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2.0L TDI 140 DSG Remap?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by AidenUK, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. AidenUK
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    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    Morning,

    Has anyone remapped there Audi A3 PD 140 on a DSG box? If so what are the results? I am getting conflicting information about the DSG box, am i right in saying the torque has to be limited on the DSG box? Overall what is the reliability going to be like?

    Who is the best tuner to go with and what sort of gains can be had on the DSG box?

    I have heard Revo can get around 185bhp out of the PD 140 using DSG?

    Just after peoples experiences and opinions.

    Thanks.

    :redrs4:
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  2. AidenUK
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    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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  3. just017
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    just017 Member

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    Not yet, but i'm looking to within a month or so. Also now thinking of going to superchips to get the DSG box done too.
    #3
  4. PTTM
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    PTTM Pedal to the Metal!!!

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    I have had my a3 tdi 140bhp dsg remapped with superchips. Absolutely fantastic difference mate. Your right they do reduce the torque a little bit but you wouldn't notice it. My car is getting the same if not better mpg as well. Get it done mate you won't regret it.
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  5. N8
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    N8 Kowalski Details VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    I'm getting a custom code phase 2 to benefit from my turboback exhaust. I'm then hopefully getting my DSG box mapped. Most generic ones are all the same.
    #5
  6. kaz219
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    kaz219 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    Hi Aiden - Didnt realise you bought an A3 - looks sweet from the pic!

    The DSG box itself can handle lots of tourqe - a ember on here is putting 360 or 380ft lbs throuigh his (240bhp) with a hybrid turbo and what not and its going strong.

    Awesome GTI also put a lot through their GTI DSG and AFAIK, it coped well as standard!

    I've had my A3 remapped and its been fine (which is more that can be said with the turbo) and I've not really come accross that many guys that have had trouble with theirs.

    HTH
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  7. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    I smell a group buy coming along soon :)

    Alot of people seem to be going for the ST3 from chipped UK lately... Although their delivery dates leave alot to be desired, the unit itself seems like the dogs.

    I was also thinking of superchips, it's the cheap side of me showing, as you can pick up a handset from a previous owner for circa £50 and have superchips reprogram it for £200 (A3 2.0TDi) alot of the mobile superchips tuners and other suppliers swear they won't but I have spoken to the head office whom confirm they will IF the previous owner provides a covering letter with the unit.... not that this policy is not open to rule bending though, I suppose all you would need is the details of said person :eyebrows: Anyroute I think the ST3 is the way to go as you get 2 maps (plus your original too).

    This ST3 can be had for £300 quid if we organise 10 people to buy, and they have just updated the software.

    BTW I tried to get the REVO 5 hour trial on my car today, but unfortunately they don't do a trial map for the TDi anymore, complaints about it effecting car or summin like that?? :ermm: ONLY THE TRIAL MAP THOUGH... The proper one is supposed to be pretty good too... But a wee bit agressive if reviews are to be believed.
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  8. kaz219
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    kaz219 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    Im not too sure on the ST3 anymore - it gives the greatest results but there are lots of people who have suffered from blown turbos as a result (including me)...

    I've got a new turbo but not sure i will be using the ST3 on it and when i emailed them to re-check my remap sent to me, got f**kall back! This was on teh fastroad map - lucky i didnt use race, might have blon the engine or something.

    Might be worth starting a poll or something to check how many people have had probs with their turbo after the ST3...

    If i were to remap my car again, Revo or APR FTW IMO.
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  9. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [Jun 10, 2009]
    Kaz what is it about the ST3 in specific that you think has blown your turbo?
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  10. kaz219
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    kaz219 Active Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jun 11, 2009]
    The sheer power and amount of boost - the car was flipping quick with a remap and i mean quick.

    I just dont believe that remaping to make a car that much faster can be reliable - a turbo had been designed to withstand twice the life of the engine and all these turbos blowng early, i honestly think it was down to the remap - ST3 in specific.

    Now, the reason i say the ST3 as their gains on their website is the highest when compared to any other remap and i believe the map was still quite aggresive in the way the power was delievered. It did feel smooth and a gradual build up but i think it was too much for the turbo to handle.

    When talking to someone from GAP Turbos, he said that remapping definitly reduces the life of a turbo as it has to work harder but if done correctly, it should still live the engine as some turbos are even designed to withstand 5 engines. My new turbo has been tested to 20,000rpm but even so, im stilll not sure about my ST3.

    Also, you should have seen the state of my blown turbo, the shaft had snapped and the propellor had been eaten up. Also, there is a control thing on the turbo and when i took my blown Turbo to be exchanegd for the new one - he said "Did your car rev up when/after the turbo blew as the boost arm is on max." I was pulling out of a Tesco carpark at around 5mph and accerated to build up speed (about 1/3 throttle) when it popped. In responce to me, he said either your turbo has been blown for a while (which it hasnt) or the car has been running a higher boost than it should. IIRC, i was doing around 2k rpm in 1st when it blew - he said the turbo should not have been boosting that much. I obviously didnt tell him about the remap as the remanufactured turbo has a warranty and i said i must have the details regarding my speed/rpm wrong.

    My car did not have any reason to blow the turbo. It has done 60k (95% motoway miles) with FSH and top quality oils etc used. i look after my car as did the prevous owner (fully warmed up before booting and cool down before switching off) i have a very "laid back approach to driving". I never boot my car in first, always let it build up momentum so the wear on the car is at its minimum and since I've had the A3, all I've done is go up and down the M62 to Uni and back at around 70-100mph. I dont drive like a gran but at the same time, i really do look after my car and the turbo had no reason to blow. I had the A3 from June 08 to Jan 09 without a prob and it has been remapped from end of Jan to Apr 23 and the turbo blew. I have seen A3s with 140k+ on their standard turbo and i know the 2.0 TDI isnt the most relaible of engines and their has been non-remap related issues with the turbo and obviously, some of the pack will suffer defects from new. I did think the turbo was a fairly comon prob but upon further investigation, i dont think it is, i honestly believe mine blew down to the remap...

    Sorry for the lengthy post but thats my reasons. I have contacted ChippedUK and heard nothing back with the reasons above. I didnt even ask for a refund, i just wanted my map checked to make sure the boost was at a safe level with regards to the tubo input as i do believe the turbo is pushed too hard.

    I wouldnt recoomend the ST3 if im honest, i think the Bluefin is abit "over-agressive" so wouldnt reccomend that either but i think Revo/custom code/apr would be my choice - Revo 1st. I know a few guys running Revos on their 2.0 TDIs (Golf and A3) and i am yet to hear them complain.
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  11. mikep
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    mikep Member

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    [Jun 11, 2009]
    We've never had a trial map for Diesels, only petrol turbo cars.
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  12. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [Jun 11, 2009]
    Ok maybe, I got what the Revo agent was teklling me confused.... But I could have sworn he said that "We don't do the Diesel trials anymore"

    Cheers the explanation Kaz. Sounds like a right knightmare.... I have noticed that on all ST3 group buys the deliver date was always later than stated, then a little BS from chippedUK until delivery arrives with them... many apologies and then people get their units.... Not a good sign for customer services.... What you describe sounds like BS though.... I would have thought any co. interested in their customers would have responded to such a serious query. Especially as it maybe down to their software settings on your car.

    I am thinking this self remap systems may not be the best thing as nobody gets to look over your car before flashing it. No diagnostics/ fault testing mechanical part check etc. I had a look at APR's website they sound like they're a good company. Revo is also an option, both switchable software.

    I like the idea of switching the map via the cruise (which I think APR do)... Cheaper to retrofit cruise than buy an sps unit.

    The more I look into a remap the more confused I get about who to go with!
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  13. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [Jun 11, 2009]
    Kaz I just had a flick through a few tuners websites and they are all quoting very similar figures to be fair to chippedUK... (I'm comparing to their fast road map). It has an extra 10nm's of torque over Revo's map but 5bhp less...

    This is very confusing, lol... I have seen many people post that stage 1 maps are all very similar and most reputable companies maps produce similar gains, all this talk of slipping clutches and blown turbo's has got me wondering is it really worth the trouble?? My car has 80k on it so it's no spring chicken... Not so sure I wanna risk it now.
    #13
  14. just017
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    just017 Member

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    [Jun 11, 2009]
    Well i'm deffinately up for a group buy if anyone wants to use AMD in Essex or Surrey. I've heard alot of good stuff about them and would trust them to do a remap on mine.
    #14
  15. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [Jun 11, 2009]
    Had my car serviced by them yesterday, and has their crazy supped up smart car while they done it... Customer service seemed good, and fella's where pretty helpful.
    I think I need to do some more reading about the wear on mechanical bits before committing though.... AMD do there own map or REVO's... With their own you get before and after rolling road tests & diagnostic, road tests etc. Sounds like the kind of thing that would see if anything would be comprimised by the extra power.

    Also hear good things about them...
    #15
  16. AidenUK
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    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    How many miles has your motor done fella? mines done 60K..

    Just a little bit concerned about smashing the box to pieces..

    Thanks
    #16
  17. AidenUK
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    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    Is it super chips that will guarantee the DSG box?

    How much does it cost @ super chips, if you don't mind me asking.. What power is the car putting out?

    Thanks for the reply!
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  18. AidenUK
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    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    Had the A3 for about 6 weeks now, it's a nice car.. Had to get rid of the TSI 170 due to getting another job with an 80 mile per day commute!

    How much did you pay for the ST3 Kaz? I have read your concerns about it so I'm unsure about the ST3 now.. What power was your TDI putting out? When you say it was properly quick, what could you compare it too, just to give me an idea of what you mean..

    Thanks
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  19. AidenUK
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    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    I think it's between super chips, Revo and chippeduk, i have heard that Revo did trials, but i have also heard that once the trial has run out it makes the car feel slower? No idea how true this is though. I could be interested in a group buy.. all depends on price.

    :blackrs4:
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  20. AidenUK
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    AidenUK Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    I'm in West Yorkshire mate, no sure I'll be driving all the way down to Essex! A few lads on UK-MKIV's have been to AMD Essex and gave them good reviews though.

    :thumbsup:
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  21. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    Peak power figures don`t don`t really mean anything when trying to find a good map for a car. What you need to look at is a dyno graph showing the bhp/torque curve.

    As already stated from a Revo dealer in this thread Revo have never givern trials on diesel maps.
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  22. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    Thanks mike, I know you are well versed on diesel tuning so maybe you wouldn't mind adding your tuppence worth...

    Regarding the dyno graph's, unfortunately you are addressing a complete noob when it comes to tuning :) I have seen a dyno graph of the Bluefin Superchips map which almost mimicked the OG softwares curves, but just more power. My mac doesn't want me to view the REVO graph so doesn't bother loading it up! PITA but hey...

    So...

    What is it I should be looking for within the graphs?

    Whom would you recommend for a stage1 map? Without the need to upgrade turbo etc.

    What other simple mods (no hybrid turbo stuff etc) would complement the stage1 map? I read panel filter, decat and rear box are good.

    Cheers!
    #22
  23. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [Jun 12, 2009]
    If you want to look at good remaps just look at Superchips stuff. I like Superchips because they are very open and honest with their figures and show prower graphs for most of their maps so you can see what your getting. Superchips also warrenty their work against breaking and mechanical parts like turbos etc so anyone that has a new car under factory warrenty has nothing to worry about with getting a Superchips remap as if anything goes wrong either the dealer or Superchips should still sort it out. For you average person driving on the road what you want to see is the OEM power curve heigher up the bhp range and any flat spots or spikes smothed out. Revo is just far to dear for what it is plus Revo is known to be an aggresive type of map. Even though i am well known for my dislike of JBS Custom Code do produce some very good diesel maps and at only about £300 is very well priced plus they have a mobile mapping service where an agent will come to you and map your car. Chipped UK are OKish i guess but have serveral friends that have bought maps on group buys for different cars which where not great maps or paid for three maps ecomany,road and race with there beeing very little difference in them apart from just running slightly more boost. Chipped UK run a franchise system so you would be very surprised how many so called custom tuning places actually just buy their maps direct from Chipped UK then call them their own.
    The main thing to compliment a stage one map would be to replace the stock restrictive exhaust back box with a more free flow one or just replace the whole exhaust. When replacing the exhaust with an "uprated" on the replacement exhaust will follow the exact same route under the car and will be the same bore size +- 1mm or the stock item anyway. Fitting a panel filter is next which even if it doesn`t make any power difference you will earn your money back over time by not having to buy replacement paper filters.
    Hope this helps and this is just my opinion.
    #23
  24. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [Jun 13, 2009]
    Hi Mikey,

    I did notice superchips are the official race partner/ tuner for Volkswagen Racing so I am assuming they know VAG engines pretty well. They were one of the first I looked at, with a graph as you describe OEM in pattern with more BHP/ Torque and what seems like a smoother delivery of this.

    My car is at an 05' with 80k (mostly motorway if previous owner is to be beleievd) I have a warranty but it's not from Audi, this is why I wanted a map that was not aggressive on the mechanical bits & I could remove at will, in case if mechanical failure... This way I increase my chances to 'slight' that they'll will pay out :) lol!

    I've seen some good feedback from people that have tuned with custom code, can't see a graph on their website although I note on their website they tune the PD140 for smooth power delivery and to minimize torque spike. They offer switchable map via VAGCOM but I am not sure if they're self removable.

    Do you have any recommendations for a mid range back box, something that delivers a nice growl when opened up, not chav/ boy racer stylee... something a bit more refined :D lmao... Will also look into a green panel filter. , They seem like the way forward from what I have read.

    AidenUK sorry for the hijack! Hope you could gleen some good info from these exchanges mate.
    #24

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