1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

2.5 TDI V6 cambelt change - help please!

Discussion in 'Diesel forum' started by Joni_s, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 6, 2006]
    I think i'm going to be brave and have a go at the cambelt change on my a4 2.5 tdi v6. It will be my first V6 cambelt change but i think its worth it when all parts including tools can be purchased for £200 (From GSF) and audi speicalists charge a minimum of £450+VAT in my area (south west) for the job.

    Can anybody offer advice (other than don't do it!). I know some people have done it was there a guide or a cd available that i can use to take me through each stage step by step?

    Do i really have to take the whole of the front end of the car off to do the job or is this just teh easiest way?

    Any advice? PLEASE!
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Oct 24, 2014]

  3. simonwjones
    Offline

    simonwjones Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 6, 2006]
    Im pretty sure Ive seen a full guide including photos on audiworld.com

    it may be under the A6 section though.



    Simon
    #2
  4. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 6, 2006]
    Cna you give me a link to the forum i couldnt find waht i thought i was looking for.
    cheers.
    #3
  5. simonwjones
    Offline

    simonwjones Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 6, 2006]
    #4
  6. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 6, 2006]
    its a complete git, you have to take the front of the car off. make sure you change the rollers water pump etc at the same time as it takes ages.
    #5
  7. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 6, 2006]
    No easy way!

    I did it about 2 months ago on our A6 V6tdi,lift her up,axle stands,engine pan off,front bumper,get hold of some beer crates to support the radiators that you have to swing out to gain access (you have to disconnect the coolant radiator but don't touch the air con!!!!!), I made a bar up to lock the cam shafts so that they wouldn't move,put tipex marks everywhere on pulleys,crankshaft etc and change everything,pulleys,belts (alternator,aircon,injection pump & cam belt) and water pump!!
    Take your time and you should be ok,I could have done it in a day but when it came to put it all back together discovered that the main cam belt tensioner was threaded where it should screw into the block-Wow had to retap oversize and get the tensioner bolt alterered to suite!!

    You might find this helpful http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng39.shtml but remember it's not the same vehicle.

    Biggest problem I had was getting the bloody fan off!! Thought it was a left hand thread but it turned out to be a normal one (anti clock wise to unscrew)

    Good luck and keep us posted!!

    Jason
    #6
  8. J4CK-DE
    Offline

    J4CK-DE New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 7, 2006]
    you dont need to take the rad off just undo the 8 torx45 on the front-frame
    screw in a bit of treaded rod at each side about a foot long nut on the end

    then the torx on sides one side will have to for washer bottle then
    one at the top on where the front joins the wing
    [​IMG]

    then pull forward

    then you've got enough room to get the front pully bolts off but make sure u wack ur alan key in coz they do round off if more room is needed undo the intercooler pipe
    #7
  9. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 7, 2006]
    I HAD to disconnect coolant radiator top and bottom to get access to cambelt,not a problem as you have to drain system anyway to change water pump.By not doing this you're not gaining anything just making life more complicated by not having enough room to get in there and do the job!
    #8
  10. J4CK-DE
    Offline

    J4CK-DE New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 7, 2006]
    theres loads of room atleast a foot and the extra time and fart on removing all the stuff i kno costumers wonted want to pay a extra hour labour to remove wat isnt nessacery and they way ive descibe is the way its done buy audi
    #9
  11. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 9, 2006]
    Thanks guys this is very helpful. I spoke ot gsf and they have tools ot lock the cams and crank for £22 which seems very reasonable. Is there anything else which i should be locking (injection system?)?

    Was going to order the cambelt kit from GSF plus a water pump. i believe the kit includes all tensioners and belts. Is there anything i'm missing? By pulleys are people referring to the tensioners?

    Think will plan the job in for 2/3 weeks time and allow a full weekend with all parts on hand.
    #10
  12. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 9, 2006]
    Had a look at GSF website. They list the following parts which i could change if required:

    A/C belt £5.50
    Ribbed belt £5.75
    drive belt £12.75
    timing belt £28.50
    timing belt for injection pump £11.25
    ribbed belt tensioner £62.50
    ribbed belt tensioner - injection pump £34.50
    Timing belt tensioner £39.50
    Timing belt tensioner damper £56.00
    Timing belt tensioner lever £21.50
    Timing belt idler £31.50
    Water pump £28.30

    Do i really need all of these things as the price adds up to around 400 quid inc. vat!!!!!!!!
    #11
  13. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 11, 2006]
    Jason?
    Jack?
    Kris?
    #12
  14. J4CK-DE
    Offline

    J4CK-DE New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 11, 2006]
    all depends on mileage really

    if its ur first cam belt change then i wouldnt put a water pump on
    look at A/C belt, aux belt if they arnt cracked leave them

    if u get a timing belt kit will come with belts and tensioner and guides

    then the ones you dont get just spin them listen for a noise and that theres no play in them and the same with the water pump

    and i think theres a way to check if the tensioner damper is ok or needs replacein ill try and remember to morro at work to look wat is need to do to check it
    #13
  15. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 12, 2006]
    I would change everything except ( Timing belt tensioner damper, Timing belt tensioner lever ) I have heard of a few water pumps going and breaking the belt-False economy not to change it especially with the labour involved again if you do have to for any reason later.

    Keep us informed.

    jason
    #14
  16. simonwjones
    Offline

    simonwjones Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    356
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Oct 12, 2006]
    Even if you leave out the Timing belt tensioner damperand Timing belt tensioner lever, the costs of the parts are adding up.

    Is it not worth seeing what an Independant would charge to do the job and see if its worthwhile doing the work yourself.

    Im sure someone on here has had it done on the V6 and may be able to give you an indication of what you would have to pay



    Simon
    #15
  17. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Oct 12, 2006]
    I got a personal massage from somebody last week who after changing his V6 cambelt at an independent garage set off down the road after picking the car up and it broke with disastrous consequences.

    In France dealers charge about £1000 for cambelt change with all the bits so if you are capable and do it yourself not only do you have the piece of mind that it's been done' correctly but you also save £600 as well.

    We are talking a serious piece of V6 kit here and any independent garage who is cheap is cutting corners-You get what you pay for!
    #16
  18. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 14, 2006]
    So i've decided to go for it! Next weekend is the plan for the big job i think. I've ordered all my parts from GSF. After playing them off against eurocarparts they gave me a massive discount on all of my parts which was greatly received and i've gone for everything including lever tensioner all belts etc! The price i paid for all the bits, excluding the aircon and auxiliary belt which i forgot to order at the time but including a set of rear discs, pads and a rear cv joint and ABS ring as well as a locking kit and a set of hexagonal sockets (only needed the one for the hub nut) was only £380 including VAT. Although its still a big figure I feel like i've robbed them for the amount of parts i've got! Obviously i recommend trying this with your local branches when it comes to such a costly job as this.
    My car is going to be almost new by the end of it with all these parts! Will let you know how it goes but before i begin i want to know if anybody has any tips/advice/pictures i should be aware of before beginning the job?
    Cheers for the help.
    #17
  19. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 14, 2006]
    Bloody Hell! You got a good deal there matey!!

    You will also need a special thin 32mm spanner to get the viscous fan off (normal thread-anti clockwise to unscrew)

    Have you got the tool to lock the cams??? Anti-freeze?

    Take your time and dont rush it probably take you a good day!
    #18
  20. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 14, 2006]
    just in the process of doing mine again as a bolt which holds one of the tensioners for the sepentine belt decided to snap (yes leaving part of it in still) on saturday, so i now have to remove the radiator so i can drill the bolt out, but as the front is off and i need a new serpentine belt and aircon belt anyway im going to change the cam and fuel pump belts at the same time as last time they were done was 40k ago.

    you dont need a thin 32mm spanner, i just used a normal open end one and there is loads of space.
    #19
  21. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 15, 2006]
    Giving myself a full weekend. Got the locking kit for safe measure included in the parts list above.
    Remembered the anti freeze so got that yesterday. VAG stuff.

    Thanks about the 32mm spanner will check to see if i have one - i guess an adjustable won't be good enough and maybe a bit too wide.

    Kris-tdi - i would be over hte moon if you could note down even the basic steps of the changing the belt when all hte covers are off. I think when i get there i will be ok but it would be a help if i had an idea about what i'm letting myself in for and if you have any pictures while the covers are off that would be a bonus.

    Cheers guys.
    #20
  22. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 15, 2006]
    an adjustable spanner should be fine, mine wasn't done up that tight. I will remove the radiator this time as it will make it so much easier to see. also will flush it through at the same time.
    #21
  23. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 15, 2006]
    I do hope that you have changed a cam belt before!!!! If you are only 1 tooth out on either the cam belt or the injection belt it will run like a sack of spuds!!!!!!!
    Make sure your cam tool is well locked,you can lock the injection pump with a suitable bolt or drill bit (cant remember the size) VERY IMPORTANT Scribe around the bolt heads of the injection pump pulley so that you can put them back in same spot as it's slotted & ajustable and has to come off.

    I've got one of them Tipex pen jobs to mark all pulley positions!!

    GOOD LUCK!
    #22
  24. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 15, 2006]
    When you are doing this i urgh you to check the condition of the the pulley bracket for the serpentine belt, as i have found this to be the cause of why my belt snapped / jumped off, it appears to have worn, which has led to it moving about and causing the bolt that holds it on to shear off. have just spent the last 3 evenings taking it all to bits.
    If there is some play where the bracket is bolted on change it. i will find out how much they are tomorrow when i go to order a new one..
    #23
  25. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 16, 2006]
    Jason,
    Yeh i've changed cambelts but nothing like this so it will be an experience. I have a mate on hand for advice who has worked in the motor trade for years he'll be around while i'm doing it.
    Thanks for the tip about the pulley. I will mark everything up even though i have locking tools - better to be safe than sorry.

    Kris,

    Please let me know about the pulley bracket asap so that i can get one ordered in time if need be. I'm not exactly sure which bit your talking about at hte moment as i haven't looked. Again if you have any pictures (PLEASE!) then they will be gratefully received! i'm doing the job next weekend.
    #24
  26. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 16, 2006]
    just ordered all the parts i need £75 from VW dealer. thats the pulley, bracket, bushes and all bolts etc.. not bad, was expecting much more.
    on ETKA illustraition 903-70 its parts 18-27.
    from the pic of ETKA it seems there is a bush which on my car was non existant!!! 155k of had its toll. ohwell it will all be here 2moro so will do what i can at the weekend.
    #25
  27. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 16, 2006]

    Only Follow this for a rough guide as it's not the same engine (petrol V6)!!!

    http://www.audiworld.com/tech/eng63.shtml

    And PLEASE note that on the V6 Tdi the viscouse fan is a normal thread (anti-clockwise to undo) otherwise you will be yanking away for ever!!!
    #26
  28. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 19, 2006]
    how did you get on? got all mine off but have had to stop as i need a new crank pulley, doh!!!
    #27
  29. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 20, 2006]
    I'm doing mine next weekend. Fitted new rear discs/pads and a rear cv joint on saturday as the abs ring had split and was spinning around inside the hub. Also had to fit a track rod end but now i have 13 months MOT.

    Had a look at the assembly you talk about for the serpentine belt. Makes me wonder whether mine might be in a similar state as its covered 147k. 45k since last camblet change which probably didnt include all tensioners etc (as only bought car £17k ago) so i feel like i'm driving on thin ice at the moment until the weekend.

    What were the condition of your v belt/s relay rollers/tensioners like? I might try to get them before i carry the work out in case i have to change one as i want to get the whole job completed in one weekend.

    Back to the serpentine pulley assembly.... as my bolt hasn't snapped do u think its still advisable to change the bushes and possibly the pulley (if theres any noise/play). Jason - how was your car when you did this and at what mileage?

    Which crank pulley are you talking about Chris? When you refer to pulleys i'm assuming you mean rollers? Can you point out hte part number at the following link http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/au/A4Q/1998/219/49/2643305/ '

    Cheers, John
    #28
  30. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 20, 2006]
    Pics aren't working on that site.
    I would make sure it is all secure, when mine failed the belt came off, this has got stuck forcing the engine to stop, this inturn has knocked the timing out and ripped the locator of the inside of the crank pulley (where the cambelt goes on the crank) luckily the engine was only on start up (and didnt actually start when this happened) so im hoping the valves are ok, only one way to find out. rollers were all ok as they were changed 40k ago.

    If the pulley for the sepentine belt is ok then i wouldnt bother changing it, i have a feeling the bracket bolt on mine has been broken for some time as the broken bolt was covered in dirt. ill take some pics later showing what parts i meen.
    #29
  31. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 20, 2006]
    http://www.vagcat.com/epc/cat/au/A4Q/1998/219/57/2661085/

    i think i got the link wrong. Try the above one. Can you confirm that i'm talking about the right bushes i reckon they will be worth getting after what you have said.

    The bloke who did my MOT said if the cambelt snapped etc on the AFB engine then the valves should be ok but hte rockers may be bent. So you don't need to take off the heads - at least i think thats what he said. I can check with him if you have got a problem. Fingers crossed mate.
    #30
  32. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 20, 2006]
    says you have to be a registered member.

    to be completely honest, i think mine was a freak accident, its not something thats easy to change, you have to take off some complete bastard bracket which holds on the pas pump etc... its like a metal bearing thing. which what went on mine. just waiting for the crank pulley to come now, have all the other parts waiting to go on. Just out of curiousity, how did you guys get the piston for the cambelt tensioner back in? i took mine to bits, drained some oil out and put it back together, couldnt get it to push back in otherwise.
    #31
  33. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2006]
    Kris, If you aren't a registered member of the website and do not have EKTA then i would sign up to this as it allows you to see all the technical drawings for most VAG cars.

    I decided to order the bushes anyway (somebody else ahd ordered them just recently too so it probably is a common fail problem) and i'm almost certain that i'm going to fork out the extra cash to get all the rollers/tensioners for the serpentine belt so that i have more of a chance of getting the job finished in one weekend. It will prob cost me an extra £100 plus but i will have peace of mind for future miles and won't have to take monday off work in order to source these parts. Sods law will be that i need something else though!

    Can you just confirm that there is no way of changing the serpentine rollers without taking off hte front of the car? Because if you can change them easily then i prob won't change them when i do the timing belt change and will change any dodgy ones the weekend after
    #32
  34. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2006]
    Wow!!!
    You guys are getting seriously scary here!!

    Letting oil out of the damper!!!!Get yourself a new damper/tensioner as this is what tensions the belt and I'm not surprised your belt came off if you have been messing around letting oil out of the tensioner!!

    Two man job putting it back on there should be a Allen key hole in the back plate that you can force the tensioner back whilst somebody else puts the bolts back in for the damper/tensioner.Be very careful that the back plate is well seated (use a mirror) as if not it can catch on a locating peg and when you come to tighten your bolt up you will strip the thread!!!!!!!

    Joni s:No you can't get access to the auxiliary belt tensioners afterwards hence the reason you should change everything at the same time cos it's such a bitch to get at!!!!!

    On mine everything had been changed at 70K and I changed everything again at 150K and was glad I did!!!
    #33
  35. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2006]
    Jason,
    thanks for this. So where did you get your rollers for the serpentien belt? I tried GSF but they seemed to think they couldn't get them and eurocarparts only seem to have one of them. Audi prices aren't too bad and if it keeps the car going for another 70k then its worth it. I spoke to the parts guy at audi and he said even after engine rebuilds the engineers don't change all of the serpentine rollers. the only one they seem to change at all is the one where Kris has had problems but if i want the car to go on past 200k then i think it is a wise choice to change the lot htis time round. At the next change i might not bother changing the serpentine rollers - on my head be it.
    #34
  36. Joni_s
    Offline

    Joni_s Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2006]
    Just been to eurocarparts and got the pulley they had in stock and ordered the rest from Audi. I just hope the alternator doesn't go after changing the cambelt! The list of parts i'm changing seems to be endless and this car is costing me a fortune(!) but hopefully spending will slow down soon and at least i'm able to do the work myself so can't complain too much.
    #35
  37. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2006]
    i havent actually put it back together yet, the cambelt never came off, it was the serpentine belt, the piston comes to bits easily, its only held with a circlip so refilling it is not a problem. it has 2 large springs inside it anyway, so the oil appears to only be there as a lubricant.
    #36
  38. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2006]
    Sorry!Last post was a little rushed and feel that a little more precision is needed!!
    When you come to putting the cam belt tensioner back on take the damper off (unscrew the 2 bolts) make sure that the tensioner is correctly in place (check with mirror) and before tightening place correct Allen key in tensioner back plate and get a 2nd person to tension the cambelt so that you can easily refit the damper which once your 2nd person then releases the tension on the belt automatically tensions the belt correctly-Tighten everything up-Sorted!

    I know what you mean though Kris, I thought that my damper was seized at first as I couldn't budge the bugger at all.
    #37
  39. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2006]
    i even had mine in a vice at first and it still didnt budge, came to the conclusion it must on like a ratchet, only goes one way and you have to take it to bits and reassemble like on mercs etc... how wrong was i. its just spring loaded and filled with oil. at present there is not much oil in it but there is still an awful lot of pressure on the piston, managed to press it down in the vice and stuck an old rivit through the hole to hold it down until the belts on, then i will pull the pin out and see if the tension is enough, if not i will buy another.
    #38
  40. kris_tdi
    Offline

    kris_tdi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2004
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 22, 2006]
    Jason, do you know what torque / degrees the crank bolt needs to be done upto?
    #39
  41. Jason
    Offline

    Jason Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 23, 2006]
    How's it going Kris?

    Crankshaft sprocket bolt for a Audi 100 tdi but it's going to be roughly the same.

    Stage one:90NM/66lbf ft

    Stage two:Angle tighten a further 90°


    Again another 2 man job with somebody underneath locking the flywheel with a large screwdriver through the hole at the bottom of the bell-housing.
    #40

Share This Page