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2.0tdi ECU OBDII remap - It's here!!!

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by Eeef, Mar 17, 2005.

  1. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    Picking up on Karsci's note, Forge Motorsport are now offering what we've all been waiting for. A 2.0 tdi 140bhp OBDII upgrade.

    I'm in the process of hopefully arranging a group buy for this for either 5+ or 10+ lucky customers. I'll keep you posted.

    The increase is a CONSERVATIVE 35bhp, with some dynos having previously measured >190bhp. Not sure of torque increases.

    List price at the moment is £500=vat, not sure of discount yet but who would be interested?

    They're based in Glouscester and at present the upgrade isn't available through their distributers.

    ForgeMotorSport
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  2. Karcsi
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    Karcsi Member

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    I'm planning on RSD doing a chip-out remap for me. What strictly are the benefits of the remote method, other than it is quicker and perhaps cheaper (although at the mo it is more expensive than S'Chips)? The reduced risks mentioned on the site is a red herring, I feel.

    OK, in the future, there may be a one-click type option which you can do yourself. But at the moment?
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  3. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    The main advantage from my perspective is that other than an increment to the Flash number on the ECU (which any Audi can have) it's undetectable.

    If at a later date your ecu has to be re-flashed by Audi then Forge will redo the update for free.

    Horses for courses, you pays yer money you takes yer chances. Personal preference at the end of the day.
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  4. imported_Spin140
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    imported_Spin140 Guest

    Any warranty offered ?
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  5. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    Discussed this and short answer is no. Warranty on the software only.

    Richard did go on to say that if you had a problem then they wouldn't just leave you out on a limb. There's an element of trust which some people may be willing to take, and others that won't. At the end of the day, he is very much aware of the power of forums such as this, and said it wasn't worth the company reputation to be stitching customers up.
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  6. Karcsi
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    Karcsi Member

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    So unlike a motherboard bios, say, it wouldn't give the game away by having a completely different reference name/number? But I'm sure the same is true for a remap done with the ECU removed.

    The big big advantage is that it can be done very quickly.
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  7. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    It still takes about an hour though.
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  8. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    Who was it that had to eat their hat /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    On a seriuos note, the DSG box torque limit is still an unknown so would be interested on Forge's comments on this.
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  9. imported_Spin140
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    imported_Spin140 Guest

    Cheers for the response, I may have been tempted but I like the peace of mind offered by a warranty so will stick with my original plan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
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  10. miketweed
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    miketweed Member

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    Great - if someone hase sussed the OBDII port, then all the others models will follow - roll on 2.0T FSI version!!!

    Surely Superchips etc give a warranty because they have so blatently ruined your audi warranty by breaking open a 'non servicable' ECU and messing with it??

    A re-program via the OBD port has no risks associated with handling / damage / ESD etc and will (shortly i'm sure) be user removable with an upload/download box (as many current OBD systems are) . Therefore non detectable by Audi. But lets face it, a chipped engine driven and maintained by an enthusiast will last a lot longer than a standard thrashed / uncared for one.
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  11. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    Spin, what a re you going for? AMD/Superchip/Oettinger?
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  12. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    erm....maybe not. Forge said that there were even more issues with the 2.0tfsi than there were with the 2,0tdi...but there working on it.
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  13. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    Forge are going to send me some of their Dynos from testing so will post when recieved.
    Re the DSG they don't seem to think it will be a problem. A problem that used to exist with the tiptronics was that the torque sensor would get confused and start trying to change gear at funny times. I'm told this is not an issue on the DSGs.
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  14. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    Cheers Eeef, though I'm still wary, as the DSG has two clutches, one inside the other so the contact area of each must be less. Therefore the torque limit must be lower, although they are 'wet' clutches and not dry friction plates. Also there is an ECU for the box, so how will this react ?.

    I know that there was issues with clutch slip on chipped pd150's so if the DSG has a lower limit !

    Questions, questions eh !! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/noidea.gif
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  15. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    Strange that looking at their graph for the 2.0 TDI on their website, they state 140hp where as we know they allways produce a lot more in std. trim. So is this graph 'real' or just sales bumpfh.
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  16. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    It's just as real as all the rest I think. Whilst on the phone he did say that most were in the 150-153bhp region as standard, which when you add 35 to it = /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woohoo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yes.gif
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  17. imported_Spin140
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    imported_Spin140 Guest

    I'm going down the superchips route, it was a close call for me between Oetinger and them but as I've used S/Chips before and was satisfied this swung it for me, as for the comment about S/C offering a warranty because they wreck the audi one, what nonsense, no offence but previous car was mapped via OBD by S/C and I still got the warranty.

    The only provider that keeps the warranty intact I believe is AMD but only if booked via the dealer, RSD's is their own warranty kept in house at VAG UK HQ, lets all be honest noone wants to advertise the fact that it's been 'mapped' to the dealer, why give them any excuses to wriggle ?
    The AMD route ceased to be an option for me when I looked at the cost !

    I'm sure all these companies are equally as good as each other it's just down to personal choice but will agree that the fact that Forge have cracked the OBD route will almost certainly open the floodgates over the next few months which is great news for all of us /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif.....Oh! apart from the fact it will be even harder to decide .....
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  18. garethj
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    garethj Member

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    There is no current route to preserve the Audi warranty, some dealers will arrange tuning and turn a blind eye. That is regardless of the supplier it is not unique to AMD or any other tuner. In some European countries Audi dealers have a close relationship with ABT and do offer upgrades 'within' warranty.
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  19. Karcsi
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    Karcsi Member

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    Spot on. I've told my dealer because they do a lot of business with RSD and bottom line is, RSD warranty the ECU, the dealer will cover everything else unless bloody obvious as a result of the extra power (eg. clutch burn out).

    Strictly speaking, the dealer could wash their hands of anything remotely in relation to upping the engine power. But that would be bad business for the dealership and the tuner.
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  20. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    Got some more info for you from Forge

    Hi Martin,

    I do not have any single graph that will show torque comparison but as an example the graph on our website was a 140bhp tdi and the torque figure on the stock car was read at 251ft.lb. Audi quote 236 as standard.
    On all upgraded cars (140bhp) so far we have seen anything from 282 to 295, it just depends on the dyno on the day really. We are very conscious of premature clutch wear so tune with this as one of the highest considerations. Keeping the program as smooth as possible also helps a great deal. The 2.0tdi tunes very well as far as refinement of the program goes, they are naturally a bit smoother to drive than the 8v PD engines from the previous A3 and A4. As far as the DSG gearboxes are concerned we do not have the same issues as the earlier tiptronics, however the long term effects on the gearboxes has not yet been put to the test as they have not been around long enough. Our warranty is our company reputation and we will always do our utmost to remedy any issue that may arise. I am sure there will be existing Forge customers already on Audi Sport.net who will support our customer service claims.

    Just to recap on the offer from earlier:-

    We can give 15% discount on all ECU software upgrades for Audi Sport.net members up till a closing date of 29th April 2005. This will include all diesel upgrades from the A2 up to A6.

    Bookings or enquiries must be made via tuning@forgemotorsport.co.uk Please ask your forum members not to call our general sales telephone numbers. If they do they may be on hold a little while as the tuning and development department is in a different building to general sales.

    It would be beneficial to the customer if they can find out their ECU part number before travelling to us. This is just in case we do not have the specific vehicle covered with our current range.

    Note that we are open from Mon to Fri only and cannot take weekend bookings at this time.
    There may be up to a 2 hour waiting time for completion as we do like to carry out pre and post checks on the vehicle to be tuned. Note this does not include dyno time. It is more visual and electrical diagnostic and road test based

    Could you please ask the administrators of Audi Sport.net to remove the ban on our IP address so we can re-register. There will be questions asked when you post this information so we would like to be able to answer whenever possible.

    Also as an extra we can offer a 10% discount to forum members when they purchase Forge Motorsport manufactured goods direct from ourselves via website orders.

    I hope I have covered everything here? If not just call or email me.

    Cheers,
    Best regards,

    Richard Washbrook
    Development Manager

    Forge Motorsport
    Ashville Trading Estate
    Gloucester
    GL2 5EU
    United Kingdom

    web sites:
    www.forgemotorsport.co.uk
    www.forgemotorsport.com
    email:info@forgemotorsport.co.uk
    telephone:+44 (0)1452 380999
    fax:+44 (0)1452 386333
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  21. rickquattro
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    rickquattro Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Forge are going to send me some of their Dynos from testing so will post when recieved.
    Re the DSG they don't seem to think it will be a problem. A problem that used to exist with the tiptronics was that the torque sensor would get confused and start trying to change gear at funny times. I'm told this is not an issue on the DSGs.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Eeef

    you must have read the info on the DSG box, the torque limit and so on from the other thread a couple up from this one re the DSG re-map? This must have come from the States?
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  22. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    yeah, I was trying to confirm whether the 2.0tdi and DSG shared the same box in DSG format.

    If so then the fact that they've run a 3.2 turbo through it gives me some kind of reassurance.

    I get a feeling I'm gonna blow some cash soon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bang.gif
    #22
  23. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    How long till Revo and Apr launch there's I wonder...
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  24. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    The guy that I'm dealing with @ Forge used to work for Revo, when he left they were nowhere near cracking it...
    #24
  25. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    Hmmm now why would he say that I wonder!
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  26. Cupramax
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    Cupramax Uber pimp meister

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    Interesting. I didn't know Richard had gone to Forge... He's a top bloke from my meetings previously and somewhat of a loss to Revo I would guess.
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  27. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    You don't need one.
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  28. DaveB
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    DaveB New Member

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    I used to know Richard from Revo/old APR Europe days. If indeed it is the same Richard now at Forge? I would echo Cupramax comments and I would actually say he is one of the refreshing guys in the trade who did not slag all the opposition.
    I also used to deal with Forge quite a bit and I thought they were a Revo dealer/partner. I have just looked at their site and now know otherwise. What hapened there? Maybe this would explain Richards move?
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  29. GolfTTish
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    GolfTTish Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    Hmmm now why would he say that I wonder!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Lol, yep it seems like where ever he works he slags off the opposition. If Forge have cracked it i'm sure the others can't be far behind. Now who's gona be the first to release a upgrade chip for DSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A little off topic I know, but Japper. Do you actually know Richard.
    I've known him through his APR europe, Revo, and now Forge days, and have always found him fair and honest, as well as being a nice guy.
    He's one of the few people I've met in the tuning industry who doesn't actively slag off the competition.

    Just curious how you know him, as your experience is obviously diametrically opposed to my own. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
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  30. DaveB
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    DaveB New Member

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    I really think this is case of mistaken identity. I remember Forge being involved in some bother on the TT forum a long time ago which was a song about nothing really. Richard was not at Forge at that time though so I doubt it was anything to do with him? Richard is a pretty common name (sorry to all Richard's) so I suspect you have gotten your wires crossed?

    Just a thought...did you mean the TT forum on this site or the other site called "TT forum"?
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  31. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I really think this is case of mistaken identity. I remember Forge being involved in some bother on the TT forum a long time ago which was a song about nothing really. Richard was not at Forge at that time though so I doubt it was anything to do with him? Richard is a pretty common name (sorry to all Richard's) so I suspect you have gotten your wires crossed?

    Just a thought...did you mean the TT forum on this site or the other site called "TT forum"?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    The other TT Forum /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
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  32. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    Sorry for the delay giys, bhp and Torque dynos below.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    #32
  33. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    I take it I am missing something here...

    Theres 4 lines on the graphs. stcok, tuning box, chip and whats the fourth?

    J.
    #33
  34. wilko
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    wilko Top Gear

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    So what about the 2.0TDI manual 6speed?? Is that proven to be ok??
    #34
  35. Cupramax
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    Cupramax Uber pimp meister

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    The MQ350 manual box can take pretty much whatever you throw at it. The clutch being the weak point running out of steam at around 300lb/ft.
    #35
  36. Eeef
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    Eeef Lord of War

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    They did 2 runs with the ECU upgrade to draw an average I believe, the top two are both with the Forge upgrade are are within .2 bhp.
    #36
  37. Japper
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    Japper Ibis S3 Fan Club

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ahhh, it might have helped if i'd actually read the email as well

    here you go

    ------------------------

    Hi Martin,
    I hope you got the last email?
    I still cannot access Audi Sport but have been told by others that I am getting a personal roasting from a member. Someone has really taken a dislike to me and I have no idea why? Oh well, sticks and stones and all that.
    Anyway please see the attached graphs. These are as an example power and torque curve only. The actual figures on the day were higher than most 2.0tdi cars will make. This one was particularly good at 160bhp stock. The middle line on the graphs are from a plug in tuning device tested on the same car. I just threw it in there as it may be useful for some to see as these are a cheaper option and some like the idea of swapping it from one car to another.
    Sorry the dyno graphs took so long. I hope they help in some way.

    Thanks,

    Best regards,

    Richard Washbrook
    Development Manager

    Forge Motorsport

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As said earlier, I am not getting at the guy and didn't even mean it other than tongue in cheek. It was 'only what i read' and if it was true and others backed it up it would have given members the info to make their own judgement. Personal roasting I think not.
    #37
  38. wilko
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    wilko Top Gear

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    What other options are there?? Is there any in between 140-195bhp??? What's recomended??
    #38
  39. marriedblonde
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    marriedblonde Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    ahhh, it might have helped if i'd actually read the email as well

    here you go

    ------------------------

    Hi Martin,
    I hope you got the last email?
    I still cannot access Audi Sport but have been told by others that I am getting a personal roasting from a member. Someone has really taken a dislike to me and I have no idea why? Oh well, sticks and stones and all that.
    Anyway please see the attached graphs. These are as an example power and torque curve only. The actual figures on the day were higher than most 2.0tdi cars will make. This one was particularly good at 160bhp stock. The middle line on the graphs are from a plug in tuning device tested on the same car. I just threw it in there as it may be useful for some to see as these are a cheaper option and some like the idea of swapping it from one car to another.
    Sorry the dyno graphs took so long. I hope they help in some way.

    Thanks,

    Best regards,

    Richard Washbrook
    Development Manager

    Forge Motorsport

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As said earlier, I am not getting at the guy and didn't even mean it other than tongue in cheek. It was 'only what i read' and if it was true and others backed it up it would have given members the info to make their own judgement. Personal roasting I think not.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have actually read similar comments as well on another forum, plus I didn;t really think it was a roasting merely a comment!

    The comment I made about "i wonder why he would say that" is because a tuner is bound to say the are the first, best etc

    But at the end of the day it is each persons own money and they can spend it where they like. We now have several reasonable choices for remapping our cars and I don;t doubt for a minute that Revo, Apr, Jabba are going to be far behind.

    You pays your money...
    #39
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