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2.0TDi Oil Pump / Balancer shaft problems - the definitive guide! Audi VW Skoda SEAT

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by cphaza, Dec 4, 2011.

  1. cphaza
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    cphaza New Member

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    Maybe this should be a sticky? Will clear up most of the common questions asked on all the VAG forums (ive been through them all while doing my A4 BLB balancer unit/pump):

    I spent some time on ETKA a while ago trying to figure out why some 2.0PD oil pump drives fail and some don't. The BKD, AZV & BMN 2.0 engines (which is what found their way into the 2.0 PD Octavia, A3, Golf, various Seats) used a chain driven oil pump very similar, but not identical, to the old 1.9 130hp PD engine. This never seems to give any problems. I can tell from ETKA these engines don't have a balancer shaft which I think is the key to it - it's the balancer shafts that cause the problems on the 'posher' VAG 2.0 PD diesels eg Passat, A4, Superb. By trying to make the engine more refined for the more expensive models they destroyed it's reliability in the process.

    Very briefly, the 2.0 PD differs from the 1.9 in having twin Lanchester balancing shafts which contra-rotate at 2x crank speed. The first engines used a chain drive which was a complete disaster (pictures on this website) and the later engines a gear drive. All 2.0 PD got the geared drive towards the end of 2005.

    The problem with the 2.0 PD engine is the drive from the slave balancer shaft to the oil pump, which is a piece of 6 AF hex bar which has inadequate engagement depth with the grooves in the slave shaft. It's the torsional oscillations caused by the balance shafts which destroy the oil pump coupling (the 6mm AF bit of hex) and the chain drive to the balancer shafts before the gear driven systems came out, though these still give problems with the hex key rounding. Think washing machine -> unbalanced load -> keep doing it = new machine.

    PSA had no problem at all driving their oil pump from the slave balancer shaft on the bigger HDi engines so it's poor VAG engineering at the bottom of it all - as usual.

    As I said earlier, the problem is with lack of concentricity of the drive socket into which the drive rod/hex fits. Since I've started looking at this problem, I've seen three cars where the drive socket is off centre by at least 0.1mm. In engineering terms, this is a massive defect. Since I've starting checking the concentricity, all the drive sockets in the failed units were off centre, but all the replacement balancer units were dead centre and have not led to a repeat failure in the people i have spoken too. Some replacement balancer units have now done 100k+ miles according to some garages.

    So, to sum up. You will get this problem at some point if you have a 2.0TDi WITH balancer shafts. If your 2.0TDi does NOT have balancer shafts, you will be ok. If you fit the lastest balancer shaft/ pump assembley from VAG it will more than likely cure the problem for life as they have made the hex longer and centered it all properley.

    Dealers do not admit any liability. You will not get any fiscal help with changing for the new balancer/pump unit. The fact that VAG have released and re-released different pumps/shafts/engines etc.. is "purely coincidence", according to Audi customer services! I am voting with my feet and never buying a VAG car ever again, they are not worth the extra money and the customer service is a disgrace. If you have this problem yourself, STOP driving the car. If you havent blown the turbo and your engine is not rattling you may get away with not replacing the lump, just the pump/balancer. If you havent had the problem yet and you do have a balancer shaft engine, I would advise either changing the balacer system now or getting rid of the car. From what i can assertain, CR engines are safe. Anything before that..well, Audi/VAG wont say exactley when they started to fit the units that actualy work properley.....

    GOOD LUCK!

    N.B. Thanks to all the contributers from across the VAG network and various garages
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
    #1
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  2. Wrath
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    Wrath Active Member

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    Very interesting. I always wondered why some were fine such as the Seat's. Thanks for looking into it.
    #2
  3. wazz
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    wazz Member

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    Thanks for the detailed post mate.

    I have a BLB engined A4 with no issues at the moment but I am concerned for the future.

    At this point if I wanted a preventative fix what parts (including part number) would I need.

    Is there a list somewhere that I can look at.

    Thanks

    Waz
    #3
  4. cphaza
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    cphaza New Member

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    Waz, it depends on a couple of things - do you currentley have a chain driven unit or is it gear driven? Also, VAG are constantley updating the parts so you need to make sure you have the most recent and correct one for you. They are not cheap, as such i do not want to give you a part number which is no good for you but cost you a grand! Talk to your nearest dealer parts dept and see what number they give you.
    #4
  5. wazz
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    wazz Member

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    I am assuming mines is a chain driven one. Its a 2005 A4 with the BLB engine. The service book is stamped up partly by main dealer and a couple from a normal garage. No receipts with the car. I phoned Audi and they wont send out replacements due to data protection. No idea if the parts have been changed.

    I can understand why you don't want to give part numbers due VAG updating parts.

    How about putting up a full list of parts that will be required for the swap? Without part numbers.

    cheers
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
    #5
  6. cphaza
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    cphaza New Member

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    Wazz...fella....

    I dont know every part number of the top of my head for all the bits you will need, and the bits you will need will depend on if you are merley replacing a gear driven unit with spline failure or converting from a chain driven unit, or just changing the chain/tensioner as some people do. I dont know which of those you would be doing and by the sounds of it niether do you, due to you not being sure what you have under your sump pan right now. So, the most simple solution is to give your local Audi dealer a call, they can use your chassis number to find out what you need EXACTLEY (by finding out what you currentley have fitted) rather than some bloke on the internet (me) guessing on your behalf! If like me you already have the gear driven unit, then its a direct replacement. New bolts are recommended for bolting it all back up, and while you are there you may as well do a water pump and cambelt kit. If you're on a chain at the moment, then ive never done one so dont know what the kit comprises. You should be able to find that infomation elsewhere on this site though.You will need a timing tool to get the balancer shafts timed up correctley. Again, the tool part number escapes me but can be found on ebay i think. You will need a degree of mechanical common sence to do this job as well as lots of tools. If you do not regard yourself as a competant home mechanic, i would advice you not to contemplate this job. No amount of tea and biscuits will bribe me to come and do this for/with you either :moa: I have used up a valuble weekend completing this job which could have been utilised better by sitting in my local watching the footie! Or dragging myself round Sainsburys behind the mrs......hmmm, actually......
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  7. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Member

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    This is an excellent article, thanks for "publishing" it on the forum.

    Paul B
    #7
  8. marcsimmo
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    marcsimmo New Member

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    For all you unlucky owners to have had to deal with an oil pump failure due to the balance shaft module failing in all VAG 2005 models. Including VW,Skoda,Audi and Seat. Make contact with Dominic Littlewood, tell your story to his team. Whether it be dealing with VAG or the outragous repair bill.

    Send your emails to dom@flametv.co.uk
    #8
  9. Ryan_Pestell
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    Ryan_Pestell New Member

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    Engine code 8EDOQH
    Engine blb114491

    How do I tell if it's been done ? Do I have to phone Audi? It's a 55 plate, 2006

    Also this coupled with a cvt is making me panic big time!
    #9
  10. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Member

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    There are only two sure ways to check if your engine has been modified and these are as follows;
    1) Drop the sump and have a look, absolutely fool proof check !
    2) Listen to your engine alongside someones engine who has had it done. Chain driven balance shafts have a distinctive sound even when good, they are noisier than the gear driven units,

    I understand Audi do not ( so they say ) have records of what was fitted to which engine number.

    If I had a BLB and a CVT box I would just get rid almost irrespective of any financial loss as you have a car just waiting to implode and to suck out your cash quicker than you can earn it ....................
    #10
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  11. Ryan_Pestell
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    Ryan_Pestell New Member

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    thanks for the reply paul, it was actually a car i was looking at purchasing, after so many horror stories im now only looking for a manual, and now really put off by the 2ltr TDI, to be honest its look pretty grim for audi's full stop, how can they of gone downhill so quickly.
    #11
  12. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Member

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    Ryan,

    After just spending £2000 having my BLB engines balance shaft/oilpumps replaced and having read everything I have been able to on this particular issue for the last two /three years I think its fair to say the following;

    1) 2.0tdi engines in the early 2005 B7 A4 models ( and the A6 models )should just be avoided at all costs unless the balance shaft conversion has been completed. Even then the 2006 models have had injector issues and oil pump failures.
    2) 1.9 2,5 and 3.0 tdi engines are generally fine engines.
    3) Audi do not make a strong auto box ( irrespective of them being CVT or multitronic) period. I had an Audi Autobox in an Audi 80 that even needed rebuilding back in 1993 at 60,000miles. the Gearbox rebuilder told me it was infact a Renault box used by Audi, go figure that one...........

    Enjoy your car search,if it was me I would try to find a 1.9tdi manual ,or maybe just go Japanese !
    #12
  13. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    1.9s are solid engines.
    if you want reliability go older in your car choice. theres a 1999 audi a6 110 that comes into our garage.... "afn" engine its got 320k on it now. cars had two clutchs in it, but engine and gearbox have NEVER been in bits...... serviced every 10k or less..... i personally have fitted 3 cambelts on it now.
    #13
  14. bobby25
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    bobby25 New Member

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    Hi all,

    Im just after replacing original 77mm long drive shaft for new 100mm long with new (fixed - to match 100mm hex shaft) balance shaft.

    My car is A6 C6 2007, engine code BRE (no chain), 145 000 miles

    see below video showing how hex shaft is moving inside his sprocket and some pics.

    video

    pix 01
    pix 02
    pix 03

    My opinion is if u have 2.0 tdi check condition of your hex shaft and his sprocket as soon is possible.

    Regs
    #14
  15. arrowt
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    arrowt New Member

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    anyone any idea where to get balance shaft from vw not been able to supply for 2months
    #15
  16. arrowt
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    arrowt New Member

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    mine ronded inside hex ok
    #16
  17. arrowt
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    arrowt New Member

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    mine rounded inside hex ok
    #17
  18. arrowt
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    arrowt New Member

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    55 passat just over110000 mile on clock new clutch back august turbo went october balance shaftwent in november vw unable to supply part then phoned jan 25 told try again feb when i get part and fitted the beast has got to go into vw garage for new injectors and wire harness in a recall vw uk not very helpfull only saying sorry with me waiting for shaft these 2 litre tdi are a waste have had 5 1.9tdi passats no problems never again
    #18
  19. Burs
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    Burs New Member

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    Hi everyone!

    I'm having the same problem, unfortunately. Started a few days ago by noticing some weird sound coming from beneath the engine. I drove the car to the local service, and they also say the balance shaft bearings might need replacement. I would like to believe that is true, but since they admitted they only had 1 or 2 such cases, I don't think bearings are damaged (other service told me they are ok). On the other hand, I can't find a single image or specs of it on the internet, so I can't compare and determine whether it really needs a replacement or not. Note that unlike other engine brands, these bearings can't be bought separately, so one should replace the whole unit which is way to expensive.

    This is how it looks from the inside (right side of the picture):
    http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9845/iznutraotklopljeno.jpg
    Can anyone tell me if this MUST be replaced, or it can still be ok for awhile?
    I know it would be good the replace them since I already did 200 tkm, but then again - $$$ !

    I bought a new hex bar which now sits in drive socket much better (the old one was all eaten up), but there's still some space in there (should it fit completely perfect inside it or must there be some space left?), so I think this is all what is needed.

    About the drive socket for the hex bar, how can I know it suffered too? Should it be replaced too? How can I determine that? And if it really is worn off or damaged, would it be much bigger problem than the hex bar? Even replacing the drive socket would be more cost-effective than replacing the whole balance shaft unit.

    Anyone?

    Thanks in advance for the invaluable information and suggestions!

    Regards,
    Burs
    #19
  20. audi guy
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    audi guy New Member

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    Hello everyone!

    I'm new here and I don't even own an audi. "lucky me".
    But my good friend does and he also was unlucky and rounded his balance shaft. The car is an A4 avant 2006 and motor is a 2.0 TDI, BLB code. We live in Finland and the shop gave him a quote for 3000eur. for repacement.
    I thought I would try to help the poor guy out and started browsing the web for alternatives. This is what I found:
    Ölpumpe 2.0 TDI Regeneration AUDI BLB BRE BNA BRD BPW | eBay

    They repair your old shaft, make the spline 2,3cm deeper, supply a new hexagonal shaft (10cm long) and for the price of 249eur. They will also do a conversion from chain to gear drive for 800eur. The only catch is that you have to send the shaft assembly to Germany. But hey, it's a lot cheaper.
    These gus have been doing these repairs since 2009 and it seems with very good reputation.

    My friend just sent his to them today. I can return to this forum after he receives it back and let you know how it went. They quoted 3 days for repair + shipping.

    Cheers
    #20
  21. RapidAssistant
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    RapidAssistant New Member

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    I had the BRE engine in my 56-plate A4 2.0TDI (140) - after reading all these horror stories I looked at the price of replacing the balancer/oil pump module given I was nearly at 75000 miles. Looking at a bill of well over a grand I decided to trade the car in and put the grand towards another car. Got an A3 with the 1.9TDI engine now!
    #21
  22. Gogsie
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    Gogsie Member

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    I have a 2007 Special Edition with a BRD engine is this problem likely to affect my car folks?. If it is whats the best course of action and can anyone supply part no's etc for the parts i would need to fix the problem?
    #22
  23. eddscott
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    eddscott Member

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    I think BRD have the potential to cause problems too.

    I think they knew the pump was weak so they tried to fix the problem which probably helped but was never going to eliminate the problem.

    Theres an ebay add regarding "regeneration" of the oil pumps. They seem to offer to do the job for £260 and fit a longer shaft.

    The problem here is who is prepared to take the plunge?
    #23
  24. Gogsie
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    Gogsie Member

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    Any update on your friends repair?
    #24
  25. psychopomp1
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    psychopomp1 Member

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    I don't have any problems with my 2005 B7 yet (i think its got balancer shafts) - however its only done 55k. I sent an email to my Audi dealer in Inverness and this is what their reply was:

    Am i right in saying that even an indy would charge at least 1k? What about getting a third party warranty such as gocarwarranty and pay 99 quid a year for the next 3 years (ie car would be <10 years old and have done less than 100k) and pray to god that the oil pump/balancer fails in this period? Or perhaps i can 'accidently' make the oil pump fail :moa:
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
    #25
  26. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Member

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    The price for the hardware from Audi is circa £1100 alone so I don't think your Indy can do it any cheaper than the price quoted by the Audi main dealer. I would also guess from the price quoted he is doing a discounted deal with 20% off the parts and 50% off the labour. This is what Teesside Audi offered when had my car done at the end of 2011 so I suspect it is now a nationwide Audi incentive.
    #26
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  27. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Member

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    Oops, I have just seen that your car is a 2007 model and mine was a 2005 model so it had to have the chain gear replaced at the same time. Yours will already be a gear driven unit in which cae the parts will be LESS than the £1100 figure I quoted in my earlier post.
    Apologies for any confusion I may have caused.
    #27
  28. psychopomp1
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    psychopomp1 Member

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    Thanks mate, but my car is 2005 model. I'm seriously considering taking out insurance for 99 quid per year for the next 3 years (by which time car will be around 10 years old but will have less than 100k on clock) and praying that it DOES have a oil pump/balancer shaft failure during this time and let the insurance company pick up the bill :)
    #28
  29. Wrath
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    Wrath Active Member

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    The only problem with that idea is, when it does go, if the insurance coughs up and if they do how long you will be without a car for. A colleague who used to be on this forum ended up without a car for months on end while the arguments took place with the insurance company.
    #29
  30. psychopomp1
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    psychopomp1 Member

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    Sorry if its a dumb question but how do you find out if your 2.0 TDI has balancer shafts or not? Is it a matter of simply looking under the bonnet (what to look for?) or do you need to take it to a garage who will rip the engine into pieces and charge you a few hundred quid for the privilege? In the reply i got from my Audi dealer i don't think he made it very clear whether my car has balancer shafts or not.
    #30
  31. Wrath
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    Wrath Active Member

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    Your car will have a balancer shaft. Whether it has a chain drive or a gear drive is another matter. It tends to be 2005 models that have a chain driven shaft, some 2006 models and the rest gear driven but there is no definitive way apart from dropping the sump off the car.
    #31
  32. psychopomp1
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    psychopomp1 Member

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    Took my 2005 B7 (engine: BLB) to my local VAG specialist this morning and he said its a got a balancer shaft/chain drive fitted and i will DEFINITELY get this problem sometime in the next 50k miles...and chances are i will have to fork out for a new engine :( However he said no need to replace the whole balancer/oil pump system, just the oil pump tensioner kit. He said i need this part from ebay:

    OIL PUMP CHAIN TENSIONER KIT - AUDI / VOLKSWAGEN 2.0TDi


    I've ordered this now and he's going to charge £500 to replace my existing kit, so fingers crossed. He also said its very very important i go for oil change every 10k rather than variable servicing intervals (as is currently the case), he said the vast majority of problems he's seen with Audi engines are due to people getting oil changed too infrequently (which in my case can be as much as 18k miles!).

    Will keep you updated :)
    #32
  33. _G_
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    _G_ Member

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    boomp
    #33
  34. dogg
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    dogg New Member

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    You said that BKD engine doest not have balance shaft (or at least don't have the problems) mine is BKD, in Skoda Octavia. It's really strange sound coming out, and I'm not sure if it's a balance shaft or what.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014 at 10:19 PM
    #34
  35. fossie
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    fossie Member

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    Thats sounds like its going to break!!!!
    #35
  36. KasiaMajewska
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    KasiaMajewska New Member

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    Hello,
    I bought my Audi A4 S line (2008) 4 months ago and the number of repairs I had is just astonishing. All the issues you are mentioning involved with that engine happened to me. I believe this is unacceptable as this is not a brand you would expect to disappoint you. When I called their customer service they wouldn’t acknowledge my problem even though they were clearly aware of the issues with the engine, thus, I decided to take things into my hands.

    So I decided to start up a Facebook Campaign against Audi. Audi is no longer a reliable brand. They screwing people over and they think there is nothing we can do about it. If you have ever got a problem with Audi or know anyone who have problems with that globally know car manufacturer please check and like my page...Empower the small man

    I would be very grateful if you could support my page, this is not a spam, I really want people to know about the problems with the 2.0 engine before they spend 10k. I would be very grateful if you could "like" my page, that’s all I'm asking for. /here is the link:
    https://www.facebook.com/AudidustAuto?ref=hl#!/AudidustAuto

    Best,
    Kasia
    #36
  37. buti9112
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    buti9112 New Member

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    Hey guys I am new here. I want to buy an Audi A4 Avant (B7; 2007-2008). I was planning on a 2.0 TDi with 170 Hp and maybe quattro but I am not sure about it now. Truth is that for me even the 1.9 TDi is enough .....but hey.... everybody has a dream, and mine was to have an Audi with a nice powerfull engine and four wheel drive. But than all thees problems with the 2.0 TDi made me think only about the 1.9 TDi. My question is, how can I know if a car is fitted with DPF (diesel particle filter) or not, because I saw a lot of 1.9TDi-s with and without DPF. To be onest I would avoid the DPF it just makes life more complicated. Or what do you guys think about this? Thanks for the help and sorry for being a little bit off topic.
    #37
  38. adamss24
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    adamss24 Active Member

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    All 170Bhp were fitted with a DPF, not such a major problem to be honest as it can be codded out with a remap and the inside of the filter removed so it looks like standard ! I would avoid the 2.0Tdi engine altogether if i was you and i would settle on a tidy b6 instead, 130Bhp do map well to 165-170Bhp, add a larger turbo (bv43) and a front mounted intercooler and you'll reach 200Bhp. Any more and it will require new nozzles which are not cheap or easy to replace on PPD injectors !
    #38
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  39. buti9112
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    buti9112 New Member

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    Thank you for the advice. I think I'm gonna look for an A4 B6 Avant with the 1.9 TDi and quattro but it's not going to be easy beacause those things are rare. :D
    #39
  40. erajnava
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    erajnava New Member

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    Seems like lot of people having the same issue.
    I own an Audi A6 55 number plate, done 1,000,000 miles, which has been regularly serviced according to service schedule by our Swindon Audi dealership. On Thursday while I was driving. Oil pressure light came on. So I got AA to tow the car into our Swindon Audi dealer.
    I have been advised Balance shaft and turbo need changing, costing me 4561.81 pounds, but cannot guarantee if something goes wrong with the engine later. Other alternative would be to change the engine and turbo for 7645 pounds.
    Since I have been a loyal customer I have been offered 50% discount. As mentioned above my car has been service regularly and cambelt, water pump etc was changed early. One reason I bought an Audi car was for its reputation and durability. I am a very disappointed customer among all others.

    How can we get Audi to own up to the issue and compensate for the repairs?
    #40

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