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2.5TDi V6 quattro Sport 180hp Turbochip

Discussion in 'Diesel forum' started by fjtwelve, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. Shane TDI
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    Shane TDI New Member

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    [Mar 31, 2010]
    FJ, sorry to hear of your continuing problems, but at least you have a diagnosis, I see some talk on other forums about using a larger frame VNT for this engine.

    Great VNT info on the Garrett site:
    http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/gt_basics.html

    Also great pics of de-coking exercise at:
    http://kev-stuff.blogspot.com/2007/01/vnt-turbo-de-coke.html


    Well at my last post I mentioned heating up problems, I bit the bullet and went for the thermostat. On the way to it I found the T-Belt to be original (80k) and not replaced at 68k as per service book ! so new everything. :motz:Tested the new and old stat in heating water from cold, old unit open half way at 70 deg and then fully at 90, hence not a chance to get to 90. New unit worked as it should, however car takes an age to get up to temp (about 15miles driving!). Is there any other diversion around the stat anywhere? or is this typical behaviour?

    Does anyone know the stock turbo pressures for this engine, tested mine at the port at the start of the inlet manifold, found to be spiking fairly quickly to 25-30psi and consistently dropping back to a controlled 15psi. Is this typical? can the VNT mechanism control to a setpoint and what should it be or is it simply open/shut. Info welcome.

    Regarding the clunk on gear change, checked all mounts and bushes, all well. Found considerable backlash in rear diff, sourced a second hand unit, changed it and no difference. Grrrrrr.

    Still feels like there is something running very tight on hard lock at parking speed, feels like a binding of some sort. New VAG oil for G'Box in case torsen is at fault. G052911 v expensive and no cross reff anywhere. Will let you know if it makes any difference.


    Shane, 01 Allroad 2.5q.
  2. blackwagon
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    blackwagon Member

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    [Apr 2, 2010]
    Hi Shane,

    I had the same problem on my previous quattro. Changed gearbox oil and the next day the trouble started.
    I know someone in the VW gearbox factory at Kassel, he sais it is a very common problem. There exists an additive that is filled into the quattro geraboxes called 'Sturaco', it is very poisonous and stinks like hell ! Also delicate to add, too much will kill the oil seals, it makes them harden. It is a Castrol product but isn't sold to separately to individuals. It is pré mixed in Castrol's TAF-X and SAF-X oils. It did the trick for me, after refilling with this oil the noise went away and stayed away, I ran the car anaother 200 000km without any prob.

    B.R

    Stefan
  3. Shane TDI
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    Shane TDI New Member

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    [Apr 3, 2010]
    Thanks Stefan, I would assume that the VAG oil recommended G052911A2 would contain the correct additives, or am I to assume that you tried this and found that this was not the case? Also mine is a manual and the SAF-XA appears to be not recommended for syncromesh boxes. Was your quattro an auto?

    The TDS from castrol says: Castrol TAF-X is a fully synthetic SAE 75W-90 multigrade gear oil. It is formulated with specially selected additives to combine extreme pressure qualities with synchro-cone compatibility.
    But I cant find reff to the specific aditive you mention. would be greatful for any additional info if you have it.
    http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lub...C3A2CFEA5EF3EA9A80256C4E005B81B5?OpenDocument
    http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/b...assets/downloads/s/SAF_XO_SAF_XJ_B1174_96.pdf

    Think I will try the VAG oil, but keep whatever come out of the box, just in case things go south!. Thanks for the heads up.

    Shane
  4. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 5, 2010]
    Got the car back on Good Friday but everyone on holiday so have not had an update or much chance to drive it. Plenty of power and torque, smoke going from closed throttle or trailing throttle to acceleration when under 2000rpm. Revs to 4900-5000rpm comfortably. Still got the idle speed shudder. Unlikely to be able to get much more done before i go away now, we'll see.
  5. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2010]
    SURPRISE!!!
    Audi customer services phoned today. The email i had sent to VAG UK had percolated around to the guy that couldn't help me before. He has now spoken to Skoda customer services and said they were prepared to consider the case. So i phoned Skoda customer service and had a chat and they said get the garage to call them. So phoned the garage and now i await the next exciting development. How about that? Its only taken 5 weeks for the message to go around the houses.
  6. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 8, 2010]
    Sounds a little bit promising then! Its about time something went your way :icon_thumright:
  7. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 9, 2010]
    Unsurprisingly, after speaking to the garage Skoda have referred it back to Audi again but this time to the manager of the guy i first spoke to. Apparently the approach of the Audi dealer to say we'll submit a warranty claim after we've rebuilt the entire head and you've paid was not correct. You don't say. Its apparent from the conversation today that most of the Customer Services guys from the different brands know one another and work if not in the same building then in adjacent ones. Sigh. Where did i put that Guinness?
  8. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    Right. Kill or cure. Off tomorrow to drive to Munich via Dover Paris Nurburgring (promise not to drive round it) Frankfurt and Stuttgart. AA recovery organised.....
  9. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Apr 14, 2010]
    bon voyage - please don' kill it:icon_thumright:
  10. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 22, 2010]
    Falmouth Dover Paris Nurburgring Weinheim Stuttgart Munich finally Stuttgart to Falmouth in one hit 2613 miles total average 61.5mph max 145 ave 29.8mpg 1L oil after 1650 miles. Considering the German traffic jams and roadworks we didn't do too bad. If i can keep it mostly below 85mph i got 32mpg. This thing lives for 70 to 120mph. Need to be over 2000rpm to get acceleration without smoke. Getting smoke a 3/4 to full throttle, maybe leaning that off will help the fuel starvation problem which is still there but not as bad, and also putting foot down too fast. Have to be sensible at around 3000rpm as accerating too hard just starts slipping the clutch, which has started to get a bit snatchy at lower revs/speeds. Got a nail in a tyre at Dover but it stayed there, the engine undertray came off as i came off the ferry ramp but trusty tie wraps kept it in place. Want to go to the Nurburgring and have a go next time.
  11. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 22, 2010]
    Nice, quicker than flying :icon_thumright:
  12. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 3, 2010]
    Back with Celtic last week. Have pulled the fuelling down across the whole map by 10%. This is resulting in a lot less smoke everywhere and the raw edges disappearing, smoother running. Can drive below 2000rpm without much smoke now, puff of smoke or haze if pulling away briskly, just get a brief cloud if accelerating out of a roundabout going from trailing to open throttle. Turbo whistle is more pronounced. Another litre of oil after about 1450 miles, but those miles include chasing the ferry last week. Fuel economy appears to be up to around 32, did 600miles over the weekend on the end of one tank and the start of another, mostly motorway but including jams, and about 100 miles cross country, but still need to refuel second tankful to get mpg. Trying to keep to 85 but very difficult. Performance up to 100 much the same, still pulls and pulls, but maybe not quite as much at the top end. Need another dyno run.
  13. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 25, 2010]
    Well curiously the idle speed shudder is now disappearing on its own. It will happen sometimes at start up but if left to idle will now often disappear. Once warmed up this is more likely to happen. It still shudders if you stop in a queue at stop lights after driving for a while but after a few minutes of stop start driving or tootling around town it diminishes and can go away.

    Smoke still occurs if you open the throttle too much at below 2000. In the first 3 gears the gearing is so low you don't really notice any lag, but from (sometimes in 3rd) 4th up you can feel that it starts to pick up at 1600rpm or so, and by 1800-1900 is starting to pull. The original un-tuned engine was a bit like this, but you fell in a hole at 1400-1800, now it’s more of a steady build up to 1800. Stuck in a slow moving line of traffic it will cruise happily at 1000rpm in 6th, but you won’t accelerate off anywhere fast. Over 2000rpm in any gear it is just immediately responsive. It revs very smooth and my driving style is changing to take advantage of this, I am holding on longer in the middle gears because there is enough power to carry on to 5000rpm. The fuel starvation sensation has almost completely disappeared; although I’ve provoked it once or twice. It doesn’t feel as relentlessly powerful as it did, the response is there but not as meaty as it was. I suspect i have lost some torque and top end power/speed but haven't had the opportunity to check. Have only been driving locally, no long or motorway trips. It’s not as quick as it was initially but does not smoke and is thus less antisocial and more relaxing to drive, I have almost started to look where I’m going again instead of monitoring the cloud in the mirrors.

    Despite this revvier driving style fuel economy has improved to 30mpg in local driving from the 26mpg or so it was. As soon as i get on to dual carriageways it jumps to 32, and i'm sure there's more if i can keep it below 80. This is not far off what I was getting in Scotland on empty roads, so get it in Cornish lanes running another 90hp or so is very good. DIS is now giving a reliable 1.8x the actual fuel economy (was 1.73x before the last remap).

    I’ll get it to the dyno next month and post the results.
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  14. Inskip75
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    Inskip75 Member

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    [May 27, 2010]
    Really glad you are finally getting some positive results which work in the real world! Maybe a bit lower on power and torque but sounds as though its a better beast now, it will be interesting to see what the figures are like from the dyno.
    Many thanks for continuing to report!!!
  15. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [May 30, 2010]
    Unexpectedly went up to Birmingham for a meeting on Friday. 80mph cruise all the way on Thursday night, but having been stuck in Bank Holiday traffic on Friday meant once i got a clear road late on i gave it some welly to catch up time. Have definitely lost some of the top end and it still smokes on the top third of throttle regardless of engine speed in the upper gears unless you are prepared to coax it a bit and accelerate slower. Needless to say this is not what we are aiming at. In the lower gears you can pretty much give it full throttle until the rev limiter cuts in (well what ever it is but theres something that stops the rev counter bending its needle as i discovered pulling out a bit sharpish the other day) and you only get an initial puff of smoke. Up to about 120 you can have a race with most things, after that more throttle produces smoke and slower acceleration.
  16. blackwagon
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    blackwagon Member

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    [Jun 6, 2010]
    Hmmm, so if you pull hard till 120mph it all goes well, then the performance drops off and it starts to smoke. Try to log the air temp after the IC when this is happening, I suspect your IC is too small to cool down the air when keeping the boost that high for longer periods (doing acceleration from low speed till 120+mph). I measured the temp in my 180hp quattro, it went up to about 60°C with stock turbocharger when flooring is repeatedly from 50mph till 120 mph. With Vagcom you can monitor this temperature.

    I installed my ported roller rocker heads with polished valves and optimised valve seats, knocked out the little cat behind the turbocharger, it goes wonderfully, smooth, revv happy.
    I also found out the injectors are the later BAU ones, which means smaller then stock AKE.
    Now have to do some tinkering to get my new 142P1519 fit the injector bodies, but it will work and deliver roughly 20% more fuel than my current ones.

    A KKK BV 50 from a 3.0 TDI is on its way, needs to be converted to mechanical boost control, but seems doable enough.

    Best regards
  17. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Jun 8, 2010]
    I wondered about enlarging the intercooler when i first started but received knowledge seemed to be that it was unlikely i'd need to. I also did not know how to work out how much bigger to make it. Originally i just wanted to make the existing engine perform to its potential I didn't really want to get into a massive amount of modification. I think i may take out that cat you are referring to, i also have been toying with the idea of a new larger diameter stainless steel pipe system, but as my wife has just given in her notice development funding is going to dry up somewhat. Anyway this morning it kept up with a TT quattro to about 90 odd before he backed off so no rush to do any more just yet.
  18. blackwagon
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    blackwagon Member

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    [Jun 11, 2010]
    I wouldn't invest in a large diameter stainless exhaust system, if you just empty the cats it won't rob you of any power I think. A bigger intercooler might be the better option, but to be sure just monitor your charge temp with a VAG or Vagcom when keeping the boost high for longer period of time. If it rises beyond 55°-60°C a bigger IC will definately help, powerwise and smokewise :)

    I am now looking at the inlet restriction that is situated right behind the shutoff valve (the butterfly).
    It is at the point where the EGR comes into the inlet tract. I already shut off the EGR, but I would like to make a bigger diameter part because the restriction at that point is quite severe.

    B.R

    Stefan
  19. sewell
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    sewell New Member

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    [Jul 31, 2010]
    Best thread Ive read on the internet !

    Im looking for some help on my AKE and feel im in the right place :)
    (sorry for the copyjob)

    Dont let your friends rebuild your AKE ! Testing on the friendship (in my case anyway)
    My mate has rebuilt my engine following excessive cam wear causing some teeth to snap of the shafts cog. Caused all sorts of untold damage and decided to go for the full rebuild rather than new engine option, the reason obviously to keep the cost down.. doh!

    Had the camshaft repaired and tested due to the cam locker/lip snaping, replaced all the all the followers valves and gaskets and had both heads done timing belts etc. Rebulid went fine so it seemed. Fired up first time with no problems and she purred better than ever (engine had noisy rattle prior)((the camshaft floating/moving about im thinking)) but she wouldnt hold her oil pressure.

    So replaced the oil pump and again seemed to have done the trick.. but now the oil and water are mixing. I mean the dip stick looks like a glue stick covered in a white sticky paste.

    Mechanic/friend then says its f$cked, must be cracked casing because both heads have been done and thats 'usually' what it indicates, unlucky!!

    'usually' I did some more digging and found out this could also be attributed to the oil cooler so he's going to get it tested early next week

    So this is where im at the moment and im praying the oil cooler fails its test and a new one of them is all that's needed. Am I missing something ?? is there something else I/he should be doing ??

    Reading fjtwelve's Tubochip thread has giving me a new passion for this now. I started a new job last week so Im hoping things are starting to come together, any help or ideas would be very welcomed
  20. Acidburn
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    Acidburn New Member

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    [Aug 5, 2010]
    Thought I recognised you from somewhere :think: longtime no speak mate, hope all's well.

    fj12 - brilliant thread, really looking forward to updates. I came on here as i'd been looking for info about the needle lift sensor and ideally where to buy one, seems audi atm. As i'd picked up a cheap a6 allroad 2.5tdi quattro (£600 with this issue :ninja: fully loaded with all the toys) and its interesting to see someone mod the engine. You must have spent quite a bit on the engine to say the least.

    Does anyone have any good threads to modding a 1.9 tdi 4 cylinder engine (think its a ahu code) as my daily needs more power and whats regarded as a safe power, i've been told 20 psi is max I want to go to without killing the headgasget etc.
  21. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 18, 2010]
    Sorry about deafening silence, not done much on the car, been working hard and doing lots on the house. Thanks for the compliments, will need a sun roof to get my head in soon. Still haven't got back to dyno, haven't really done any mileage except back and forth to the airport for a couple of months.
    The main cost on the engine has been repairing or replacing worn out parts. Mods are only the nozzles and turbo and remap so if your engine is in good nick this is not a very expensive exercise.
    For 1.9TDI info go to tdiclub.com.
  22. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 30, 2010]
    Had an entertaining 20 mins chasing a 54 plate Carrerra S on the way to the airport this morning. Severely bent the rev counter needle and cooked the brakes (jeez they can stop quickly) but a real blast. Sure hes quicker than me but with traffic he couldn't really go too quick so the old torque monster kept reeling him back. Pissed him off sufficiently that he tore off up the A30 at 120 plus. Happy speeding ticket big lad! Bet he still hasn't worked out what was keeping up with him either HA!
  23. SamTHorn
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    SamTHorn computer repairs

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    [Aug 30, 2010]
    \

    How's the ride working for you now?
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  24. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Aug 30, 2010]
    Driving around town is a pain, open roads are funfunfun and dual carriageways / motorways are licence threatening. You need to drive it to get the best out of it, best over 2000rpm, and need to use the gears more than i used to. Tramping on in 3rd and 4th is a buzz. It doesn't always feel quick , but you begin to notice that somehow most things that were in front of you are now behind you without having really tried that hard. Its a proper Q car that i can go and annoy Scoobies, Porsches and other petrol stuff in before they notice me. If i can finance it i think it will still benefit from some more mapping, and maybe try an intercooler upgrade, but i'm in no great rush just now.
  25. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 7, 2010]
    Oh dear. Have started researching intercoolers and getting prices for straight though 2.5 / 3" exhaust.
  26. swarcup
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    swarcup Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 7, 2010]
    oh dear, as in im about to upgrade or oh dear thats gonna hurt the wallet?
  27. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Sep 7, 2010]
    Exhaust costs like around 100euros, when using universal pipe and one muffler. Just for example. Don't think that there's that much difference on prices. You just need to weld it together by yourself etc. :)
    If you want bolt-on solution for intercoolers I used autobahn88 1.8t kit for mine. Though I have B5 model.
  28. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 8, 2010]
    Oh dear as in here we go again, as for the wallet it sounds as if i need to go on holiday to Finland. Diffas if you'd seen my welding you wouldn't be recommending DIY!
  29. swarcup
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    swarcup Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 8, 2010]
    oh dear here we go again. cool

    Its been a rollercoaster so far lets hope things go a little smoother
  30. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Sep 8, 2010]
    Hehe fair enuff. Welcome here :) Soon there's snow and loads of fun with quattro. :D

    Well if you're using universal 3" pipe - the same as the plumbers use, you save big money there.
    Call to some plumber-company and ask like 3meters 76.1x1.6mm stainless pipe and curves. Mufflers you can buy anywhere. :) If you are not good welder you can also use pipe extensionconnectors with. Or you can ask some friend to weld?
  31. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 8, 2010]
    Falmouth to Lahti now theres aroad trip worth thinking about. Its 1750 miles to Helsinki after that according to Multimap theres about 10 places called Lahti to choose from so could be there for a while:icon_thumright: may be i''l come over there once all the bits are fixed on and you and your finnish mates who allegedly have the fastest diesels can try and remap it quicker.
  32. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Sep 8, 2010]
    And when you arrive here I have ported heads waiting for you. :) I'm working with the new heads at the moment. I've bought BDG heads with cams, vents etc etc.
    We noticed that the main problem with the heads is that there is too much swirl inside the inlet port, therefore the air stops flowing after the 5mm lift. That means you have
    no point having big boost. With the little porting we reached over 20% raise of airflow on naturally aspired motor scale. And with reduced swirl you have always more air
    with bigger boost or lift.

    Other thing we noticed the inlet port is DAMN full of karbon if there has been EGR used, atleast 1/3 of ports capacity is blocked. You should check yours too!
    Check: http://evvk.1g.fi/kuvat/Diudi/kansiremppa/20100821_002.jpg

    There is some project pics (with Finnish texts :)) : http://evvk.1g.fi/kuvat/Diudi/kansiremppa/


    I'm glad you are after the straight pipes: YouTube - Audi A4 V6 2.5TDi new exhaust sounds this engine sounds business. It's nice to see peoples face on the streets when accelerating :) "wtf is that" :D
  33. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 8, 2010]
    The heads have been pretty clean whenever they've been off. I don't know if thats a function of the fact nearly all my driving has been on open roads not stuck in town/city, or the fact i nearly always use Shell VPower diesel. My EGR is still connected. Whether it is still as clean now i don't know, obviously i am making more smoke than i used to. Theres a lot of talk on 1.9TDI forums about disconnecting the EGR, not sure if i should do it now.

    We have not increased boost pressure on the current map, obviously getting more air in with porting would help but my principle has been to essentially to use bolt on modifications without altering the engine internals. Bolting on a new set of ported heads would be stretching that principle a bit....Let me get to the end of exhausts and intercoolers first and finding if we can remap that before we go to heads.

    Yes i like that noise!
  34. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Sep 9, 2010]
    Oh wait ... what? You still have EGR running? That's the first thing that should be disabled when car has run out of the factory. ;)
    After the porting everything is still bolt on. :D
  35. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 14, 2010]
    Gaffa taped my phone to the steering wheel yesterday to video some acceleration. Not going to win any oscars for photography or editing but its a laugh. Started at a roundabout , edited out a long boring bit stuck behind a outside lane hog, gets interesting at the next roundabout and then ran out of memory.
    [​IMG]
    Sad man that i am i have got some split times if you are interested
  36. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Sep 14, 2010]
    classic, i'm still waiting for the rest to buffer (slow web @ work!)

    when you said you tapped the phone to the wheel i didn't think you meant you actually tapped it to the wheel lol:applaus:
  37. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Sep 14, 2010]
    Use the proper cam for that. I used my friends Hero motorsport HD cam: teh result
    Looks like your Audi runs bit faster. :) Like said on tdiclub, you need power to the high revvs.
  38. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 14, 2010]
    Hereford
    If yours is standard trim can you video yours to see if theres much difference?
  39. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Sep 14, 2010]
    If i can work out a way of fixing my phone to the dash i will, i just tried but it's touch screen so keeps turning itself off:banghead:
  40. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 26, 2010]
    Exhaust guy has suggested twin 57mm pipes (bigger area than a 75mm pipe), balancer pipe at same point original pipes run through the same muffler, each with a muffler. Any comment? Need to detail turbo to branch, was thinking may be this needs to be 75mm?

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