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2.5TDi V6 quattro Sport 180hp Turbochip

Discussion in 'Diesel forum' started by fjtwelve, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Car languishing on the drive most of the time now, flying back and forth to Dublin every week. However wife backed it into her car whilst manouvering in the drive so she's using it whilst hers is at the menders. (A6 scrape, A4 big dent). Only doing about 450 mile a month now and for the next year probably. Trying to decide if i should sell it and bank the cash, but every time i boot it up the road a small grin appears. (Tip for you, if you car is feeling slow and boring, go and use a few hire cars - Vectras, Kias, Astras, Focus, C5, Punto to name a few - you'll soon remember how it is when the car goes slower up the hills, has no power to overtake, and the frustration you used to have that all disappeared when you invested in all that torque.) The some days better than others feature remains, but it definitely prefers the colder weather we are having just now. However the intermittent use means no meaningful data really.
    Was interested to read above about the power potential, but you're right, there's 9 tenths of feck all info on tuning this engine to be found. Think that without major work eg changing turbos etc, as described above you aren't going to go much further than 210hp without losing the torque or getting an engine thats less pleasurable to drive. Probably better moving on to the 3 litre with a box or remap. I'm tempted by the 535 BMW with its big and little turbos, but haven't driven one, and no point lashing out all that cash if i'm doing such a tiny mileage.
    Oh, and we sold the house. Easy really, all you do is wait a year, pay an obscenely large amount of interest bills poll tax you name it on both houses , take 40k off the price and then get haggled down another 10k, do the solicitors job for them, and then take the proceeds down to Asda to put through the change sorting machine. Thank kcuf thats over with. Now I can start sorting this one out. Anybody want 4 or 5 sinks and about 10 mirrors? Previous occupants obviously had different priorities, mirrors everywhere and no door on the garage.
  2. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Car has ended up in the garage after losing alarming amounts of coolant whilst my wife was coming back from Exeter. Currently money is on head gasket. Erm lemme see, which one shall we take off first, bound to be the wrong one. Maybe i should get both off anyway to check. Has also started running cold again so whilst all the belts and clutter is off the front end i have asked them to pull the thermostat. Slight trepidation about what they will see when they lift the heads - scored bores, dented pistons - all those thing HE should have replaced but i could never get a straight answer out of them about what they had replaced. What a jolly christmas present the bill is going to be - not. Stop press - first cam cover off, one exhaust cam is pretty badly worn, water pump is weeping, thermostat appears ok but will get changed anyway. Mechanic is apparently enjoying himself - proper job!
  3. istoo
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    istoo Member

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    jesus i thought i was unlucky... this is on the new engine i guess, how many miles has that racked up? keep us updated... quattroJames also had a similar experience when his blew up and had a new engine in the past few weeks.
    TOUCH WOOD, mine has been running like clockwork since the remap came off. 8k further on and returning a near regular 40mpg and shifting when needs be.

    i am with you on the 535d, cant quite stretch that far but drove a 530d (later 230bhp ones) and was rather impressed. first thing i have found as a replacement for the A6/A4 that is as good/ better. and we have tried a lot! Not sold on the new A6 i must admit..
    http://www.autoquake.com/vehicle/inspid=7602

    hugely unlucky on the house prices, just sold at the wrong time :( hope you picked up a bargain on the otherside though?!?
  4. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ok here we go. About 21,000 miles after the rebuild we have:
    One blown head gasket. Heads sent for pressure testing just in case
    One inlet cam badly worn, £166
    One exhaust cam badly worn, another £166
    One cam follower fallen off
    Rocker box seal failed, has been leaking badly into undertray and blowing away
    Bores look to have been honed, no evidence of oil blowing past
    Pistons all ok other than pretty black
    So the plan is replace all cams and follower, replace oil pump (all that cam wear floating about in the oil, lets just say once bitten), replace water pump, lets call it £1200 for parts. Labour same again. Happy Christmas from Heathrow Engines (now no longer trading just called Engine Warehouse instead) finest purveyors of secondhand chocolate camshafts and oil spraying equipment.

    By the way, Audi have said that most of the parts are the same as the AYN engine

    I have been joining in on quattrojames thread, we would start a broken AKE club but he says he can't afford the joining fee.

    40mpg? WTF! Have you found the accelerator yet? I have managed 39mpg once in 80000 miles

    Bargain on a house? In the South of England last year? You having a larf mate? The only saving grace is that we are on the seafront in a good location, intend to be here for a while, so am fairly comfortable that we'll get back what we paid if we decide to move again in the future. I was asked if I wanted a job in Bahrain last night. Not yet but if I get any more bills like this one .....
  5. dieselhead1
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    dieselhead1 New Member

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    Hi,
    I am fairly sure it's no the vp37 fuel pump but the fuel pumps electronic control unit that is the weak link.
    I did see on ebay someone that upgraded the software/ electronics.
    Hope this helps?
  6. dieselhead1
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    dieselhead1 New Member

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  7. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I have just read this whole thread for the first time, and it scare me to say my experiences are beginning to mirror yours :drag:

    I am so glad that I had read enough of this beforehand to recognise the name Heathrow Engines and be cautious into looking into them some more and doing some research before I bought an engine from them. Their price was always the cheapest, but god only knows what problems I would have faced then.

    Have you heard anything from them recently? Companies house website said they were in liquidation when I looked.

    What's the timescale for getting yours back? Are you confident enough in your current engine to spend the money rebuilding it?
  8. dieselhead1
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    dieselhead1 New Member

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    Hi,

    There seems to be some mis-diagnosis of the core problem.
    Is it the MAF - no, is it the remap - no, is it the ecu - no.
    It's likely that there is an electronic control unit that 'sits on' the fuel pump.
    The control unit 'communicates' with the ecu. There is a problem with a software driver so the communication between the ecu and fuel pump temporarily fails.
    I have posted a link that highlights this and a possible solution.
    I guess some 'experts' are ripping 2.5 tdi owners off.
    I hope this helps
  9. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah i saw the link, but it's direct to Polish Ebay which tbh doesnt help me much :uhm:
  10. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Quattrojames - Engine is back together and car is on the road, replaced all the cam followers in the end as when cleaned they were all badly worn. I have the old cams in a box and will try to get a picture posted. We'll drive it around gently for a 1000 miles to make sure everything has been bolted down properly and then change the oil again. £3088 after some discounting and rounding down of hours. Have to say that if you are in Cornwall and looking for service, Falmouth Garage in Penryn (the Skoda dealer) has to be one of the first to call.

    Dieselhead1 - Interesting note about the controller for the fuel pump, not heard this one before. I also tried the link but also got Polish ebay. Would be very interestd to follow it up, can you have another shot at the link please
  11. dieselhead1
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    dieselhead1 New Member

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    Hi, I haven't seen anyone except ebay poland trader that can make the fuel pump >< ecu drivers communicate properly. It's like pluging a new printer to your computer and the driver (software) doesn't quite work.
  12. dieselhead1
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    dieselhead1 New Member

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  13. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Got it this time thanks. Wonder if my Skoda dealer has heard of them? May also be able to check out back in Dublin as we have 100s of Polish guys working there.
  14. istoo
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    istoo Member

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    the fuel injection pump has an ECU of its own as well. Some of the bosch agents will check rebuilt the pump (including ECU) for you. if its faulty the diagnostics brings up the J399 code (i think thats the code)

    fjtwelve, thats f**king hellish, see my issues have gone away since setting the removing the remap. although i did consider sending the injection pump to bosch for a full service. but thats where i drew the line. but as the above posters comments, there is SO LITTLE information on this engine, this thread alone is a great insight and has helped me a lot. hope yur bother ceases. but two multi£k bills must be pissing you off surely! I bought a 90 quattro sport 20v last month, been driving it for ages, and it costs about the same as a service of the fuel injection pump on the AKE! sometimes i wonder...

    Although today i did go for a run in my mates new purchase, same car as yours, with leather recaros which i havent seen and ronal alloys, nice car, who ever bought it ticked a lot of the options list. 100k 2001 A6 2.5tdiQ avant... £4.5k. your almost better off buying a other car next time!

    oh, and happy xmas. James i thought i sent you this link?
  15. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The first 250 miles after the rebuild: initially sounded tappety as hell when putting the engine under load for the first 2 or 3 miles each time i started it, disappeared then and not a sound when hot. There are occasional gargling sounds too, a bit like when there's air in your central heating radiator. These symptoms are now receding, sound is less and disappears in the first mile. Fuel economy for the first 100 miles was horrendous 24mpg or so, but the DIS average is now climbing towards 26 so its improving steadily, this is all around town stuff anyway but would expect 30 ish. Also felt a bit tight and lacking torque, but that disappeared after 150 miles or so. The good news is that its now starting to respond a bit like it used to, the torque is becoming apparent again, its revving a bit faster and more readily, and i can just feel a bit of that surge around 2800rpm again. It's as if the ecu is relearning what to do. It just sailed through the MOT without doing anything except replacing the rear wiper blade. When the tester floored it for the emissions test there was still smoke but i think this was fuel rather than oil. There does seem to be less smoke behind me but this is most noticeable at night in peoples headlights and i haven't been out much recently to really check this. Water temperature is coming up quicker than the oil now, and sitting a gnats under 90. The oil is sitting slightly hotter between 90-100. Really need to do a longer run to see how things go. I would also like to get a full VAGCOM check by someone who knows what they are looking at. This is where i could really do with being closer to Star.
    A cautious thumbs up then. I'll keep you posted
  16. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh and BTW to the 58 plate debadged A4 that found a salt caked 51 plate A6 glued to his rear bumper at er 1**ish down the hill at Devoran this morning, yeah sorry, can't resist a challenge, was going for the outbrake into the roundabout but that Subaru on the roundabout got in the way. Tee hee
  17. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    "Think that without major work eg changing turbos etc, as described above you aren't going to go much further than 210hp without losing the torque or getting an engine thats less pleasurable to drive. "
    Have been spending a few hours browsing the net. Theres a lad in the lake district with a 150hp 2.5 that now delivers 268hp, no remap, mechanical mods only. Interesting eh? Have found that Allards don't do any bits for my car but i would like to find someone who could make an EGR modification like they do for the 1.9. Have also been looking into gas flowing, theres a company that claims to have got 350hp out of a 1.9. Will keep digging.
  18. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    That chap does have a few bits and bobs done to the car: new rebuilt pump with - 3 degrees of timing, a tuning box to match the fueling and upped boost from the turbocharger...Still impresive though if true !
  19. istoo
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    istoo Member

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    adamss24, if you have any links on the other cars you were speaking about i would be very interested to see. fj interesting, fuel mixture can be interesting, isnt there a chap on here with a 2.0tdi with daft power with a methanol mixture?
  20. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It appears that www.dieselbob.co.uk offer a diagnostic and rebuild/exchange service for the pumps, looks like a VP44 on this engine. Also possible Frank Massey www.ads-global.co.uk can do similar work
  21. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    fjtwelve... not sure if you're still in search of a higher top-end, but the only way you're gonna get that is by changing the gearing / cam-profile... the chipping is all about increasing torque, but the fact is the diesel engines will normally get to a certain point in the rev-range where they just STOP giving any more power (sometiems quite suddenly).


    Changing the gearing will "fook" yer accelleration.... and I'd recommend against the cam-profile option as your fuel economy will go out the window....
  22. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'd just like to get the engine to run comfortably to the red line in all gears without effectively building another engine. I'm looking for relatively straightforward mods along the lines of removing the restrictions on the engine rather than changing everything. I am slowly acquiring contacts with companies that can check all the various bits are working properly. We're up to 198000 miles now so theres a chance some other parts need resetting or replacing. The engine is now showing all the signs of being back to its old self after the last rebuild but as i'm working away from home i am getting very little time to pursue this at the moment, not to mention replacing the £3k it just cost me. If you do get the r-tech remap i'd be interested to see the before and after dyno curves.
  23. BahnStormer77
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    BahnStormer77 BahnStormer

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    I'm gonna give it 6 months or so (possibly a bit longer) before I try anything.

    1) to build up an idea of what the fuel economy SHOULD be....

    2) 4 x new Hankook Ventus V12 EVO tyres... not used these before, and not 100% confident in them, so not too sure I want any MORE torque going to the wheels.

    Besides... if wanted to really rag anything around, that's what the Golf is for... awesome Eibach-Koni suspension, Brembo brakes and rorty high revving little engine... it may not be as quick at devouring A-B distances in relaxed comfort, but it's a lot more agile, feels a LOT faster (read: v hard ride and a lot more noise!) and can be a lot more fun. and technically the top end is about 10mph higher, not that you'd really want to be doing that on the open road/AutoBahn/track/anywhere.... well maybe on a track....
  24. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    A stain on my drive proved on closer inspection to be diesel not oil which led to a bit of a hunt around inside the bonnet. I think the **** fuel economy has probably had something to do with the all the rubber pipes that run between the injectors on the fuel return circuit all having split at the ends and come off. Just enough pipe left to clip them short and refit them temporarily. When and why this ocurred I don't know but the engine has been running better and better, the traction control light even made a brief re-appearance last week. Now done about 900 miles post rebuild and about to go in next week for an oil change and check over, so i'll get all the pipes replaced.
  25. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I was going to write somrthing humorous but have lost the will. Brought to you in glorious technicolor and no expense spared. You're right there
  26. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I have heard that these engines can be susceptible to cam wear problems, but what seems to be both your and my nightmare is getting them to run right ever again!

    I won't hijack your thread, but in summary for me:

    "Late Oct the cam belt idler pulley disintegrates as it wasn't replaced as it should have been at the 70k cambelt change. Subsequently the four cams are stripped and the followers break off and some appear to go down the oilways into the sump. Replacement engine is sought and installed.
    Six days later the tensioner pulley bolt breaks and the same happens again! Car is returned to engine supplier just before Christmas for no quibble engine rebuild.
    Three weeks later car is returned, still not running right. Three of the four wheels are damaged (significantly) and there is oil marks all over the leather seats. I do 1000 miles to see if this engine is going to last and to settle the hydraulic tappets before spending any more money.
    Car taken to an independent locally who diagnose the needle flow valve is knackered, as is the viscous coupling on the fan. The engine timing is also well out. So the car goes back in and the front comes off (again) and I am told that the new timing gear I paid for doesn't look new. So for further peace of mind I pay for complete new timing gear and water pump. New bits as mentioned above and the car is returned.
    Good news at last! The car is vastly improved, still not running perfectly, but running the best it has since the first engine failure. Am now just waiting on a new MAF and a set of replacement fuel lines as mine have been on and off so much one of them weeps at the injector where it doesn't seal properly.
    Am i getting somewhere? God I hope so. I am hoping that with the last two things to do the car will finally be back to it former glory"
  27. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    :arco:I can now report that normal service has been resumed, the car is going like stink, no smoke, grin factor has now returned.
  28. Marc1
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    Marc1 Member

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    Pleased to hear it mate - and at last! Hope you get another 198,000 happy miles out of it, you deserve it for your patience.

    QuattroJames - any happy news from your side mate?
  29. Ozzyallroad
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    Ozzyallroad New Member

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    Hi Guys

    I have just been advised that my cams are worn on my v6 2.5 TDi allroad in Australia. Is this a known issue in the UK with Audi?

    I have to have th parts shipped over from Europe and it is going to cost a fortune. Has anybody found what causes it on these engines? The car has been serviced by Audi from new and it has only travelled 130,000 kms.

    Any ideas.
  30. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes. Pre 2001 engines have had problems with camshaft wear due to a problem with the metal they are made from. Post 2001 they fixed it. However engines that have been on the long life servicing schedule suffer the same problem, not sure if this is limited to pre 2001 though. Mine fell into both categories. This problem is with this engine, it is not limited to any particular country.
    130000kms sound a bit early for this to happen. If the cams are shot then get the followers checked too. Given all the metal that will have been floating about then check the oil pump as well. I have been using Shell oils, quality pays in the long run, but also read posts by oilman on this site, he's pretty informative. Have you checked what your dealer was using?
    As you may have read above i used my local Skoda dealer who was cheaper than Audi, the techs are all VAG trained, parts come cheaper. It may be cheaper to get someone in europe to buy them and ship them for you than pay your dealer. I paid £166 a cam, what they asking you for?
  31. mikeya4
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    mikeya4 Member

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    mate, thats seriously bad luck, hope you get it sorted, nice to see someone in the truro area
  32. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Bit of research going on after a recommendation from tdiclub.com
    Injector nozzles will be well worn after 199k miles, so replace. Best option Bosio nozzles - need to get the size confirmed and someone in the UK who sells them. Everyone seems to buy them from abroad. Also need to decide if just replace like for like or put all of this together in a package and get larger ones
    FMIC - not so easy doing some research on who can design and supply
    Another turbo - 2359 or 2260? Can recommend the Garrett website turbobygarrett.com, its a mine of info.
    Remap to tie all the above together.
    Will post progress
  33. jwhat
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    jwhat Member

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    Will you not need a bigger fuel pump too? I thought that was the limitation with the 2.5's.
  34. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What i'm playing about with should only go up to around 230-250hp and recieved knowledge is that the pump should be OK up to about 250. We're not building ultimate performance here
  35. V6 Quatt
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    V6 Quatt Active Member

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    I was considering a customre-map but not sure.

  36. jwhat
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    jwhat Member

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    230-250hp should be fun, I've always wanted a 6 cylinder quattro diesel but all the issues these engines you have had put me off (as well as the €1500 a year in road tax). Keep up the updates.
  37. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    This curve belongs to a guy called voodooke from Belgium, posted on tdiclub.com. "after remap 252pk and 485NM with bigger turbo and injectors from a 2.5TDI V6 BDG 163PS":thumbsup:
    Would suit me very nicely. Am trying to find out what turbo and nozzles


    [​IMG]
  38. jwhat
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    jwhat Member

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    :drool: That sounds really good, do you have a link?
  39. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  40. quattrojames
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    quattrojames Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Interesting thread that, shame it just seems to stop just under a year ago! They seem like some knowledgable chaps there - I notice the OP is from Dorset - I wonder if he is still about..... :)

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