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2.0 TDI TORQUE - is this car faster than a BMW330Ci ?

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by bingobongo123, May 10, 2009.

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  1. bingobongo123
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    bingobongo123 Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    I am reading reviews on websites where they are saying that the 2.0tdi 170 can keep up with a BMW330ci which is 272bhp against the audi 170bhp. they measure it against the amount of torque the cars can produce as opposed to the BHP of the car

    I am wondering if this is true and what "torque" actually means. clearly BHP is if you were to stick said amount of horses under the bonnet.

    My 2.0tdi s line "black edition" is due in less then 8 weeks

    thanks

    andy
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  3. 1animal1
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    1animal1 The Clar!! it mouves!!! VCDS Map User

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    [May 10, 2009]
    depends on which 330ci.... although id imagine the diesel would struggle against most if not all of them...yes they are quick mid range (the diesels) but it still would leave you short id guess

    I had a go with an idiot last nite in an Sline diesel 2.0... shot right up behind and tried to push me to put my foot down, i know i have an S3 but my god i absolutely ruined him
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  4. MintyS3
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    MintyS3 Works 60% the time, Everytime.

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Wrong A3 forum but torque is the important figure, its the thing that pushes the car along. The 170bhp 2.0 will have alot of it, not sure how much but probably more than the 330 petrol. This will probably give it in some gears faster accelleration.
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  5. james0808
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    james0808 Active Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Under the right circumstances the A3 might be a tiny bit quicker for a few seconds but the 330 will soon be back in front.
    My old A4 tdi 130 was remapped to 175 bhp,cant remember the torque but it was quite high and the 330ci that replaced it was faster 90% of the time.
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  6. Mason-A3Sport
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    Mason-A3Sport Audi Sport

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    [May 10, 2009]
    As what Mintys3 says the torque is the pull, the traction pulling between the wheels and the roads surface. Two mate's of mine have Golf 2.0TDI 170 and a 3 series 3 liter BMW, they have had a few races before and the Golf gets ahead slightly till about 80 mph the the BMW overtakes gradually. I've never seen then race on a long stretch yet but would be interesting to see whats happens as the 330 is only a 5 speed and the Golf has a 6 speed, also being the same on the Audi 2.0 170.
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  7. Flibble
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    Flibble Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Engine torque is NOT the important figure, despite many claims to the contrary. Wheel torque is what moves the car, and it depends on both the engine torque and the gearing. In simple terms, the more engine torque, the longer you can gear the car and the lower the revs need to be. So given the same gearbox and final drive, a higher torque engine will be quicker. On the other hand, the manufacturers know all this so don't gear low torque cars the same as high torque cars - if a car has low torque but can rev a lot, it will be geared to rev. This is why F1 cars, which produce less torque than some performance TDI engines, are still a LOT faster - you just have to rev them a lot more.

    Because of this torque comparisons are pretty meaningless, the useful number is good old BHP (or 0-60 times). So given 100 extra hp, the 330ci would leave the TDI for dust, not even a close comparison.
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  8. Black Edition Dave
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    Black Edition Dave Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    I know this is nothing to do with it but how do i start a new thread
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  9. Mason-A3Sport
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    Mason-A3Sport Audi Sport

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Click on "forum tools" at the top under "new thread" forum tools is highlighted in red, once you have clicked on it you should get a small drop down menu, click on "post new thread" give it a title and there you have it. hope that helps.
    #8
  10. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [May 10, 2009]
    The 330 would be faster than the TDI, no question.

    Some might say "but in the right gear" etc etc but thats misleading. If both cars were in 3rd gear alongside eachother travelling the same speed, and they both floored it, the 330 would get ahead and stay head.

    The Honda S2000 has about 140 ft/lbs of torque, and that will be faster than the TDI too. Torque is what the derv loving pub boasters love to harp on about.
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  11. Essflee
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    Essflee Well-Known Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    I agree...you can't put a 2.0L Audi diesel with a 3.0L bmw petrol, bmw make some awesome engines and would win hands down every time, the right circumstances the Audi may keep the Beemer in view for a matter of seconds but that would be it...
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  12. phille87
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    phille87 Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
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  13. james0808
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    james0808 Active Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Until a remapped 335i comes along and whoops the derv.
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  14. phille87
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    phille87 Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    yeah but still the guy in the TDI will laugh at the 335i's fuel costs :)
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  15. vetch
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    vetch S3

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    [May 10, 2009]
    But, thats not like for like as the petrol BMW is NA and the 3.0 oil burner is forced induction.

    A like for like comparison is the 1.8T 20V powered car versus 1.9tdi powered car. Similar displacements, both forced induction, both can be found in the same cars.
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  16. Flibble
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    Flibble Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Or 2.0T vs 2.0TDI, plenty of them around. You'll notice for instance that both the A3 2.0TFSI and S3 are quicker than the A3 2.0TDI, despite having the same displacements, and in the case of the 2.0T, less torque.
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  17. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [May 10, 2009]
    All i can say is some of these diesel guys are deluded .... Ive been in a 330ci and it would blat a 2.0 diesel to death ..Im not even getting in this deisel vs petrol thingy again because its cack.... Ok you gotta bit of torque b4 and after a map but an 2.0tfsi and an s3 and a bmw330 would beet it .... simple
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  18. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Never heard of a 170 being able to beat a 330ci or an S3, cant see it happening myself. Wonder where the original poster read that at as I've never heard of that before. Seems a strange comparison
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  19. james0808
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    james0808 Active Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    And the 335 guy will laugh at all the smoke coming from the A3 and the tractor engine sound from under the bonnet.:)
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  20. devonmikeyboy
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    devonmikeyboy As far from JBS as possible !

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    [May 10, 2009]
    With both engines in standard trim the BMW would win. In fact the PD170 engine isn`t very good as far as i am concerned ( maybe why the PD170 engine soon got dropped ) but the newer common rail design 170TDI engine is much better. If you want to know about how torque and bhp effect car performance and what the difference is HERE is a very good site to read.
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  21. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    Having driven a fair few tractors I can quite safely say my TDI doesn't sound like one.

    Come to think of it I've never actually heard a diesel engine car that does sound like a tractor :whistle2:
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  22. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [May 10, 2009]
    i have , My neighbour has a 2.0 diesel and when he goes past when im washing my car i put my figures in my ears its effin awefull the sound and for that ..YOUR FIRED ....

    [​IMG]
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  23. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    He needs to get it looked at then as there must be something wrong with it if it sounds like a tractor.
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  24. 10blazin
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    10blazin HYPERDRIVE NEEDED

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    [May 10, 2009]
    nothing wrong with it , it just a diesel ,all right il give you bmws there getting there with the sound but audi diesels still are a no no for me anyhow when they get rid of the bent tappets tractor style sound il get one .....
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  25. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 10, 2009]
    If it sounds like a tractor there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with it :uhm:
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  26. Flibble
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    Flibble Member

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    [May 11, 2009]
    I think he's exaggerating a little matt. Audi diesels sound more like a transit van to me. ;)
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  27. Lee_R
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    Lee_R Active Member

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    [May 11, 2009]
    The sound doesnt bother me, nor does the performance. Its good enough for me and not that much slower real world. I'm saving around £80 a month on fuel compared to my old 1.8 20v T.

    That cant be argued against!
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  28. Markm49
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    Markm49 Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    No smoke from a 170 TDI mate.
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  29. Flibble
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    Flibble Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    You're not flooring it enough then! :laugh:
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  30. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    The DPF seems to stop any smoke coming out the exhaust even when driving it hard
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  31. FL1X
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    FL1X Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    The 330CI would kill the A3 170.

    That said i was playing (below 60mph i will add) with a M3 down the backroads near my old place on the weekend and he would rinse me in the straights but had to brake like a girl for the corners.

    In a straight line the M3 or 330ci would win which ever way you want to look at it but in a twistie track it would be a close match the A3 can launch from a bend with fantastic traction and torque.

    To be honest it comes down to the driver not the car.


    My car: 2005 A3 140 Sline Q
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  32. Markm49
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    Markm49 Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    not sure what you mean - the 170 has a DPF so i never ever get any smoke even when redlining:uhm:
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  33. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    And I thought we were mates 10blazin :friends:lmao!! :) Its taking me a while to adjust to the transit like sound, only really here it when you stop though... When you floor it (from inside) the car anyway... sound ok if I am honest. More exhuast note than engine clanging away.

    Anybody know if a 140ps sportback should be able push a 530D sport hard? Or was this guy just messing with on my way up the M1?Didn't seem to be and couldn't shake me if his life dependend on it. Couldn't push me either when I got in front :eyebrows:
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  34. ragsterx
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    ragsterx Rear Ender

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    [May 12, 2009]
    Mid range a 170DPF engine will take a 2.0T.. Granted not top end not 0-62 but mid range it will pull away...

    I know this as i had a Golf GTi up my arse yesterday on the M11, pulled away from him no prob up to 110 but then he started to gain but still no over taking as we were doing 135 and it got a bit ridiculous.

    Engine is down to preference, i prefer the 170 in my black edition, its great to drive and the power is very good, the economy is brilliant. These are the reasons i went for the 170.

    The new diesel engines are brilliant, for all you people dissing the diesel, go and test drive the new 170 enigine and get on an open road, you will be pleasantly surprised im sure and you dont have to rev the ******** off it.

    Oh and to the people saying they prefer the 140 to the 170....erm... no comparison what so ever. All you petrol heads wouldnt choose the 1.8T over the 2.0T would you?

    Back to the origin of this thread, the 170 may be able to pull away from the BMW mid range but obviously not for long and hes gonna get past and keep going. 0-60 the BMW will whip the 170.

    Any body care to challenge anything ive said here?
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  35. ~RS~
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    ~RS~ Active Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    I don't he meant your version of the 170... the references were about the pre 2009MY version. I think yours is a newer, better version as the old one was dropped as devonmikeyboy said above

    Well you did ask if anybody would like to challenge what you said :/
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  36. Matt
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    Matt Active Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    Same applies for the old 140 vs old 170 though.

    It was only dropped because they brought the common rail version out. Same reason they 'dropped' the old 140. Because they brought a common rail version out.

    I'm sure plenty of people will challenge what you have said ragsterx. After all its a diesel, its not allowed to be good. Its the rules!
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  37. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 12, 2009]
    Yes I would. I test drove both the common-rail 140 and 170, both with an S-tronic gearbox and personally I preferred the 140. The 140 was quieter, gave better mpg, and I found that I needed to change down to a lower gear in the 170 for some corners and roundabouts than I did in the 170. I'm sure the 170 will go a bit faster at the top end but as that's over 140 mph I'm not really interested. I know several people who have found the same and I think it must be that in the CR versions the 170 has a slightly larger turbo.

    I test drove both versions, having previously owned a PD140 and when I was currently driving a PD170. The fuel consumption between those two PD versions was a good 8-10 mpg. In the end I ordered a new 140 Sportback, which I have now had for a couple of weeks and I'm very pleased with it and I must say I not noticed the 'loss' of 30 ps at all.
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  38. FL1X
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    FL1X Member

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    [May 12, 2009]
    I test drove both 140 and 170 before going for the 140 the differnce is minimal between the two in my opinion a good driver in a 140 will smoke a ok driver in a 170 so it makes no difference.

    And either way chip the 140 to 180 - 190 and your laughing at not paying the extra from audi.

    F
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  39. Caesium
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    Caesium My BM is fixed!

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    [May 12, 2009]
    Diesels are not noisy, especially BMW ones, the 535d is quieter inside than the 540i.

    Also the 535d is quicker round the top gear test track than a focus RS
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  40. ragsterx
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    ragsterx Rear Ender

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    [May 12, 2009]

    And the 1.4 seconds 0-62 difference and the fact that the mid range will pull further and get there a lot quicker... Im not sure which 140 you test drove but the one i test drove was weak compared to the 170. There really is no comparison, i suppose going for the 140 is the sensible option when going for a diesel but the 170 can still get 600 miles out the tank if you want it to and feels more sporty.

    Your not a sandal wearing moderator too are you?

    I could put my 170 against your 140 on a track, drag anywhere and still come out on top and probably enjoy the ride much more too.

    When i get to a sandal wearing age i might opt for the 140 too...
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  41. ragsterx
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    ragsterx Rear Ender

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    [May 12, 2009]
    if money didnt matter and either did fuel..
    Do you think the 2.0T drivers would opt for a 2.0T still when they could get an S3 which goes 1.3 seconds faster 0-62 and 7 mph faster?

    The difference in the diesels is big, maybe on your test drive you didnt get your foot down.

    I suppose all you 140 drivers are gonna say the 140 is better.
    I truely went for the 170 as it is a better drive and has better performance, come on get back to the garage and have a proper test drive.
    #40
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