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2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    Well, got my car back today (been in for about a week) and it feels great, very tight and quiet. Feels like it's a completely new engine so will see how it goes, I do think there is a noticeable sound difference between the chain and the spur drive.
  2. onefortheroad
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    onefortheroad New Member

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    hi weggie
    Got car back to day, Well a wee bit dearer than the quote they first gave me about 2 weeks ago will put a breakdown of the bill on here if you want tomorrow
  3. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    Hi 1 for the road, I guess it was about 2k, did you get the gear as well as Nathan? Nathan was yours 2k as well?

    I think putting the full list of things that had to be paid for guys will be useful for any others with the problem, and dilemma on how to repair.

    Nath, all others with new gear report it much quieter than with chain.

    one thing that would be interesting is labour time and rates.
  4. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    Yep although, as said previous, this includes new cambelt and water pump and I agreed the price before they started work.

    I'll dig out the receipt and have a look. I believe the labour time was two days.
  5. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    Did they tell you how worn the bottom and top gear were. You might want to note this if you still want to chase Audi, if it was worn, it is further proof that Audi are deliberately lie-ing about the extent of the problem of the chain issue!!!!!
  6. onefortheroad
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    onefortheroad New Member

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    here is the list
    replace timing belt, auxiliary drive belts and any tensioners required
    replace balance shaft and alternator pulley ( still awaiting word from audi as to whether they are going to offer any goodwill on this)
    parts £1051.28
    labour £731.75
    vat £312.03
  7. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    Although it is a a kick in the teeth to pay 1 for the road, you now have a car that you do not have to worry about. Mine on the other and still has a chain!!, although a new one!..

    Mine cost me incl all oils and coolants, water pump/ timing belts and the kit, as well as hire of engine lift, the chain, gaskets and the like about £500. labour was nothing apart form 2 days off leave for both me and my friend and his goodwill. So not too bad a price I think, I see you are west coast also, where did you get it done, Audi at Braehead in Glasgow or was it an Indi? effectively 1800 without VAT. If any one in Glasgow has same problem try A for Audi, they gave me rough quote of £1500 incl timing belt.

    It will be interesting to hear what others have paid incl nathan, and also what parts they paid for and time.

    Did any one get to keep worn bits, i.e cogs ect? How worn were they. to see what
  8. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    Exceptionally irritated this morning. Had the car for two days and I go into the back of a car and have stoved in the front. end! Bonnet, wing, headlights, grille, bumper and the crash bar all screwed. Goodbye no claims!

    :sob:
  9. sline29
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    sline29 New Member

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    argh mate feel for you
    thats some bad luck after all the trouble to get the gear drive in and now this
    hope you get it sorted
    cheers paul
  10. Six-speed
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    Six-speed New Member

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    Guys,

    Just a reminder. My post on this thread last year #7.

    Audi have already set a precedent for paying up on a goodwill basis. Audi Bristol rebuilt my car's engine when the previous owner had the balance shaft thingy go.

    They paid a £893.18 'goodwill contribution', which is all itemised on the printout. They have done it, so MUSt be aware of an issue 'cos they wouldn't pay out nearly a grand on a whim methinks!!!

    My engine is 2.0TDi 140bhp, and engine code BLB.
  11. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    Nogwuy - I spoke to garage in Cardiff yesterday, they would replace engine for about 1500 and say about 100 to 200 for uplift. The also mentioned the turbo may have to be replaced. if you want details send me a message.

    link to ebay for turbo if it is fecked.
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-A4-A6-2-..._CarParts_SM?hash=item4a9c30e662#ht_694wt_734

    All Others[/B
    ]
    For all others with chain issue, this garage said they had an ingenious and lower cost method or removing risk of oil pump failure, sounded like they replaced pump with other method. I got no details on what they do but again if anyone wants info send me a message. garage said they would knock 50 off if they mentioned my referral!. Too late for me as I have already replaced the chain, but for others out there worried about oil pump failure, you may be interested.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2010
  12. Nogwuy
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    Nogwuy Member

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    So I went in to my local audi dealers to find out what I could do replacemant parts wise. Spoke to my usual parts bloke who is very knowledgeable and generally excellent. He knew exactly the problem and said they had one in just the same the previous week! He went and spoke the the technician who had done the work and pulled off a list of the parts he had used & a digram from etka. Costing £252.11 for parts (but he will give me some off that) that's for ; oil pump, follower, securing ring, chain sprocket, socket head bolt with inner multipoint head (x2), drive chain, chain tensioner, hexagon bolt for drop correction and silicone sealent. He said it's uncommon for there to be any major damage to the engine, and recommended I do the same with replacemant parts. Going to get the car in the garage, take the front end off and see what's what. Hopefully can sort it this way. I will do cam belt and water pump at the same time (£ 150 ish for parts). My man said unlikely chain has snapped, just slipped off due to wearing down of sprocket teeth with floppy chain.
  13. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    Right everybody, I've written to Audi UK with a 3 page letter over the part andmy belief that it is a faulty part (remember my part hadn't failed but I got it changed over anyway). I've had a response, they have stated that they will not change their mind, there is no goodwill, the part is not deemed faulty. If the part fails while the car is under warranty then it will be changed.

    Audi UK will only support the change over to the new gear-driven mechanism and they will not sell new chains. Garages may get hold of the chains from the original manufacturer (it wasn't Audi) or from backstock. Audi look at new technology for their new cars and may use some of this into their current models, they said that this is why they changed to the gear driven mechanism. They stated that the change from chain to gear driven was not down to any technical reason.

    Audi UK do not guarantee lifespans on any of their parts (my letter asked for the lifespan of the plastic used in the tensioner).

    Every single repair done on a car at a dealership should be logged onto their system and Audi run checks to look at clusters of problems.
  14. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    Nathan,

    Thanks very much for taking the trouble to update the forum.
    The response is not really surprising and it is not only Audi who take such a stance in such matters.
    In general I think it is fair to say ALL manufacturers treat us badly once the warranty expires.
    Perhaps one should take the approach that some engines (BLB coded ) have a "latent defect" and then lets see how AUDI respond ?

    Paul
  15. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    Did you get your prang fixed Nathan?, was there much damage?

    In terms of Audi, what can we do when they will not admit there is a common problem, and when we all know there is one, my only suggestion us to get the press involved, however if there is no danger to life and limb, press are not interested. So what about citizen rights, or use your own MP. ( its hit hit head against the wall time!!)

    As you know we all feel aggrieved that they can treat customers in this way. Perhaps the benefit of this thread is sharing experience and options for resolution. Incidentally, for those in your situation i.er BLB engine, but with no rattle. the thread on p 171 ma ne of interest. I am not sure what the oil drive option would be but i guess they may be putting in an electric oil pump at fraction of cost, this may reduce risk of oil failure , but not the rattle. if anyone does contact them, please let us know what their treatment is! They said they have done 30 cars!.
  16. andy16vturbo
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    andy16vturbo Member

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    can anyone tell me what the symptoms are of this?

    ive got a blb engine with 107k, but its using quite alot of fuel with an intermitent metallic rattle from the front. the fact its got poor mpg makes me think summit is seizing on the alternator belt ie air con pump, or tensioner as the tensioner is bouncing around in time with the rattle.

    ive heard the oil pump chain failure sounds like a grinding sound? is this right?

    need to get the alternator belt off to have a listen of just the engine running without no pumps or pulleys to drive. that'll give me a better clue.
  17. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    I reckon the insurance company will eat me alive next year when my renewal comes up. Got it back yesterday so that's just over a week. Investigating, looks like new bonnet, new grille, new wing, new headlamps, new radiator and new intercooler. Even though I can't really afford it I'm going to get an RS4 grille and put a MFSW in it shortly. I'm also going to carbon-fibre wrap my interior trim and maybe sell some trim pre-wrapped for those who don't want the hassle.
  18. Good 2 B A Gooner
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    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

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    Don't worry about your insurance Nathan - My wife parked our old A3 in the station car-park, some old pratt decided he'd park in our boot.... He didn't even move it back, just left it! We needed a new bumper as it'd cracked the paint etc.

    When we renewed our premium, we were told that it didn't matter who had been at fault - We'd still claimed! (w*nkers) our premium went up by £30, so not to bad.

    I was at the time 29 and my wife was 27 with full no claims etc. :icon_thumright:
  19. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    symptoms check

    Take the lower engine cover off so you can see the sump, place screw driver against front of the lower part of sump, and put ear to screw driver, if you hear grinding noise or the rattle of the chain, then chain is perhaps on way out. mine did not have fuel consumptions issues you mention, just rattle.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2010
  20. Nogwuy
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    Nogwuy Member

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    weggie, did you ever get pics up of your chain/tensoiner/gear replacement work? im now half way through doing the same for mine (the chain didnt snap, just the tensioner. i had something let go exhaust wise which caused my noise and lack of power, but have decided to do this aswell as cambelt etc as i definitly have the rattling chain noise). i have the front end off and am next tackling the sump. i have followed your posts on here and piston heads, there is a link to a tutorial on a passat which is helpful but slightly different. is there any chance you could post your pics or mail them to me please? how is the car going after the replacement parts? any issues?
  21. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

    For those of you that have had this fault could you please provide me with some information? Could you PM me your VIN, mileage at the time of fault and production date if known. I realise that people may not want to provide their VINs but this is specific information that I have been asked to provide. If you do not want to send me your VIN could you at least send me the vehicle engine code which is written in the spare wheel well in the boot?

    This would be greatly appreciated in my pursuit of having this fault recognised.
  22. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    I've transcribed the final letter (and removed names) received from Audi UK:

    Further to our telephone conversation of 10 March regarding your concerns with the oil shaft assembly in your Audi A4. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

    I understand from our conversation that you felt concerned with the modification released by Audi UK with regards to this component.

    I would again like to take this opportunity to confirm that Audi has no manufacturing issue with the design of the older range of chain driven oil shafts. The modification on this vehicle range was the result of incorporating newer technology within the vehicle and not as the result of any technical issue.

    As with all manufacturers Audi UK monitor all repairs carried out by the Audi Authorised Network. This information is recorded and sent to our factory to enable them to monitor repairs carried out to prevent part failures by issuing product recalls.

    We are always interested in people's comments and feedback about Audi. We therefore read the comments on the Audi forums online. Although this is a very useful source of information, it does not tell us everything, so we also check the failure rates of all our vehicles.

    Audi UK consider each case on an individual basis and may, under certain circumstances, offer customers a contribution towards a repair. Having fully reviewed the details of this case, I can only reiterate our previous decision that as the repairs undertaken to your vehicle were not as a result of any part failure, Audi UK would not offer any contribution towards these costs.

    Although this is not the response you were hoping for, I hope that I explained the reasons for my response clearly. We have given your case our fullest attention and tried to resolve this matter as fairly as possible.
  23. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    This was my letter which was sent 6 weeks after my letter was ignored, i then spoke to them and they refused to give me anything saying there was no know problem. ********!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Further to our telephone conversation regarding your request for a goodwill gesture towards a new balance shaft for your Audi A5 (they could not even get the car right!!!), please accept my apologies for the delay in responding.

    I was naturally concerned to learn of the issue as described and i appreciate that your expectations of reliability and build quality are high when you purchase and Audi, therefore any issue is disappointing.

    Although the quality of our cars is out highest priority, we hope we can understand that occasionally individual parts malfunction. We cannot guarantee every single component in our cars, but we provide a three year/60,000 mile warranty for every new Audi we sell. This provides a solution for the rate occasions when something goes wrong.

    Audi UK consider each case on an individual basis and may, under certain circumstances, offer customers a contribution towards a repair. When looking into such a gesture, a number of factors are taken into consideration. These can include the age the mileage of a vehicle and the loyalty of our customers, as evidenced by purchases and servicing within the Audi network. Taking this into account and together with the fact you purchased your Audi A5 !! from outside the network, I am unable to offer any contribution towards the cost on this occasion.

    Although this is not the response you were hoping for, i have given your case the fullest attention and tried to resolve this matter as fairly as possible.

    Thank you for taking the time to contact me and giving me the opportunity to reply.
  24. moorheadbrian
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    moorheadbrian moorheadbrian

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    This has happened to my mum's '05 A4 with 56k on the clock... not sure what to do with it
  25. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    Could you PM me your details and I will advise you what to do next
  26. Nogwuy
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    Nogwuy Member

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    Ok so I'm a good deal of the way through this job now but am stuck getting the sump off. Do you just have to keep prizing or is there a certain way to do it? Any advice much apreciated.
  27. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    We got stuck at that point, then after hammering for a while we realised there are two bolts at back of the sump were not un-done, i.e next to gearbox - not one, they need the 5 or 6mm hex/bolt, did you get these two off?

    i have just sent you the diagram, sorry, i never saw your email of end of march, i just searched after i saw this thread and found it!!!!!.

    Should drop off once the 18 bolts come off.

    All the best, and be patient!!!
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  28. huxley1
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    huxley1 New Member

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    OK so my car appears to have this exact fault. Rattling engine sound on cold start and a humming vibration in drive. Also the oil pressure light started intermittently coming on.

    Car is 2005 A4 2.0 TDi with 57,000 miles on the clock.

    I thankfully found this forum after Audi quoted me £5100 for a replacement engine!!

    But a bit lost on what to do now. Can I just get a garage to replace the balance shaft and fit the modification or do I need a new engine?

    Any help would be gratefully received.........
  29. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    Difficult to diagnose if you do need a new engine but 8/10 cases just require the modification. Did you carry on using it after the noise started? If you stopped immediately then I reckon you'll probably not have totalled the engine.

    Basically, most dealers say they can't tell what has been damaged without looking into it and then assessing it properly.

    I strongly advise you to contact Audi UK about this (via letter). Reason being is that they are not aware of many (they told me any) issues recently on this problem. Normally they rely on the figures coming from the dealership to look at trends on faults, they can then pass this to Audi Germany. However, faults are only put onto the system by the dealer *if* the dealer does the work. Most of the people with the fault have chosen to use independant garages and thus Audi do not have these logged.

    I am happy to advise you what to do next with letters etc but outside this forum. I'll drop you a PM.
  30. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    First thing first, don't drive, get it towed to Audi, other wise you are looking at 5K

    Letters to Audi UK are certainly a starting point, but first you need a diagnosis. Audi do this for a bout £70. they will then apply to Audi for goodwill. You are under 60 thousand miles so it is worth a try, check out letter audi sent to me on above post, you could quote this in second letter. to get any goodwill you will be in stronger position if all services are by audi and as said above, the car was bought from audi.

    However, be prepared for bad news, so once diagnosis is complete, go round the indis and get quotes for changing the gear, this will be approx 1500 to 2000. audi specialists are probably better bet as the top sprocket is hard to remove and needs some specialist heating and tools to remove.

    You will have read that i just replaced the chain at fraction of cost, chain is only £80, oil and other stuff say another £200, labour i guess will be about 400 to 800. I did the timming belt stuff too and this was say another 200. We did work ourselves, saving labour, but took 4 days or so. Nogwuy is currently doing same repair. My car now runs fine, although same thing could go again in 50 to 80 k miles. But by then, say 6- 8 years, i will be on new car.

    let us know what you do.
  31. Good 2 B A Gooner
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    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

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    B*llocks....

    I went to drive in Chi today and has the windows open and could hear a metalic noise... not sure if it anything to do with the woosh type noise i've been getting or the chain?!

    Anyone give me some info; if the chain noise/metalic sound was all the time - as my car only seems to do it when it's driving and not on idle?


    Cheers.
  32. andy16vturbo
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    andy16vturbo Member

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    can anyone describe the sound?? i mean, a rattly engine doesnt really narrow it down, these motors arent the quietest of things anyway.

    my car has a slight rattle which appears to be coming from the pas pump (ive had a screw driver to my ear) but never the less im still pretty concerned.

    inside the car whilst driving there are no abnormal sounds, in fact the car is pretty smooth and quite when driving at both low and high speeds.

    is the sound of a failing chain, disstinctive, ie would it be heard at volume inside the car?

    cheers
  33. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member

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    I would look at it like this, if you have a 05 TDi with a BLB engine that has not been converted, then it's just a failure waiting to happen. From what I have read you either sell the car or fix it, but I would not wait for the rattling to happen.
  34. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    The rattly sound is a chain that is loose and bashing around a speed. it is a slightly higher pitch sound that the normal diesel sound of the engine. The best example I could find on you tube is this one, it is form the passat and it has the same problem as Audi.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQx3sj6_Fk

    here is another one

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nXCjJ5hhOs&feature=channel

    This one is even worse, i would say mine sounded more like the former.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbjgvh_eTDE&feature=related


    This guys also replaced to the gear, this does have the advantage of less noise than a good working chain model.

    if you listen to this you will hear the difference.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMZFnuueSyc&feature=channel

    i also had a grinding vibration noise when driving the car, some others reported this.

    Hope these two videos help explain the difference.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  35. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    Those Video Clips are excellent and thanks very much for posting these links.

    Paul
  36. moorheadbrian
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    moorheadbrian moorheadbrian

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    update on my mum's '05 a4 2.0 TDI, 57K on the clock

    Car has been fixed using the gear conversion method through an independant mechanic to the tune of around £2k all in. There were about £800-1000 spent on the gear conversion and parts needed for that, £400 on a turbo, £4/500 on labour and the timing belt was done also.

    Mum rang audi and was basically told to get stuffed.

    Guy on phone says its not a design flaw, my mum asks why do you not sell the chain anymore and only a newer conversion kit, reply ''because there was a problem with that part''
    my mum replies 'so there was a design flaw with the chain', reply - ''eh...no there was no problem with that part'', my mum-'but you just said there was...', reply' no i didnt' etc etc etc

    A complete b*lls&&tter
  37. steslatt
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    steslatt Member

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    Is this just BLB thats effected? I have a BRE, will mine be ok?
  38. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    A word of advice to people with this problem, do not engage audi over the phone as you will not have a record of anything. Always write a letter and ask for a final response in writing, that was they will have to be careful what they write.
  39. Samtex9
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    Samtex9 New Member

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    Hi, this Balance shaft faliure thread has been a shock to me as i was about to purchase and A4 2.0TDI S-Line because of Audi's build quality.

    Can you tell me if this is just on the BLB engines or on both BLB or BNB engines? Also did you find out about the replacement part to fix the problem? If so how much did it cost?
  40. ostrom
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    ostrom New Member

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    Ok...
    I got same f**n problem....
    I need he cheapest resolution to sort out noise problem,
    my engine is still fine but i was in Audi asking what coz loud work and diagnose said it
    is very noisy oil pump........
    Can any one advice me where i can do I it the cheapest way....
    I don't want spend over 1K for parts and repair....
    Any ideas?

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