Im pretty new to these cars and from what i can see at the moment there isn't a whole lot that you can do to the NA engine in the 2.8 but was wondering if there is any specific enhancement that is actually worth doing
2.8 quattro performance upgrade
- Thread starter Rum
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now that looks real interesting costs more than the car did but may actually be worth doing nice idea adam
You used to be able to get these 2.8 engines chipped. Not the turbo type increases tho'!
I seem to remember at the time, 1996, that Audi restricted these engines to the 193 (??) bhp --- something to do with German insurance categories. I remember that Audi Driver ( probably VWAudi Car back in those days) tested one that somebody chipped and exhausted -- result was about 220 bhp iirc.
I seem to remember at the time, 1996, that Audi restricted these engines to the 193 (??) bhp --- something to do with German insurance categories. I remember that Audi Driver ( probably VWAudi Car back in those days) tested one that somebody chipped and exhausted -- result was about 220 bhp iirc.
I'll be very surprised if they got more than 5-10 Bhp out of that engine without getting high lift cams, exhaust and chip does not give as much as a 30 Bhp increase ! Even the PES supercharger does not have that bold claims ! Been in a few passats with the PES supercharger and not massively impressed but worth the money. 2 converted passats sold on ebay in the last 6 months for under 2k, on one i have done a cambelt job. Was alright, albeit a little lumpy on tick over but far,far from the 285Bhp owner's estimate...
but the factory had already artificially strangled the engine......
backed up with a rolling road figure........
backed up with a rolling road figure........
I am not contradicting you but as i said, NA engines are very difficult to tune in this day and age especially as they are highly strung from the factory. Most remaps on them don't worth the money, they will just smooth the engine map (not really needed as it's already smooth!) and just give you a 5-10 Bhp at most. A sports cat or decat pipe with smooth bends will make it breathe better but without valve overlap to get more air in the pistons and loads of advance there is not much you can gain at top end. The engine management is rather complicated on the 30 valve engine and won't play ball for too long if it senses a rich mixture and will compensate.
You get the same results by driving on Optimax all the time- save the money and just buy a turbocharged motor from the start- much more tuning potential !
You get the same results by driving on Optimax all the time- save the money and just buy a turbocharged motor from the start- much more tuning potential !
Foxmeister
Fired Up!
PES site claims 295 fitted with their chip PES - Performance Engineered Systems, LLC
Although i have heard a lot of bad press re the PES chip!
Although i have heard a lot of bad press re the PES chip!
Had our B3 80 Sport 'chipped' by the late Geoff Everett ( founded the orginal AmD company late 1980s).
Car had a BRmotorsport head + Schrick cam and that went up to 132/3 bhp (IIRC!) Claimed was about 135 so about right.
Geoff tweaked the ignition map ( KEinjection remember...only the ignition was 'e' !! ) and ended up at 138 bhp and 140 ft lbs torque-and at lower revs, a very small improvement,for the money, but it actually drove soooo much better.
The QTS went from 180 - 206 just like that - as you say so much easier!
Car had a BRmotorsport head + Schrick cam and that went up to 132/3 bhp (IIRC!) Claimed was about 135 so about right.
Geoff tweaked the ignition map ( KEinjection remember...only the ignition was 'e' !! ) and ended up at 138 bhp and 140 ft lbs torque-and at lower revs, a very small improvement,for the money, but it actually drove soooo much better.
The QTS went from 180 - 206 just like that - as you say so much easier!
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How each NA motor responds to tuning really depends on how restrictive it is in the first place.
usually any real gains requires the changing of camshafts, which is fine if theres another model in the range with better cams you can swap in, however if your having to spend out on new ones its not particuarly cost effective! Looking at the cam specs on the 2.8, i find it hard to believe it was "deliberately restricted". They're the most aggressive of the bunch. If they were trying to restrict it, they wouldnt have fitted more aggressive cams to it...
IMO, your better off just buying a different car. The 1.8T would see far larger gains for the same spend, and would give better fuel economy, and a more nimble drive as its lighter. Or if you want easy power then an S4 and a remap sees you over 300hp, plus gives you a better specified car to start with.
usually any real gains requires the changing of camshafts, which is fine if theres another model in the range with better cams you can swap in, however if your having to spend out on new ones its not particuarly cost effective! Looking at the cam specs on the 2.8, i find it hard to believe it was "deliberately restricted". They're the most aggressive of the bunch. If they were trying to restrict it, they wouldnt have fitted more aggressive cams to it...
IMO, your better off just buying a different car. The 1.8T would see far larger gains for the same spend, and would give better fuel economy, and a more nimble drive as its lighter. Or if you want easy power then an S4 and a remap sees you over 300hp, plus gives you a better specified car to start with.
Foxmeister
Fired Up!
I was told my car was running 210-215bhp also, with de-cat, straight thru S/S exh, remap etc so similar figure to what Kingfisher states.
Im not sure if i believe it is there, as i came from turbo cars previously and it feels slower at first, but does have good midrange etc.
Might try get it on the rollers for a before and after the S/C install to see if claimed figures match.
Im not sure if i believe it is there, as i came from turbo cars previously and it feels slower at first, but does have good midrange etc.
Might try get it on the rollers for a before and after the S/C install to see if claimed figures match.
Chap on uk passats is selling his PES Supercharged passat 4 motion, he's after 2950 for the whole car. I can forward his details if someone's interested- please pm for mobile number/details... I've done the cambelts on it this summer...
Foxmeister
Fired Up!
Just out of interest, do you know if he had it mapped here in UK and who he used? Or is it running the PES map?
Most places i spoke to didnt have experience or want to do it.
From what I have been reading it seams that Euro spec 2.8's have less aggressive cams than the USA model, maybe this is where the engine restrictions came from? I beleive a lot of info on the net about 2.8 cam profiles is from the US and although they never got the 2.4 these are actually the ones in the Euro market that match the US 2.8 cams.
Only from what I have read on the net mind but it pops up a lot that Euro and US 2.8's are different. Maybe a set of 2.4 cams and a remap could see a few more HP.
EDIT:- just looked it up some more and maybe its the heads that are different between US and Euro 2.8's. Something about US having large port heads and Euro are small port but Euro 2.4 are large port.
Only from what I have read on the net mind but it pops up a lot that Euro and US 2.8's are different. Maybe a set of 2.4 cams and a remap could see a few more HP.
EDIT:- just looked it up some more and maybe its the heads that are different between US and Euro 2.8's. Something about US having large port heads and Euro are small port but Euro 2.4 are large port.
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I don't know and i don't think the owner knows either ! I have driven the car after the cambelt job and it was ok but definately not 295 Bhp, more like 250 ! I drove it in Croydon- South London and the streets were busy and many speed bumps about !
Here's pictures from his photobucket:
Foxmeister
Fired Up!
The PES off the shelf tune is notoriusly bad, quite a few having issues with them over time! They have now re-done a new version but dont know feedback, however they have said there were ignition and fuelling issues with the original.
Also the SC original injectors are running near there max with the kit, they are also a needed upgrade so hopefully doing that will take it nearer to the proposed figures PES claim originally.
Also the SC original injectors are running near there max with the kit, they are also a needed upgrade so hopefully doing that will take it nearer to the proposed figures PES claim originally.
