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2.5TDi V6 quattro Sport 180hp Turbochip

Discussion in 'Diesel forum' started by fjtwelve, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. doktorec
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    doktorec Member

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  2. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Apr 8, 2012]
    At least smokes a lot. :D
  3. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Apr 19, 2012]
  4. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 20, 2012]
    I wonder what made that block to crack like that ? I have a few AKE blocks in my shed and never seen one cracked lik that ! I have a b6 BDG on which i replaced the hollow cams to solid genuine ones+ cam rollers and lifters, i was thinking to take them off the BDG engine and keep them spare for future projects. I have about 6 AKE heads in various stages of porting.
    I have fitted the spare PP683 on a set of AFB injectors and sent them yesterday to dieselbob for pop testing along with a injector pump which needs refurbishing. I think that's the main issue with martin's a6, the race 683 are fitted into later 1025 injectors which cannot achieve the desired pop pressures + the celtic Map is ****, sorry for slatting them on a public forum but i had a look at the map with some knowledgeable chap and there's weird behaviour in that ECU ! Everything has been changed in that engine and the only thing left is the map and injectors !
    Also bought a new set of anchors but i have fitted them on my allroad instead as the a6 is not streetable as yet- i am risking getting pulled by the plod every day !
    I was hopping to have the a6 done in time for Worthersee trip but it looks like i might have to take the allroad or the b6 instead...

    [​IMG]
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  5. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Apr 20, 2012]
    nice anchors - will look good under your 20" rims :icon_thumright:
  6. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Apr 20, 2012]
    I have no clue whats the cause of. Everybody is wondering about that. It's taken out from running car so no funny stuff there.

    Do you know are the cams with the same profile on roller head than early lifter heads?
  7. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 20, 2012]
    To be honest, the later cams look like they have less lift compared to the early cams, i need a vernier caliper to measure for sure but they look smaller when looked by eye. However the rocker arm assembly is much fatter and might lever the valve to the same lift. The casts round the valve springs look different between the AFB/AKE and BDG/BDH.
    More pictures, rs6 rear ARB and bushes, new shiny rear shocks and Eibach Pro springs, still need to do the front suspension but there is some corrosion round the pinch bolt so it's a ******* to remove + i don't have much time...

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  8. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    Fitted the front springs and Sachs heavy duty sports shocks yesterday, what a transformation ! Looks mean now and handles sublime, better than my b6 avant, almost as good as my other b5 audi quattro with sorted suspension. Need to let the springs settle for a while then i will tighten everything and have a full geometry check.
    Sourced a set of AFB injectors and fitted the spare PP683 nozzles that Martin bought first time- he was kind to let them in the car together with more spare parts. Sent the injectors off to dieselbob for pop testing so hope to have them back by the end of the week.
    If i get positive results with the PP683 then i will whip the AKE injectors off and fit the race 683 nozzles to another set of AFB injectors and get them balanced as well. The engine idles better but it's still very smokey but the Celtic tune is C.R.A.P to say the least !
  9. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    I just lost my exhaust manifold and it broke my turbo, so now Diy sdi-kit. :D

    [​IMG]
  10. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    Man that sucks ! Are you gonna go larger or just rebuild the turbo to the same spec ? How sluggish is the engine without a turbo ?
  11. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    Well I can keep up with the traffic but I think it has probably something like 60hp atm or less (atleast feels so). :)
    I Didn't remove the ic pipes so it has -0.2bar on MAP. :D PRobably with good intake and with maping should found something like 80-90hp out of it :D And exhaust sound is sooooo damn loud and low. :D I'm probably going to the wg-turbo if it's no possible to fix my current.

    2.5SDI pieni ajopätkä - YouTube :D

    Heres whats up with the turbo: http://evvk.1g.fi/kuvat/Diudi/random/ahinrikki/
  12. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    are VNT vanes prone to coming off like that?? !!!:wtf:
  13. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 23, 2012]
    It's the manifold that breaks in small pieces and the exhaust gases blow them into the turbo. I had a turbo damaged by small metal pieces which broke out of the manifolds. That's the beauty with the double skin manifolds and extra heat from the bigger turbo...
  14. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    I got two new babes here. New wg garret and fixed my very custom made vnt. Guys from Finturbo machined for me biggest small-frame turbine available yet - 51.5mm/47mm. Needs to be tested. :)
    [​IMG]

    Notice the size of gt30 compressor housing vs. gt20 :D
  15. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    Good work, how much it cost you to have the hybrid done? You got that fitted yet ? I need someone to fix my gt 20 hybrid from Turbo Dynamics and i fancy going even bigger. Keeping the gt 20 for my allroad as i need that to be reliable, fitted a gtb2260 to the a6 but not fully converted yet, still working on the downpipe to link with the exhaust !
  16. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    I'm afraid I don't have time to fit it in anywhere before Friday. Damn day job! :D I had special price-tag on it so can't really say whats the complete price for anyone else. Most expensive was Garrett [tm] original vnt-mechanism. Why not to use turbo dynamics for repairing?
  17. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 20, 2012]
    Because they are too expensive and they clip the turbine wheel + the only modification they do is on the compressor side, the turbine stay the same. I would do a hybrid with a allroad turbine, spools from lower down but i don't want the turbine clipped- only reason i see is poor matching of the compressor to the turbine and trying to limit boost spikes and creep.
    In uk there are not many that understand the v6 tdi engine and very few that tune them ! If you get me a price for a hybrid to the same spec as yours i might be interested ! Wanna sell it ?
  18. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 20, 2012]
    Fitted the spare set of power plus 683 nozzles that Martin gave me with the car and just got them back from dieselbob. He tested them and adjusted the pop pressures to about 260 Bars. I will be fitting them today to my allroad and see if they run nice and balanced. The nozzles were fitted into 150 Bhp injectors and they are different to the 180 Bhp injectors bodies both externally and internally. Apparently the race 683/PP683 nozzles were designed for the older AFB 150 Bhp engine and i suspect the race nozzles are fitted in the wrong bodies hence the heavy smoking !
    Will report back with findings ! Just emailed Turbo Dynamics for a quote to repair that hybrid, if any more than £300 then i will scrap the idea as it's better to get a hybrid GTB2260 vk modded to suit for about 700 notes !
  19. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 29, 2012]
    Injectors in and running well, found a rocker arm fallen inside the passenger head- there was no wear on that cam lobe or rocker arm/lifter so it must have fallen when cranking after rebuild. Had to take the exhaust cam off to refit and needed to do it twice as i did the cam by eye and put it one tooth off. Now it's running well ! So far the engine runs well on the pp683's, no idle shudder and more power up the rev range but less torque low down which makes things interesting when towing as i had to slip the clutch a few times to get the allroad and loaded trailer moving a few times on a incline !
    As a bonus, the fuel economy is better by nearly 2L per 100Km which is very good in my book ! Waiting for a repair quote from turbo Dynamics for the turbocharger repair then i would have a remap done on it...
    Need to start saving for a flywheel, got a LUK clutch already- bought new for 23 quid off ebay ! Thinking to go single mass with a custom flywheel from TTV Racing but i dread flywheel chatter...
  20. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 29, 2012]
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  21. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    As far as i know the Valeo single mass flywheel won't work with sachs clutches as it uses their own designed clutch disc. There are differences in the clutch fitted to the allroad 180 Bhp and normal v6 tdi, the allroad has the self adjusting LUK clutch setup just like the b5 rs4. I had a few broken DMF but i thrown them in the last car i broke for spares before weighing it in at the local scrappy !

    Don't have any specs on the PP683 but they are roughly 40% larger than stock. They do feel weird though on low revs, like there's not enough fuel to move the allroad smoothly and i need to ride the clutch more often. Once the blower is on boost the old barge really takes off and i can feel the hard shove in the back in every gear. They are nowhere near the race 683 nozzles, with the hybrid from Turbo Dynamics the 2 tonnes allroad felt like a supercar !
  22. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    Sounds like those pp683 are same type nozzles what I'm using. Probably best there are available out there what comes to power/smoke. Do you know any specs for that hybrid turbo?
  23. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    Stage1

    MD438

    Brief Specifications: -

    Stage 1 � MD438

    Hi flow GT20 compressor wheel, cnc machined compressor housing, 360 degree thrust bearing, cut back turbine blades, lightening of turbine wheel for faster �spool up�, modified V.N.T. turbine housing, uprated turbine seals. Other �blueprinting� modifications. APPROX 280-300 BHP

    Please Note: This application needs exact engine management settings, up-rated injectors, free flow exhaust system to achieve these horsepower figures.

    Please note: - All specifications are for reference purposes only and are subject to change by Turbo Dynamics Ltd. without prior notice. All boost pressure recommendations are subject to engine condition and preparation. Modifications to the engine can affect the performance and reliability of the turbocharger and the related performance figures. For further information please talk to our technical staff who may refer you to one of our recommended tuners.

    Options: - All the above turbochargers can be special order and at extra cost, if not part of the standard specification. One off specifications and turbo matching also available.


  24. diffas
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    diffas Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    I found no comp/turbine wheel specs attached? :O
  25. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [May 30, 2012]
    They would not publish them as they fear other companies will copy them ! One reason is that i doubt that turbo can do 300 Bhp even with all supporting mods !
  26. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 15, 2012]
    Just got a call from Turbo Dynamics regarding the turbo i've sent and they've tried to sell me a new turbo !!! They claim the turbo cannot be rebuilt as there is damage to the turbine and VNT ring. That's why i've sent it there in the first place, i don't need a degree to know whan the turbo is fecked !!!! Robbing bastewards !
    I've just sent an email to Tom Russel and just asked for a price to fit a new turbine and just to balance the CHRA and i will do the rest ! Waiting the reply !
    Beware of Turbo Dynamics, that's how they make their money !?! This turbo has already been rebuilt twice by them, i dread to ask how much they charged Martin for it !
    The turbo has no play in the bearings, the housing is not cracked so why should not be a good core ? I'll take elsewhere as soon as i get it back, if i had a VSR balancing machine i would not need their help at all- machining is not a problem ! That's why i did not want to send it there in the first place, knowing how dodgy they are they will just trow a worn cartridge and bearings in and pretend they're the ones i've sent ! So much so for "blueprinting"...
  27. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 22, 2013]
    Finally after 4 months just got re-united with my old Turbo Dynamics gt20 hybrid ! I have sent it to Adam at Tdi Turbo's in Poole/Dorset and jut got it backs today ! Credit to the man, he's done a cracking job especially as it was in hospital after Xmas for an operation ! Eager to fit it to a car tomorrow, still need to do some logging + adjust the actuator to suit the larger turbine ! Specs are GT22 turbine off a mercedes 3.2 cdi turbine with extended tip technology and twin staggered gap seals and 60mm compressor wheel- still room to improve there- Adam suggested a billet compressor wheel as there's still plenty meat left in the compressor housing !
  28. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 22, 2013]
    [​IMG]
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  29. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Mar 22, 2013]
    Nice:hubbahubba:
  30. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 23, 2013]
    Yep ! Should have it fitted tomorrow and report with results ! I am expecting it to shift really good, if it's any good then i still got the specs and see if i can get a couple more built to the same spec ! The beauty is they're plug and play and with Bosio pp683 it should do easily 250-270 Bhp ! Not too shabby considering that the same turbo with a smaller gt2052 turbine (clipped !) did make my 2 tonne allroad feel like a supercar and i had to change the brakes as i cooked them in the first 10min drive !
  31. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 23, 2013]
    This is next to a stock gt2052v, took these pictures before i've sent it to Adam Davidson !
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  32. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 23, 2013]
    All fitted and running as it should ! Went to tax the a6 in the morning and found out the MOT expired 2 weeks ago, took it for MOT and it failed on smoke- the exhaust is full of soot from running the smaller gt2052 i have fitted a while ago just to get it mobile ! Took it for a short blast on motorway and it just passed. I also raced a mate's b7 rs4 saloon and to be honest there wasn't much in it ! The actuator on the turbo is still not adjusted properly but it does not throw any overboost codes yet ! Also changed the air filter whilst at it...
    The hybrid has more turbo lag than with the smaller/clipped turbine but cleans the smoke pretty well from the race 683 injectors. The map needs addressing as well, will play with it next week when i get some free time !
  33. HerefordQuattro
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    HerefordQuattro Member

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    [Mar 23, 2013]
    which car is this on now? FJ12's? or your allroad? can you map it yourself?
  34. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 23, 2013]
    The turbo is on Martin's/Fjtwelve's a6, the allroad is in the bodyshop for full color codding...been there for the last 6 months ! I do have WinOls so i can tweak the maps myself on the fly !
  35. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 31, 2013]
    The car is running nicely and it's an animal ! However i am experiencing fuel starvation at high speeds as the engine shuts down if i do a drag race and it takes long cranking to get it running again ! I will drill the banjo bolts supply holes and then upgrade to thicker fuel supply lines and fittings + a in-line fuel pump if necessary !
  36. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 2, 2013]
    This is where i got to and replaced the in tank pump thinking it was not pumping enough. We thought it was fuel starvation or air leaking into the fuel system too, hence the replaced in tank fuel pump , pipes, filters, reconditioned VP44 and spent ages looking for air leaks. Short of fixing a GoPro or similar in the engine compartment loooking at the clear fuel line to see if there was fuel starvation, we could not figure out where the problem was. I was looking at bigger pump or additional external pump and bigger lines but never got to doing it. If you give it a blast but then keep running at say half throttle it kept going, it would only cut out if you lifted off altogether. For instance whacking it between two roundabouts you had to be careful as if you'd floored it exiting the first one then shut off to slow for the second, it would cut out as you rounded the second one. However if you floored it on the motorway then backed off a bit it would keep running.

    The first time it happened was on the dyno. I got the car started by using "start ya *******" sprayed into the air intake. The car would start almost instantly with this, but cranking it took forever. Could not work out why starting the engine with a sure start spray would suck fuel in and run, but cranking it would not.
  37. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 3, 2013]
    Martin, it's happened to me a few times so i learn to start it in gear whilst coasting + I keep some brake cleaner spray in my boot just in case !
    Went to a friend of mine to adjust the map to compensate for the new turbo but we could not read the map properly, somehow Celtic Tuning have encripted the ECU so it does not read the checksums and fueling maps and MPSS/Galeto only load 168Mb of info when it should be like 512Mb of information. Anyway, we fitted another EDC15VP ecu and started with a original map from scratch ! Wow, we took it for some logs and it's started slipping the clutch in 4th,5th and even 6th gear so taking logs is difficult as the information is scrambled. I had to revert back to the Celtic Tuning map as the clutch would not last for too long + blown a boost hose- luckily i took it off my other allroad ! Unfortunately with the new map the engine is a little more smokey under 2000rpm's but once the turbo is on boost there's no hint of smoke unless you're flat out ! Had a play with a new mercedes 6.3L AMG and i was faster from traffic lights up to 120 Mph ! This car is savagely fast with the new map + no fault codes at all !
    I will drill the banjo bolt supply line on the pump and take it from there !
    Building another hybrid to the same spec but i will use a billet 66mm compressor wheel with extended tip technology, i need to use different compressor housing though as i am not sure it's enough meat left on the housing for it ! I have pictures but my internet connection is rubbish lately and it takes forever logging to photobucket - rubbish BT infinity **** internet connection !
  38. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 3, 2013]
    [​IMG]
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  39. fjtwelve
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    fjtwelve Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Apr 3, 2013]
    I vaguely remember Celtic having real bother trying to read the VP44 programming, eventually i think they "acquired" some Bosch software from somewhere to get into it. It was either encrypted or otherwise inaccessible to start with.
    Faster than the Merc up to 120? Here we go again, i think you will find a previous post of mine somewhere above getting halfway through a post before i realised i was complaining about the reduced performance once i got past 120+. Just pinch yourself and remind yourself this is a 12 year old diesel with 250k miles on the clock.....
  40. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 3, 2013]
    As far as i know the fueling maps are written into the EDC of the pump and it's allowed to be written 3 times before it locks out/perhaps that many times the pump can be rebuilt with the original EDC ! The only trouble is diesel pump specialists would not modify the pump settings away from the Bosch specs- hence the need of fitting larger nozzles so the EDC can be bypassed and somehow "cheated" !

    Drilled the banjo fitted to the fuel supply today but still have the fuel starvation issue, i would swap the lift pump from the tank and fit the one off a 2004 allroad...i hope the VP44 pump is fine !
    This car has a freshly rebuilt engine so going for another 100k or so should not hurt her much ! There is plenty left in the old girl...

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