always buy plenty beer!!! There is a chance you work till late night and dehydratation or whatever they call it dangerous!! :D

    -ahh yeah , TIMESERT looks working fine under the timing belt tensioner!

    all in all I have just sold my 97' silver quattro 5pot and I still think c4 was 100 times better than c5 :) But never mind I'll keep this one for now and I try to find some time to finish my girlfriend's tdi corrado completely ....

    Good luck to all of you..

    Thanks
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
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  40. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jul 29, 2013]
    To be honest, i too used to have a nice black AEL 140Bhp audi c4 but sadly it was FWD and auto, only gearbox gave me trouble in 5 years of motoring and 160k ! Fixed it then sold it to a mate who wrote it off ! I then i bought myself a 98 a4 v6 tdi quattro and it gave me trouble that i turned into a diesel specialist ! Changed the engine because of a blocked breather then had like 3/4 turbo's replaced as i was blaming them ! There used to be so little info about them a few years ago that it defies belief, now with help of the forums there's plenty info online !
    With the new v6 tdi, spend a little and get it faster: larger turbo, larger nozzles and a remap should see you well over 250-280 Bhp and it has better interior than a c4 !
    Here's my new turbo:[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    and a nice new clutch:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    compressor wheel on the far right !
    [​IMG]


    and the turbine:

    [​IMG]


    next to a gtb2056vl
    [​IMG]
    #39

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