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2.0 TFSI Sport DSG : Yes or No ??

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by rdlh, Jan 30, 2008.

  1. rdlh
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    rdlh New Member

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    [Jan 30, 2008]
    Have been considering an A3 sportback for some time now & have now seen a three year old A3 2.0 TFSI Sport with DSG which I am very tempted by.

    Any advice please ?

    Have read that some DSG / S Tronic cars have "launch control" feature to allow better take off - would this be fitted on a 3 yr old car ?

    Postings also report TFSI engine as being quite noisy - simply the way the engine is & nothing to worry about ?

    Any comments would be much appreciated.

    Thanks in anticipation.
    #1
  2. markwiggy
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    markwiggy Third Gear

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    [Jan 30, 2008]
    Drove one once, and bought the 6 speed manual, need I say more.

    Mark
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  3. SteveTDCi
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    SteveTDCi Active Member

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    [Jan 30, 2008]
    Own DSG diesel, love it, difficult to say if i'd have another manual.
    #3
  4. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Jan 30, 2008]
    DSG is superb, Making my next choice of car very limited
    #4
  5. jamiekip
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    jamiekip Guest

    [Jan 30, 2008]
    It's like marmite -Personally, I never really got on with it when I test drove one, though some well never look back - have a test drive, but be warned, for me DSG was cool for a couple of hours (had a loaner for a weekend with DSG) and I thought it was great, but then it started kicking down when I didn't want it, or the paddles aren't quite where you expect it when you're turning the steering wheel and I ended up feeling it just wasn't for me. Basically make sure you have a good run in one to be sure!!!
    #5
  6. markwiggy
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    markwiggy Third Gear

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    [Jan 30, 2008]
    Has anyone noticed on a 20T DSG a big hesitation after depressing the throttle and anything actually happening, found it most un-nerving when exiting a corner flooring it and having to wait for what seemed like an eternity for the power to come in,and it wasn't turbo lag. Was it just the demo I drove??

    Mark
    #6
  7. rob1210
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    rob1210 Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    I think the DSG works well as an auto box that can be switched to manual. If you want to drive it all day as a manual on the paddles you may be better to buy the manual. (make sense?).

    Personally I bought the DSG because I wanted an auto box and it's good to drive on the paddles when the conditions are right (country lanes etc) and it's still a lot of fun.
    #7
  8. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    HUGE vote against DSG here.
    If my three year old car is anything to go by, DSG gets worth with age too.
    #8
  9. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    No that's what I labelled 'DSG delay' three years ago.
    #9
  10. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    I'm sure Bowfer won't agree, but personally I find you can get far better response from a DSG equipped car by applying the throttle pedal more gradually than 'flooring it'.
    #10
  11. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    Test drove a 170 DSG before going for the S3... disapointed, gutless (maybe it's the DSG that made car feel that way... dont know) and soulless... all due to DSG at least for me... but I'm sure for town drving a auto can be very rewarding

    Pedro
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  12. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    Which is merely a 'workaround' to a problem.
    I'm sure you wouldn't be so willing to workaround other problems.

    "There's a delay when you slam the brakes on"
    "Try not to slam them on"
    "err..."
    #12
  13. rob1210
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    rob1210 Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    I don't recognize and of these DSG "problems", maybe they have improved it on newer cars?
    #13
  14. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    The main reason why I changed to a DSG in the first place was that Audi manual gearboxes were so horrible. Maybe it was related to the clutch or even my shorter than average legs and the need in an Audi to have the clutch pedal right down on the floor to prevent the problems of not being able to engage 1st or reverse gear without releasing the clutch and put the pedal down again. Could be the same reason the manual box nearly always 'graunched' when engaging reverse, despite it having syncromesh on reverse gear. Never had any problems with manual gearboxes in other cars.

    So my 'workaround' was to think about an auto box as I liked everything about the Audis other than the manual gearbox/clutch. But I tried the multi-tronic on a A4 and it was OK but seem very detached with the speed of the engine not directly related to the speed of the car. Then Audi decided to fit the DSG to some A3 models instead of the normal auto and I tried one and have never looked back.
    #14
  15. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    Since it's original introduction in 02/03 their have been 29 different versions of the DSG fitted to various models in the A3 range to date.
    #15
  16. rob1210
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    rob1210 Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    How do you know that Dave?
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  17. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    I looked at my copy of the electronic workshop manual and it lists 29 different codes for the DSG gearbox since 02/03. My original 2004 2.0TDI-140 has a DSG code of HLE (probably the same as Bowfers) and my current 170 has then code JPQ.

    If you want to know which code your car has look on the vehicle indentication sticker on the inside cover of your service book or under the cover in the boot area. At the beginning of the 5th line will be a 3 letter engine code and at the end of the same line will be the 3 letter gearbox code.
    #17
  18. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    knew this one was going to get interesting

    There are workarounds for manuals too, covering the clutch to remove the driveline shunt when slowing down is an acceptable workaround that most agree is needed
    #18
  19. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    Don't start me on driveline shunt, because DSG is hardly immune to that...
    Oooh, me neck...
    #19
  20. synthdood
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    synthdood Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    What do you mean by 'covering the clutch'?

    Is driveline shunt a typical VAG problem? I used to drive the old model Vectra and although my A3 is a thousand times better in many ways, the Vectra was a lot smoother when slowing down. The audi feels as if the gearbox has multiple inches of play in it while in the vectra it felt as if the engine was always directly connected to the wheels... much nicer!

    Every time my gearbox starts 'bucking' when taking my foot off the throttle I am sorry for not getting DSG. I'm glad to read that DSG also shunts, Now I am happier with my manual gearbox ;-)
    #20
  21. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    The choice of Yes or No to a DSG is very much a personal decision based on what you want from you car and the way you drive. It certainly suits what I want and my style of driving very well, but I know that it does not suit some others. An Audi manual gearbox does not suit me at all. As much as I love my A3 I would certainly look elsewhere if the only option was a normal manual gearbox.

    The most important thing is to test drive one, see how it behaves with your own style of driving. If there are things you are not keen on, but you would still like a DSG, see if there is any way you can 'modify' your own driving style to suit. If you cannot or do not want to or think you should not have to, then go for a manual.
    #21
  22. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    You get lots of 'bucking' (good description, BTW) when it changes down at low speeds.
    'D' avoids it best.
    'Manual' mode downchanges can be pretty crude at low speed.
    You can find yourself being thrown forward in your seat.
    I guarantee a driver of even moderate ability, in a manual car,will give you a smoother urban drive than DSG.
    Once your up and going, DSG gearchanges become smoother, presumably because the added momentum avoids the 'bucking'.
    But then other foibles come into play....
    (don't get me started on them:Flush: )
    #22
  23. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    Never said it was

    Said that manuals suffer from this too, My 3 series was appauling for it, my Impreza also

    regarding your driveline shunt, My A3 is ok in this area though, you need to be VERY gentle with the throttle when slowing down/pulling away but I have worked around the shunt you refer to, even in manual mode (Which I use 100% of the time)guess I've just got better car control ;) (That was a JOKE)

    Interestingly the wife always uses full auto and its fine there too, perhaps as the box doesn't "learn" my style in the morning and her style in the evening it doesnt get confused?

    synthdood - not sure if I used the correct term but my understanding of covering the clutch is the art of feeling when the car is going to shunt/buck and dipping the clutch, removing all the interia in the driveline and getting a much smoother drive, "normal" Auto's do this in the torque convertor, DSG doesnt have this of course
    #23
  24. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    I think you guys have to go either single gear or try a CVT!!!!

    My manual gearbox is absolutly normal and a pleasure to use...

    Pedro
    #24
  25. bacardi
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    bacardi Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    I'm sure it is, I didn't say it wasn't either.

    All my previous manual cars have been absolutely normal and a pleasure to use

    all have also suffered to a lesser or greater extend of driveline shunt, its a simple fact, unless you slip the clutch to the point of burning, or drive a race car with no transmission slack each time you move off, you will have an uptake of all of the parts in the transmission, the gears in the gearbox, the UJ's, the driveshafts, even the engine moving on its mounts, all play a part. same goes for when you decelerate, all these parts release their inertia, and if you don't "mask" them to some degree you get whats called driveline shunt.

    I guess Bowfers point is that in a DSG, unless you're in D, it takes more effort to mask this than in a manual, where you depress the clutch. which is totally fair and accurate, however saying that manual cars do not suffer from shunt simply isnt.

    next time you're coming up to a set of lights, take your right foot off the throttle and do absolutely nothing with your left foot, leave it on the foot rest, don't use it! you will experience some driveline shunt.

    I love manuals, don't get me wrong, I do. however I drive 80 miles a day, on the A1 The part between letchworth and Hatfield is pretty pants, much of it in stop start traffic. 40 miles shouldnt take an hour and a quarter!
    When I take the wifes car to work, using my left foot all the time seems particularly pointless and old fashioned.

    I hated "normal" auto's, the way the engine note/revs never matched the engine speed actually made me feel sick (Honestly)
    DSG seems to be a really good compromise to me, I get control of what gear I'm in (To some extent - the change up at max RPM annoys the living sh!t out of me) and the engine note matches the speed

    Criticisms - the "learning" is pointless, as too is S mode, no idea what that's for, and the change up at max RPM is annoying, especially if you're trying to time it right (What's wrong with but bouncing off of a rev limiter!)

    that's it from my side though
    #25
  26. rdlh
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    rdlh New Member

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    [Jan 31, 2008]
    Thanks so much for this help & advice. Clearly I need to test drive a DSG.
    Unfortunately the car I had seen has been sold (don't know why still advertised !). Bit of a blow as was pretty much - I think - the perfect spec. I have been looking for - with the question over the DSG which I don't think I am too worried either way about.
    I'll keep reading the posts & watching the classifieds - thank you all for your comments.
    Richard
    #26
  27. rodo
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    rodo Recruit

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    [Feb 6, 2008]
    bit late in the day but i got a 2.0t dsg a3 '06. in sport i too had this hesitation problem, revs fall as i push the paddle down further, this could go on for 2 sec or more. from standing start or sometimes trying to overtake on the motorway, i thought it was dangerous. esp on or off made no difference. i took in to audi early on, and they couldn't find fualt with it, typical, the car was remapped by revo, soon after. still the hesitation, actually a bit worse. this is until last year when the car went in for a service to audi and they updated the engine software, standard procedure on older 2.0t models i think, no more hesitation, the car went back to revo, to be reflashed with theyre latest software, the car has no hesitation now. very pleased but this is how it should have been when i bought the car.

    dsg will take some getting used to, you learn to understand how it behaves, and adjust.

    d mode is good option in slow traffic, however, its to eager to get into 6th for my liking, s mode is where i get full benefits of the remap; gripe, too hesitant to change up, stays in second or third for too long and im screaming round corner at 30 mph, its embarrassing, may be something to do with remap, not sure. paddles and stick best option, however i do feel there is less power than when i'm in sport, can this be?
    #27
  28. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 6, 2008]
    Agreed. Too many people expect it to behave in exactly the same way as a manual gearbox and clutch, which it's not.
    #28
  29. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    [Feb 6, 2008]
    Speaking for myself, I didn't really expect it to behave like a manual.
    But I didn't expect it to be so flawed either.
    #29

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