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2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Oct 9, 2010]
    Another point about these kits is does the manufacturer know what he's doing re material selection for the gears/sprockets,if not one could have a very ,very short life replacement indeed?
    As for a rebuilt exchange motors, don't forget there a lot of these offered as such are little more than cleaned up motors from write offs with generally unknown history.I would personally prefer to have the positive drive oil pump replacement fitted to my own ( and known history mileage engine )and this is what I am going to do at my next major service ( together with the waterpump and timing belt /tensioner while I am at it).
    At the end of the day its all down to personal choice and finance. You pays your money and you take your pick.
  2. fozworth
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    fozworth Member

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    [Oct 9, 2010]
    I agree . My last blb engine did 120k ANC was still going strong. I'm not paying for something till I have to. If I get a 2k bill in the future then I will deal with it at the time. To those of you who have the well mentioned problem check Prestige Engine products and Re-conditioned engines uk both of who give you a full rebuilt motor and not just a used one .
  3. madphil
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    madphil New Member

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    [Oct 9, 2010]
    i would just like to say i have the later bpw gear driven setup the problem has now moved on from the chain to the 6mm hex drive at the back of the gears to the balance shaft / oil pump and when it fails you have to replace the lot just like the chain drive ones ,
    there are a few reports of the later type of engines starting to fail now they are out of the 3 year warranty period and NOT being coverd up by audi

    ( edit - been looking at some early posts they give a warranty of 60k for the new rebuilt engines my engine failed at 60,260 miles do they know somthing we dont ???? )
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  4. HenriEST
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    HenriEST Member

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    [Oct 14, 2010]
    Just a quick question does anyone know if a 2005 audi a6 2.0 tdi engine has the same problem?

    Many thanks!
  5. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 15, 2010]
    As I understand it, the issue does also affect A6's.
  6. FUNKYCLIFF
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    FUNKYCLIFF Member

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    [Oct 15, 2010]
    I think on the A6 with the BLk engines the problem was more with cracked cylinder heads which is on a bigger scale than BLB engine issue, i managed to get 75% goodwill from our local Audi dealer for the problem on a colleagues company car
  7. HenriEST
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    HenriEST Member

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    [Oct 15, 2010]
    Ah no! i think im gona cry!! my audi a4 is been written off aswell!!

    decisions!! its got to be a 2.7 tdi then

    cheers
  8. FUNKYCLIFF
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    FUNKYCLIFF Member

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    [Oct 15, 2010]
    My Bad BKD engines
  9. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Oct 18, 2010]
    I have been discussing the subject of 2005/6 oil Pump Failures on the B7 BLB engines today with a non franchised garage and beeen told the following ;

    Chain driven oil pump failures (on the A6 as well ) are in my sources opinion due to long life oil being used. The owners get into the habit of not checking the oil level and only topping up at the low level warning light. At this level damage can occur to the chain , tensioner and hence wear on the sprockets . Comments welcome, fact or fiction ?
  10. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 18, 2010]
    Largely a load of ****. The problem is down to the fact that the small piece of plastic is constantly under stress and as we know there is only one thing that will happen and that is, the plastic snaps.
  11. jr001
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    jr001 Member

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    [Oct 19, 2010]
    I found out about this sorry state of affairs about 6 months ago. My first A4 saloon was 2002 1.9TDI and provided me with confidence to trade in for 2005 B7 Sline saloon - Yes, with BLB engine and chain-drive oil pump. I had never noticed any change in the sound of the engine during my 16 months ownership of the BLB, but decided to take it to an INDY 9at 60k). They reported that they are doing between 1 and 2 conversions a week. I also had the lumpy idle - they suggested that was most likely the tandem pump problem. Oh, and while the work required to rectify it was being done then I may as well get the injectors cleaned too. They guy says that it sounded like I was looking at best part of £2200 for design faults.

    The tech did have a good listen and reckoned that on a scale of 1-10, mine was at 2. He said he wouldn't worry about it at that stage if it was his car, and that when the problem got worse I would know the sound!

    I phoned two head-Audi techs and finally got them to admit that 1 conversion a week 'sounds about right', having previously said they knew nothing of the oil pump issue. When I asked their advice on what I should move on to next, I was told categorically to stay away from the 2.0TDIs, even the newer ones - apparently even the gear-driven pumps are also prone to failure and even 09/10 plates have the tandem pumps sending engine oil through the fuel system. They wouldn't touch the 2.0TDI with a bargepole. I was advised to go back to the 1.9TDI engine. So, it sounded like a good time to get rid of it - a car that I had grown to really like. I was not in a position to pay out any more on monthly payments for my car so I took that advice and found a garage that was prepared to do a straight swap for a 54 plate Dolphin Grey Sport Avant, which I have always admired. The engine sounds much quieter than the 2005 BLB. The garage also changed the timing belt and alternator pulley as requested during my look at the car and I'm so glad with it now.

    The Audi techs say that the 1.9 (both old and new by the way) are pretty much bulletproof of any major issues like the one going on in this thread and that they are rarely in the Audi garage for big issues.

    I'm glad I did the swap but I'm genuinely gutted for people who have been caught out by this. At one stage AutoTrader was awash with 2005 2.0TDIs, a point which others may have noticed. In the future? I don't know. I'm now pretty familiar with the cars and bring the paintwork back to new as a matter of course and do my own brakes and servicing, so I thin I'll stick with Audi, but may look at the 2.7TDI in three years. Then again, the 1.9TDI may prove to be irresistable and trustworthy.
  12. jr001
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    jr001 Member

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    [Oct 19, 2010]
    .

    An Audi person said this to me and he throught it was perfectly plausible until I suggested that if this was the case, then why was the oil pump never declared a serviceable item? Simple fact is that Audi knew fairly quickly of this issue, and so the idea of it being caused by owners following the Audi Longlife Service schedule is not really a serious one.
  13. andyherd
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    andyherd Member

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    [Nov 18, 2010]
    Hi chaps, just read this thread and it's put a shiver down my spine. I'm shelling out and getting a 2008 2.0 TDI 140 Avant next Tuesday, should I be worried about this problem happening to me in the future?
  14. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Nov 18, 2010]
    No worries for you , its only a problem on some early B7 models (2005-2006) with the BLB engine code
  15. andyherd
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    andyherd Member

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    [Nov 18, 2010]
    Thanks, thats a weight off my mind

    Does that mean the engine has a DPF fitted and the oil pump is driven by gear not chain?
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
  16. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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  17. chaudhry
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    chaudhry New Member

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    [Nov 22, 2010]
    I had a pressure light on my a6 and the brake pedal went stiff. when i took it to the dealer they said that they will let me know after the diagnosis and i was told the next day that there is a fault with the vacuum pump and balance shaft and it will cost me in a region of £2000.then I went to the Audi UK customer service and explained them about the service history and the car itself is 3 years old only.so they said that we will take some money off the bill as goodwill gesture.Now when I was just about to go and pick the car up they phoned me and said to me that the engine is damaged and the new engine will cost me £5000.I don't know who should i contact to escalate the problem because the work they have already carried out was it needed or not and whether the diagnosis was genuine. because in this way I am paying £2000 to the Audi for the work been carried out on my car which did not have anything to do with the actual fault.I need some advice guys my car is still sitting in the garage.
  18. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 22, 2010]
    Really, the dealer should have told you the engine was damaged right at the start. Have they told you exactly what is wrong with the engine as this could give a clue to if the issue is linked. If you have a full dealer service history then you go back to Audi and see what they say.

    However, the problem doesn't sound like the problem that this thread relates to.
  19. cricky
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    cricky New Member

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    [Nov 28, 2010]
    Hi Folks, I have just had this problem with my 2.0 2005 A4 TDI , the car started to make a pulsing feeling as I was driving, so I knew something was wrong, drove it to Audi to be told that my car had this problem, but it was very rare and they have hardly seen any with this fault !! What a load of sh#t.
    Anyway, since I managed to get the problem diagnosed before complete failure, I have managed to find a guy in Coventry who has fitted me a second hand gear driven oil pump for £800 inc parts.
    I have now writted a letter to Jeremey Hicks (CEO of Audi UK) regarding this issue and am also in contact with VOSA, due to this being a saftey issue.
    If anyone else would like to drop them an email to let them know what you think, here are their email addresses:
    jeremy.hicks@audi.co.uk
    vsb@vosa.gov.uk
    be interested to know what you guys are doing about this fault, I would like Audi to at least recognise the problem and stop pretending there is n't one
  20. cricky
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    cricky New Member

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    [Nov 28, 2010]
    Hi Folks, I have just had this problem with my 2.0 2005 A4 TDI , the car started to make a pulsing feeling as I was driving, so I knew something was wrong, drove it to Audi to be told that my car had this problem, but it was very rare and they have hardly seen any with this fault !! What a load of sh#t.
    Anyway, since I managed to get the problem diagnosed before complete failure, I have managed to find a guy in Coventry who has fitted me a second hand gear driven oil pump for £800 inc parts.
    I have now writted a letter to Jeremey Hicks (CEO of Audi UK) regarding this issue and am also in contact with VOSA, due to this being a saftey issue.
    If anyone else would like to drop them an email to let them know what you think, here are their email addresses:
    jeremy.hicks@audi.co.uk
    vsb@vosa.gov.uk
    be interested to know what you guys are doing about this fault, I would like Audi to at least recognise the problem and stop pretending there is n't one
  21. fred555
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    fred555 New Member

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    [Nov 28, 2010]
    Hi everyone,I think i have the same problem, oil pressure warning light came on so turned it off straight away but my car is a march o7 reg with 75k on it,its a 170bhp with engine number starting with brd,does anyone know if this is the same problem.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2010
  22. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Nov 28, 2010]
    Not quite although a few people with the gear driven shaft have ended up with knackered engines when the teeth have become worn.
  23. cricky
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    cricky New Member

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    [Dec 9, 2010]
    Hi Folks, this problem is a complete nightmare and Audi don't appear to give a toss, but luckily for me I found an Audi expert in Coventry who converted my 2.0 Tdi BLB engine to a gear driven oil pump, basically converting it to a BRE engine, if you live anywhere near Coventry or can get your can there, I highly recomend this guy, his name is Mike and his mobile number is 07970 478931, he fixed mine for under £1,000 inc parts, with a warranty and that was including a cam belt kit with water pump.
    He also has an Ebay shop where he sells Audi A4 Tdi engines and also offers a fitting service if your engine is screwed, take a look at this link 2.0 TDI engine AUDI, BLB on eBay (end time 10-Dec-10 19:44:41 GMT) or contact him via his Ebay user name volksbreakers. Any work is undertaken and he speacialises in Vw/ Audi, in paricular the 2.0 Tdis, but will quote you for anything, give him a go.
    By the way, I am not related in anyway, nor do I have any financial interest in this guy, I am just passing on someone who I found to be great, when Audi quoted me over 2K !!
  24. steve chubb
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    steve chubb New Member

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    [Dec 15, 2010]
    I have just had the problem of low oil pressure on Audi A4
    Speaking with Audi to try to resolve
    I dont suppose you still have a copy of this pdf file. If so could you send it to me
    Steve
  25. Worthy82
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    Worthy82 New Member

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    [Jan 21, 2011]
    Hi guys,

    First post! I had no idea this was a problem on these engines (I always thought Audi = reliability!) so yesterday I bought a 2.0TDi S Line A4. I'm picking it up tomorrow but I'm quite nervous now as it has
    76k on the clock. I've looked at the videos on YouTube so I'm pretty sure what to listen out for and I won't be buying the car. If it sounds OK I'll probably go ahead with it (it's gorgeous!) and then get a third party warranty just in case anything does go wrong.

    So my question really is which third party warranty to go with? Has anyone had experience with them and can make a recommendation?

    Sorry to hear about you guys having problems, it sounds like a real nightmare and I can't believe Audi have practically gotten away with it. Why would you use plastic components on such a vital part!?

    PS - How much does it cost to have it fixed before it's gone belly up?
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  26. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Jan 22, 2011]
    AlBarker01 who no longer posts as he's getting or got rid of his Audi had a 3rd party warranty on his when it went wrong. Just be careful though as some companies have turned round and said it's wear and tear.

    The cost for me was just over £2k and this included it's new cambelt and water pump. Got it haggled down to £1850 but this is up north where dealer labour is cheaper.
  27. Worthy82
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    Worthy82 New Member

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    [Jan 22, 2011]
    2k even if it isn't broken yet? Christ. Just picked the car up, can't hear any of the chain whining at the mo, just sounds like a diesel. Going to keep an eye on it though and grab myself a warranty just in case.
  28. russwel28
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    russwel28 New Member

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    [Jan 31, 2011]
    Hi,
    Im new to this, so im sorry if i sound a bit worried, the problem is that i bought 2.0 a4 b7 tdi s-line multitronic at the weekend, it is an 08 on a 57 plate with the engine code bre. before i bought it i never looked much into the car as it was an audi so i thought there would be no problems, my last car was a bmw so i thought the reliability would be much the same, but now im reading all these horror stories and becoming rather worried the car has done 38000 and has just had it its oil change from the dealer, but im hearing all sorts from erg cooler recalls to 6 or 7 plate gears, through to chain drive breaking. could someone tell me if the car i have got has the 7 plates and the gear drive type for the oil pump and is this connected to the problem with the pump drive balancer, also how do i find out if the car has had its recall for the erg problem. any replys and help would be greatfully welcome. :wacko:
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  29. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jan 31, 2011]
    The problem with Forums of this type is it can make the best of us rather paranoid !
    You have a new car so just enjoy it...........
    The BRE Engine form an 07 model has a gear driven oil pump unlike the BLB which is where SOME people have reported serious issues (that said I know of one BLB engine with in excess of 240,000 on the clock and still running).
    The 07 Mulitronic( there were clutch pack issues on the earlier models) will also have had the Clutch Pack upgrade so again you should have as good a multitronic ( they are not a particularly strong auto box anyhow) as they have made ( just make sure the ATF has been changed at the 40,000mile intervals or before ).
    I know nothing about the ERG but hey, ignorance can be bliss ?
  30. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Feb 2, 2011]
    ive personally changed 5 of these blb balance shaft/oil pump things (at work, vag specialists in sheffield) to date. not 1 of them with over 100k on them.
    in fact, the last two, one had 74k on it the other had 75k....... i highly doubt ones made it to 240k without the conversion.
  31. farooq
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    farooq New Member

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    [Feb 3, 2011]
    Guys, hope you maybe able to help. Kinda read through most of the thread and it sounds like the problem that I got.

    Basically the engine was sounding loud even when I bought (but not to the level to cause concern) it but it had just been serviced by Audi at the time, and since then it has been gettin louder n louder with a distinct clincky/rattly sound coming from the engine. At last service had the guy look at it properly and he mentioned the balance shaft module needed replacing sooner rather than later. Anyway again left it for a while and just last week the oil pressure light came on and stayed on. He quoted me a price of about 1200 for the job, cos I've already had the cam and tensioner done so don't need that doin. And to eliminate other possibilities I've had oil changed, oil filter and oil pressure switch. But it's been parked up for a week and I'm lost without my car.

    Could somebody please advise on the best course of action. I drive an a4 sline 05 plate tdi 140bhp

    it's my day off today, and need to get something sorted QuickTime!!!!

    Appreciate any advice..
  32. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 3, 2011]
    Unfortunately there is a chance that because it's been driven after the warning signs (noise) began, you could have ruined the turbo in which case the price goes up. If not, you should get the update fitted. You can get a new chain but Audi no longer sell it direct and it just delays it happening again.

    If you mentioned the noise to the dealer to begin with you may have a chance of getting some sort of goodwill from them.
  33. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 3, 2011]
    And for info, the lowest mileage to have this was 43,000 if I recall correctly. I don't think it's mileage dependant in any case.
  34. farooq
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    farooq New Member

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    [Feb 3, 2011]
    Hi thanks for the advice.

    I bought the car private. Funnily i turned the engine on today and it sound fine there was no rattly/clincky sound comin from engine. the oil pressure light does not come on unless the car is driven. If the engine in on but car is at a standstill the light wil not appear. Only on movement does it appear. Anyway i took it down to the garage and we'll see what happens.

    I feel a part ex comin on!

    many thanks

    Farooq
  35. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Feb 3, 2011]
    actually i think theres only so many miles (dependent on how its driven) the engine can do before the plastic tensioner slipper pads gets worn and or the plastic gets too brittle. then the little slipper leaver snaps that tensions the chain. the chain goes loose (intital rattle you can hear low down in the front of the sump). once the chains loose its only a matter of time before all the teeth on the sprockets wear away. (this could take 100s if not a couple of 1000 miles tho).
    ive seen 1 sproket with no teeth on at all! just a round disc!
    also the drive to the oil pump thru the balance shaft system its mounted to, is done thru a hexagonal bit of rod. this wears out, as where the rod slots in the end of the 2nd balance shaft, it only touches on the tips of the hexagonal rod. if you know what i mean.

    no way one of these would make it anywhere near 240k based on what ive seen.
  36. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Feb 4, 2011]
    Hello Murran,

    The car in question that has done in excess of 240,000 on the origianl BLB engine is an 05 one owner company car.
    I can vouch that this is an authentic story, the owner was my boss!.

    Paul B7
  37. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Feb 4, 2011]
    Murran,
    As a point of interest could you please advise what your company is charging to replace the chain driven oil pump to a gear driven pump and typically how long you need a car for ?

    Thanks very much,

    Paul
  38. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Feb 6, 2011]
    cant believe ones made it to that mileage tbh. you sure its not been done under warrenty early on in its life?
    we've got another avant blb coming in, in about two weeks time with 108k on it. same job.......

    i think its around £1900 inc labour + vat (but i do the work, not the billing, so i could be wrong). thats with all cambelt/water pump items replaced too.
    last one we had for 2 days. but if i wasnt being pulled off the car in question to do mot's and other jobs etc, its not hard to do it in a day tbh.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2011
  39. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Feb 7, 2011]
    £1900 is roughly the same amount it cost me at a main dealer up here.
  40. Martin2001
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    Martin2001 New Member

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    [Feb 8, 2011]
    I have just had the oil pump conversion kit fitted to my 2005 A4 Avant 2.O turbo diesl, the cost £2187 inc VAT. Similar failure to others who have posted on this forum and was shocked at the cost.
    The car was bought new from an Audi dealership and is within 6 years of purchase so I intend to instigate action via the small claims court against the Audi dealership as they have written stating not their problem. They have 10 days to reply to my letter will keep the forum updated.

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