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2 dogs fighting, bites, law suit... discuss.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by supanova, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    So a week ago I look out my front window and see this guy wrestling with 2 dogs. his dog...... and my dog. :/ his dog is a huskey and my dog is a rottweiler. has never been vicious and never bit anything or anyone either. anyway as i run out to see what the deal is my dog being mauled by the huskey. a mate of mine that was with me ran to get water and with the first drop on the huskeys head he let go. i look at the guys hand and he has blood. I asked what happened and he said that my dog came sniffing around his dog and HIS dog turned and attacked first. later i learn that he went to A&E and got stitches. also he is planning on claiming agains me.

    my dog is in my sisters name and she recently moved out but left the dog with us as she had no where to put him yet. where does this leave me? I personally think that because there was 2 dogs involved and both capable of biting, whos to say that his huskey didnt bite him by mistake?! baring in mind that he put himself in the path of the fight as he had his arms around his dog trying to release him.

    I just dont want to get wrongly acused or worse my dog get put down for something he may not have started.
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  2. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    If your dog was out loose( which it seems it was) and his was on a lead you could be for some hassle as a bare min.
    Dogs ar animals and will fight, but the onus is upon the owner to be able to prevent it escalating into a fight. His dog was unhappy about yours invading it's space and warned yours away, had you been there you probably would have either prevented the meeting altogether or pulled them away at that point.

    Wait and see, it's not like we as dog owners have 3rd party insurance to cover this, maybe it will be the next big thing...
    Where there's a bite there's a claim..
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  3. sliced
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    sliced Drive safe, stay alive.

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    Check with your car insurance, some offer legal protection on not just cars but for anything else too
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  4. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Do you have pet insurance? If so, it should include third party liability. What I'm not clear about is where your dog was when this happened? If this happened on the street or the pavement - in other words, in a public place - you could be facing some tricky questions about why the dog was seemingly on the loose and not under your control.
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  5. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    nope. no insurance. really it stupidly never crossed my mind about pet insurance until something like this happened. the kids had been playing out the back yard and never closed the garage door behind them, the dog went through the door and out onto the street. ok so I would agree that my dog shouldn't have been ''loose'' but there was 2 dogs invloved how can he prove which dog did the damage? no withnesses. I personally think that my dog wouldnt be a biter. grew up in a big family with kids literally climbing over it and torturing him something serious with no casualties!

    and will it be my sister getting in trouble as the dogs on her name or myself because the dog was at my address?
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  6. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    i fear it would be you. You have assumed the responsibility of keeping the dog under control.
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  7. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    A Dog Owner's Legal Defenses in a Dog Bite Case | Nolo.com

    this ^^ the second part where it says '' Did the Injured Person Know the Risk of Injury?''

    He did place himself inbetween the fight reaching his hands around to try and control his dog. if both dogs where exchanging bites he surely knew that he was at risk?

    :/
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  8. @udi A3
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    @udi A3 Site Sponsor Site Sponsor

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    if he claims your dog bit him, im sure he would need csi style proof of this.

    maybe the posty left your gate open or one of those idiots leaving charity bags that never get collected.
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  9. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    That could be a defence, but as you said, there were no witnesses. The other thing is, the article you posted looks to be USA law. You need to research UK law.
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  10. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    but if your dog wasnt out on its own
    then there wouldnt have been a fight and he wouldnt have been bit
    he put himself inbetween the dogs as he didnt want to see his dog hurt or your dog hurt.
    so really its on you for allowing the rotti to be out.
    and at least it wasnt a kiddy.
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  11. s3Easty
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    s3Easty Member

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    I don't envy you at all mate, bit of a tricky question to answer, it could go either way. although, from what you have said in the OP, I fear in the eyes of the law it would look like, that because your (your sisters) dog was "loose" regardless of how it got there, the ultimate responsibility lies with you..Im not too sure if your sister would be dragged into it because she wasn't present.
    Not trying to put it on you but, because this other guy was the only person present at the time, he is the only one who could give an account of what happened, and he is the injured party..Which wont help.
    I have dogs (staffies) all with insurance, which IIRC is now UK law, which may cause you more issues..All I can say is good luck..
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  12. johnnythepie
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    johnnythepie Active Member

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  13. s3Easty
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    s3Easty Member

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    ^^^^^^^I think that is question answered..
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  14. NHN
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    NHN Modmetractor

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    Dog was loose, its the owners responsibility to keep the pet in check, gate being open was your responsibility as are your kids, so effectively that part of it is down to you, whether you're liable is another thing, are dogs supposed to be muzzled at all these days, if so then that is something to look at, but then again, back to why was your pet on the street without the guardian & no lead etc.

    I personally don't see a claim coming, personal injury etc would be hard to prove on this, as whose to say it was your dog or anyother evidence as in were there anyother people as witnesses, if not then denial is one route, then again if you've got there number & vice versa then does make it harder.
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  15. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What insurance do you have? Some kind of 3rd party or all in one jobbie? Intrigued now.
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  16. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    no pet insurance unfortunately. :/
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  17. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So vet fees covered but nothing for 3rd party injury then
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  18. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    nope. stupidly something that i never even thought about getting. :(
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  19. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    sometimes the claim can come off the house insurance
    i know once my nephew crossed a crossing it was on green a woman knocked him off the bike it was his fault
    she claimed for her car repair from my sisters home insurance
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  20. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    we dont own our house, its a rented housing excutive. been having the worst luck lately. :(
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  21. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    i think youe safe on it anyway

    1 police aint been to see you so its prob not been reported

    2 the new no win no fee rules change would make it not worth there time for such a small claim
    and i doubt he will want to pay solicitor fees to claim against you
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  22. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    he would have to report to police if he took his dog to vets for treatment or the vet would have reported it
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  23. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    see my brother took a call from the dog warden saying that they will be calling out sometime to look at my dog. but no police have made contact.
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  24. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    warden is the same thing really anything amiss they will contact the police
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  25. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    apparently the warden was contacted by the hospital as apparently all bites have to be reported to the warden for records or something like that.
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  26. s3Easty
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    s3Easty Member

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    Its pretty comprehensive, Bit like a fully comp car policy, you pretty much replace cars with dogs. Its not cheap, but an animal, no matter how well trained, is still an animal and can snap if put in a position to do so. Better safe than sorry.
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  27. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    so dog warden shows up to the house this morning and gets my dad in. everyone else is at work. just off the phone with me dad and he said that he was given 2 options. no1. get the dog put down or no.2 get prosecuted. im guessing that just means get fined? told my dad id talk to him later as his phone was breaking up. I understand that there would being done for not having the dog on a lead etc but we havnt heard anything from the biting side of things.
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  28. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    prosecuted could be anything
    they seem to be going hard on dog stuff now
    with the few attacks in the papers
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  29. egesford
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    egesford Member

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    no.3- give the dog back to your sister, and tell the dog warden the dog has escaped. this will most likely work as long as you dont get the dog back
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  30. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    I like your thinking Egesford. im just unclear about the whole biting incedent. havnt heard anything since and IMO it would be pretty hard to determine which dog bit as there was 2 involved and...... he did put himself in harms way/line of the attack.
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  31. egesford
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    egesford Member

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    If they decide it WAS your dog, you will have to put him down. i dont know about claims etc but i do know if the dog has disappeared, they cant make you have him put down. if matey was going to put in a claim, would have thought you would have heard something by now(?)
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  32. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    id forget about the bite as these no win no fee ****** places wont take it on now the rules about paying etc have changed

    could try giveing the dog back to sis but they would still prosecute as its not been put down

    let the dog live any fines get your sis to pay and keep the dog fenced in
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  33. boost-addict
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    boost-addict Member

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    Well you have, they wouldnt put dog down for being off the lead. Which fyi is £80 fine

    Im going to be brutal here but its your own fault.
    I say this because some one near me had there dog get out and bit a child leg quite badly. By all account the dog was also a family dog.
    Same goes for my dog. My son hangs of him and i play fight with him but he understand no stop and ouch , this doesnt mean i trust my dog 100%
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  34. bez101
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    bez101 Yorkshire & Humber Rep.

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    i agree you can never trust any dog 100%
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  35. superkarl
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    superkarl MAN OF STEEL

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    Putting an animal down in this sort of circumstance is completely immoral, whoever thinks that is a good decision in anything other than extreme cases should be shot[HR][/HR]
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  36. boost-addict
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    boost-addict Member

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    All i can say is good luck and seek a solicitor because if it were me in my financial position it would be a very hard choice. But i would find out the maxuim fine and even prison sentence and go from there. A dogs a dog at the end of the day. It just depends how much the fine and sentence could will be


    Just found this

    Controlling your dog in public

    Dog owners are responsible for controlling their dogs' behaviour in public. If you need help with dog training, you should contact a dog trainer

    When is your dog 'under control'?

    A dog is considered ‘under control’ if it is on a lead held by someone able to control the dog. For example, a large dog would not be under control if its lead was held by a child who would be unable to restrain the dog if it strained against the lead.

    It isn't necessary for dogs to be leashed at all times. However, dogs must be kept on a lead in designated pedestrian zones and on land where livestock is present. Councils have bye-laws to indicate areas where leashing is required, such as in public parks.

    Dogs which behave dangerously

    It is an offence to allow a dog to attack or cause serious injury to a person or livestock, or to behave in such a way that makes a person worried that it might attack them.

    Dogs which behave dangerously may be seized by the council dog warden, and their owners prosecuted. The dogs may be destroyed if the magistrate considers that they are a danger to the public.

    Control conditions

    As well as any conditions imposed by a court where your dog has attacked a person or worried livestock, a council dog warden can impose similar conditions where certain breaches of the Dogs Order have occurred (whether or not you are prosecuted for those breaches).

    If your dog has strayed, attacked a person, livestock or someone else’s pet, or been out of control on certain specified roads or on land where there is livestock, a dog warden may issue a notice requiring you to keep your dog:

    muzzled when in a public place
    under control (which means on a lead held by someone strong enough to restrain the dog) when in a public place
    securely confined in a building, yard or other enclosure when not under control
    away from any specified place or any type of place
    neutered (if male) within 30 days of the date on which the notice comes into effect
    The notice may also require you to undergo a course of specified training within a six month timescale.

    If you fail to observe any of these conditions and do not take all reasonable steps to make sure that that the condition is fulfilled, you commit an offence punishable by a fine of up to £2,500.

    When six months have passed from the issue of the notice imposing a control condition (or conditions) you can ask the council which issued the notice, to review the continuing need for the conditions.

    Or you can formally appeal against the imposition of any control condition to a magistrate’s court. You should take legal advice on the procedures to be followed when giving notice of such an appeal.

    If your dog is subject to any control condition you must tell the council which issued the notice, if you intend to sell or give the dog away. You must also inform the council of the name and address of the person you are selling or giving the dog to. Failure to do so is an offence punishable by a fine of up to £1,000.

    What is an 'attack' and what are the penalties for the owner and the dog?

    The definition of attack includes your dog ‘behaving in such a manner so as to cause a person apprehension of being attacked’.

    Your dog does not need to bite someone for you to have committed an offence. If your dog’s behaviour is aggressive or threatening you may be prosecuted. If an offence is committed it is punishable by up to six months' imprisonment and a fine of £5,000.

    If your dog does injure the person attacked, you could be sentenced to two years' imprisonment and a £5,000 fine.

    If your dog worries livestock you are guilty of an offence punishable by a fine of up to £1,000. Worrying livestock does not just mean attacking or killing cattle or sheep. If your dog chases livestock in such a way as could reasonably be expected to cause any form of suffering to the animals or a financial loss to their owner, it will be considered to have worried the livestock.

    If your dog attacks and injures another person’s pet, you are guilty of an offence punishable by a fine of up to £1,000. If you deliberately set your dog on livestock or another person’s pet you could be fined up to £2,500.

    If your dog has attacked a person or worried livestock a court may order that your dog be destroyed.

    Fixed penalties

    Certain offences attract fixed penalties, as well as other sanctions, as an alternative to prosecution. A dog warden may offer you a fixed penalty for the offence, instead of going to court. You can choose not pay the fixed penalty and have the matter dealt with in court.

    The offences which can attract a fixed penalty are:

    keeping a dog without a licence
    straying
    failing to keep a dog under control on certain roads and where livestock is present
    failing to display identification information on a collar/tag
    failing to notify the council of the transfer of a dog whose licence is subject to a control condition
    contravention of any control condition
    The default level for a fixed penalty is £75, although a council may set its own level between £50 to £80 and allow a discount for early payment.

    Who enforces the law

    An authorised council officer may seize a dog, without a warrant, that is in a public place or on any land where the dog appears to be attacking a person. The council officer may detain the dog until the relevant court case.

    Welfare organisations or charities have no powers under the Dogs Order, although councils may make arrangements with animal charities to provide dog pound facilities.

    More useful links

    The Dogs (NI) Order 1983 (Legislation.gov.uk website)
    The Dogs (Amendment) Act 2011 (Legislation.gov.uk website)
    Welfare of dogs
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  37. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    just to add. the warden had told my dad that it was my dog that done the biting because their records show the wounds are "rottweiler marks" how in the hell can they tell it was a rottweiler bite. it would be different if they came and took an imprint of my dogs teeth and came up with that statment after matching to the wounds. its just a whole mess. FFS :mad:
    #37
  38. boost-addict
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    boost-addict Member

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    the same way they could tell if you bit him or the dog, teeth leave a mark, and can be distinguished between breeds,

    dog.jpg
    #38
  39. supanova
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    supanova A3 2.0 TDI SE

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    well turns out nothing happened. dog warden came out and was happy with my dog and i even went as far as letting my dog out to go sniff around them to prove its an old dog and wouldnt harm a fly, my dog literally lay down, rolled over and one of the guys bent down and played and petted my dog. they went away happy. I still to this day do not believe my dog did the biting. just got a letter back to follow a few rules and alls well that ends well. :)
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