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2.0 TDI - PD170 - Injector recall and now problems with DPF - £2k nightmare

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by kolash, May 8, 2012.

  1. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    Hi everyone, I know there is a lot on here about injector recalls on the Audi 2.0 TDI engine.

    Has anyone experienced running problems or DPF problems following replacement??

    After reading about it here and checking with my local dealer recently, they confirmed my car qualified for the "performance enhancement campaign".

    The injectors were replaced and all was fine. A couple days later, glow plug, emissions and DPF warning lights all came on. After returning to Audi they replaced the "pressure sensor", updated the software and regenerated the DPF. I collected the car and no problems until 10 days later when all the lights came on again and the car had gone into limp home mode.

    Today Audi told me that the DPF requires replacement, it's not covered by the used car warranty and costs £1900. They are looking at whether they can discount the price and will come back to me tomorrow.

    £1900 is obviously a total shock and not acceptable in my opinion. I've had the car since end of Nov 2011 and done approximately 2000 miles. I've told them I should pay nothing and that they must explain how this has happened. They told me by e-mail today that the DPF was fine when it left 10 days ago and has now reached 90% so requires replacement.

    I cannot understand how under normal circumstances the DPF can go from fine to beyond repair in 10 days with no prior warning. It's not like I drove the car for weeks with the DPF warning light on!!

    I'm sure that either the recall work has caused the problem through incorrect fuel mixture, or that the DPF has always been duff and they should never have sold me the car. Not once prior to the recall had the DPF light come on.

    When I was buying the car I asked them what the DPF was and whether there were problems - I had seen something on the Audi website. They asked me my driving pattern and I explained mostly short journeys, they told me it would be fine and a regular blast on the motorway would ensure there are no problems. They should never have let me buy the car in the first place!! I know now all the true DPF problems that people experience and with better research I would never have bought this car.

    I can't afford to spend this sort of money and why should I. Any advice from others on how I can argue that they either pay for the replacement or find me another non-DPF car would be really appreciated. I see there is some precedent for them picking up the cost. My dealer has acknowledged some culpability otherwise they would not offer a discount.

    The warranty documents do not specifically exclude the DPF which I think gives me some legal advantage. A known failure not covered should be clearly stated in the policy, let alone that the problems have only arisen since they carried out a major repair on the injection system.

    Thanks guys
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  3. jrsteeve
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    jrsteeve Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    I'd stick to your guns for now and see what they offer, they should have picked it up though really, especially if they forced a regen.

    Worst case scenario they refuse to help, just have it deleted for circa £500.
    #2
    RedDejavu and kolash like this.
  4. Rom
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    Rom Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    I cant speak for Audi, as im a new owner, but i do work for Toyota.

    Firstly, thats a lot for a DPF! Ours are a lot less, even the T180 2.2 DCATs.

    Try contacting Audi UK / Customer Service. For us, there are limits to what our Managers etc an authorise with regards to warranty, as Toyota GB could just reject the claim after we have done the work etc. But we have numerous customers contact TGB direct, who then authorise all sorts of goodwill work.
    Toyotas warranty is pretty good though, no idea on Audi. But bottom line, customer satisfaction is high on the list.
    Weve had Taxi drivers, with little service history, get replacement engines at 100k+.

    I dont know enough about the 170 to get technical. I know our T180 regens the dpf itself to an extent. The 5th injector will dump fuel to clean it etc.
    But a full regen is a diagnostic tester job for us.

    When you say 90%, thats the degredation level ? Whats the mileage and age of the car ?
    ]
    #3
  5. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    Thanks mate

    Ironically I called a mate of mine who works for a Toyota main dealer and he thought it was a big price and that I should insist they pay!! However, £2k quote is the norm from what I have read on the various threads.

    I see your point on them not wanting to pick up the tab before knowing if the warranty will pay them back. I will check how to contact Audi direct.

    The car is a 2007 and mileage of 50,500, less than 2000 more than when I bought it in November. 90% mass was the term they used in the e-mail. I've read elsewhere that the car's auto regen kicks in at 40% so how on earth it got from fully regenerated on 24th April to passed the point of saving in 10 days I've no idea. It's not like I drove it round for weeks without trying to regenerate it. I am sure that the injector replacement is related.

    I think the regen works the same way in that increases fuel mixture to increase the temp.
    #4
  6. Rom
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    Rom Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    Maybe the 2K includes labour ? I read it as part only.
    I know on our T180s, its a subframe off etc job. So can rack up the hours.

    Tbh, i cant see what they could have done that would have caused it. If all they have done is replace the injectors. Thats not to say you should foot the bill.
    We get all kinds of come backs, ever since you did x, x doesnt work, x happens etc.
    Even when its not our fault (most of the time) Manager will still be accomodating with discounted parts, labour etc at the least.

    You need to kind of complain to Audi UK, bypass the dealer, thats the route id take. If they are saying its tough luck and you have to pay. Thats what customer relations department is for.
    #5
  7. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    The reason I think it's related is that I never had any problems previously, it can't just be coincidence. They said themselves there was nothing wrong with the DPF when they gave me the car back 10 days ago. Surely the injectors and new software provided through the recall have a part to play in both the amount of 'particulates' in the exhaust emissions and the when the car goes into active regeneration?

    Looking around on the net tonight there are a few people complaining of DPF problems on other VAG related engines (Seat etc) following the same injector recall.

    1900 did include labour, at least I hope it did!!

    Yes I will definitely look to contact Audi direct in the am. Cheers
    #6
  8. Sidhu88
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    Sidhu88 Active Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    duno if its much help but my pd170 had its DPF replaced once already and i've got issues with its replacement (which cost £2000). VCDS shows left bank as blocked. I'm not bothering to sort it, removal and remap once funds are in place. Good chunk less than what it costs to get the DPF replaced. If a remap isn't up ur street, then there is/are companies that will remove the DPF and install a Stage 0 map which doesnt increase power but allows the car to run without the DPF. Hope this helps
    #7
  9. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    Thanks mate. I think that's my bigger worry, even after the replacement (whoever pays) the problem returns. Have you had the injectors replaced?

    I'm worried about taking it anywhere else while it's still under warranty.
    #8
  10. DixonH
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    DixonH Member

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    [May 8, 2012]
    A friend with a Skoda VRS 170PD engine had the recall and within a couple of months had the same issue as i have had too.
    He had his DPF removed by Shark and i did mine myself and had BFT up here in the north east remove the software and the difference is immense.
    Even if Audi agree a discounted fee to do the work i bet it still costs more than the removal.
    #9
  11. c_w
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    c_w Well-Known Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    In this situation I would get the DPF removed and mapped. I had my old 170 done at JBS in Chesterfield, had absolutely no issues or warning lights (have read of many other people suffering warning lights a few months after DPF-deletes at other companies). The map is quite aggressive though but you get used to it, and the car is much much faster.

    My DPF light has come on perhaps 2 or 3 times since I've had the car 15months and always goes off after a GENTLE run on the motorway for a few miles (NOT a "blast"; this will just make it worse). But if it gets to the point where it fails to regenerate in normal driving and causes problems it's coming off.
    #10
  12. RedDejavu
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    RedDejavu Well-Known Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    remove the bloody thing asap and enjoy 200+ bhp less lag and better mpgs!
    #11
  13. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    You might want a read of this: http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/new-a3...ngine-sounding-rough-after-injector-swap.html

    This was my bad experience after the injector swap, one of the issues being that the DPF suddenly went from being good to ruined in less than 500 miles after the injector swap. Turns out one of the injectors wasnt seating properly which then meant the cylinder lost pressure, the ECU then started chucking in loads of fuel which wasnt getting burnt properly & then clogged the DPF! ended up getting a whole new top end fitted as a result all courtesy of Audi UK. Moral of the story, kick up hell with the dealer & Audi UK till they sort it :)
    #12
  14. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    The main dealer agreed today to replace the DPF free of charge. What a relief and fair play to them for considering my perspective once I put it in writing.
    #13
  15. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 9, 2012]
    You are spot on.

    I don't think they accept that there is any fault with the work they did under the recall, which is a worry as if it is the cause, I will back down there again with another broken DPF. I may call them tomorrow and ask them to double check for their own benefit!

    I will PM you as the image of your invoice is not legible on screen and I would like to show it to my dealer. It may encourage them to check now and save us both any future hassle.
    #14
  16. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 9, 2012]

    I wouldn't be able to say if the running is smoother or worse since the recall. To be honest I've always found it to be a bit of tractor as it's my first diesel. Had a 59 plate 2.0 TDI 140 as a courtesy car while the recall was being done and it was much quieter.
    #15
  17. c_w
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    c_w Well-Known Member

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    [May 14, 2012]
    Yea they are all noisy for a "modern" diesel, how you drive it makes a difference too, especially setting off. Some are also noisier than others; I've driven a "quiet" 140 and and really noisy 140. Also my old 170 was quieter than my current 170 (all PDs). But this is relative; even the quieter could still be considered noisy vs the new 58-on TDIs.
    #16
  18. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [May 14, 2012]
    CR lumps definately tend to be quieter than PD's, however if the PD is set up right & running properly there really isn't that much in it as the main noise that's being heard will be the injector function itself rather than anything else rattling.
    #17
  19. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 28, 2012]
    My new 2.0 TDI, and no DPF.

    [​IMG]
    #18
  20. max69vk
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    max69vk Active Member

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    [May 29, 2012]
    You got it removed then? How does it feel to drive now?
    #19
  21. kolash
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    kolash Member

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    [May 29, 2012]
    No it's a new car! :) PD140 engine so no DPF. Not as much pull as my 170 SE but decent enough, engine feels smoother and the handling is much better. Ride is just as good as the SE too. I had previously been put off by talk of bumpy rides on the S line.

    I dread to check if it qualifies for the injector recall!
    #20
  22. Nine Pack
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    Nine Pack Member

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    [May 29, 2012]
    KIndas makes me want to get rid of my 170 quattro. I'm looking for an S3 me thinks...
    #21
  23. Solz
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    Solz New Member

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    [Jul 21, 2012]
    Has anyone got their car sorted after having all these issues after the injectors recall.

    I have a vw golf 2.0 gt tdi 170, after giving my car in to vw for the recall, the car all of a sudden started juddering, which could be felt throughout the car and the car was smoking like hell also was misfiring. Turned out cylinder 4 has lost conpression, after finding this out i went to vw but they did not have any of it simply said nothing to do with the injectors or the recall. As i dont really know much about car i ended up giving a car to a local garage. After opening up the head turned out, i had two valves that were gone on cylinder 4, one valve had a whole in it. I forked out £1200 to have the valves replaced and have a overall head recon.

    The car has been off road since mid april, i got my car back after the head a week ago and now its back at the garage, the dpf light has come on 3 times in a week and there is burning smell coming into the car from the engine bay and also it is smoking. The garage opened the head up again and found no fault in their work carried out but when the took the injectors out, the mechanic said they think the 4th injector is faulty and as you cannot do a flow test on these injectors, the mechanic went to vw with the injectors and they go they cannot test the injectors unless their in the car and they have to carry a few tests for this.

    The car is booked in with vw for 1 aug, but after reading other peoples issues after getting the car back from the delears, im reluctant to give it to them just incase they mess something else up. Supposedly i give it to them
    i they find a fault with the injectors will they replace them free and also would that allow me to say that them
    injectors messed my car up in the first place.

    This recall has messed up alot of peoples car and making them
    fork out alot of money. Now why arent the delearships taking reaponsibility and does anyone no what i should do to solve this mess??
    #22
  24. monkeynut
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    monkeynut Member

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    [Jul 21, 2012]
    #23
  25. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Jul 21, 2012]
    my first question to the dealers would be........
    have you fitted a replacement seal kit with the new injectors?
    also when the injectors were removed was the compression seat/seal (that seals the injectors from the cylinder pressures) cleaned and have you replaced the stretch bolts that hold the injectors down and correctly torqued the new ones? they should be replaced!
    #24

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