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2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. tomgreen78
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    tomgreen78 New Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    Hi i'm due to pick up my a4 sline 2.0tdi on a 55 plate (reg 2006) does anyone know if this car will be affected by the blb, brb engine. Really concerned at the moment about the engine if i should now buy the car any quick replies would be helpful
    #81
  2. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    P Crr - If you give me the VIN number I can check fairly quickly as I have access to a copy of ETKA and am happy to do so. Also, the V5 will tell you.
    BRgds
    Al
    #82
  3. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    WAUZZZ8E36A101***
    #83
  4. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    Sorry but I need the last 3 digits as well - if you can send me those to my e-mail - albarker01@aol.com - I can give you an answer straight away. Otherwise ask the seller to look at the V5C Registration document and give you the engine code & number - it is certainly listed on mine.
    #84
  5. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    WAUZZZ8E36A101308. Its not the person who is waiting to pick up car. I already own this car but would appeciate knowing whether my car has the potential of the chain problem.

    Thanks.
    #85
  6. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    P Crr - It is more than likely you have a BPW engine code and, therefore, the spur gear oil pump drive - so you should be OK!!
    #86
  7. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    On the sticker in the boot it says engine / trans code BLB
    #87
  8. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    P Crr - Disregard my last post. Having checked your VIN against ETKA, you have a BLB engine but it is fitted with the spur gear drive. It would appear that all BLB engines fitted to cars with a VIN after 8E*6*080172 were of the modified type. Hope that helps
    #88
  9. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    Thanks vey much. I have been really concerned with this ever since I seen concern on forum. Bought car wanting to keep for a while but had thought of selling. Looks like I can keep it know.
    #89
  10. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    I would, however, caveat my comment below by saying that it would appear that you have the spur gear type of oil pump drive. My comments are based on ETKA information from v7.0. To be doubly sure, I would ask the question of Audi, giving them your VIN number and Engine code and serial number and formally posing the question to them. Not trying to wriggle out but I don't want to say you have the modified drive mechanism and it fails and it is found to be the chain drive version because mine is a BLB (earlier 55 plate Sep 05) with the chain drive which has failed!!!
    #90
  11. Good 2 B A Gooner
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    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    My neighbour has taken my engine code into work(He works for Audi), and told me my car isn't affected (It's a 54 reg 2005) as it has a chain, but not a cog and chain. Apparently chains are ok, unless they have cogs also?!

    Not sure if he's got confused...!

    Thoughts guys?
    #91
  12. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Jan 29, 2010]
    How do you get the ETKA info?? I have heard elsewhere that only certain chassis numbers are affected.Albarker01 did your chassis number on ETKA say you had a chain or gears?
    #92
  13. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    [Jan 30, 2010]
    what is ETKA
    #93
  14. tomgreen78
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    tomgreen78 New Member

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    [Jan 30, 2010]
    wauzzz 8e16a180087 got bre also on the same page its written as so BRE --- HCF does this mean probably ok its not the BLB engine many thanks...
    #94
  15. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2010]
    Am answering a few posts in one here! I think your neighbour is confused! There appear to be 2 types of oil pump/balance shaft drive, namely: chain drive with sprockets (cogs?) and spur gear (like a gear box). Earlier BLB engines had the chain drive whilst older BLB models had the spur gear, according to ETKA, which is the VAG (Audi, Skoda, SEAT & VW) electronic illustrated parts catalogue and can run on Windows OS. If you search that popular on-line auction site you may find copies available! The good thing about ETKA is that there is an option to tailor the search according to your VIN; ETKA automatically comes up with all the relevant parts for your model. Very useful. When I plugged my VIN into it, it certainly identified my engine as being a BLB (the vehicle log book - V5 - also tells me it is a BLB) fitted with the chain drive, so ETKA was correct for me. Tom Green 78 your VIN seems to be missing a digit! Hope this helps guys.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
    #95
  16. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    [Jan 30, 2010]
    cheers albarker.

    I bought elsawin, is that more or less same thing.

    Incidentally I have now bought all bits and bobs incl the chain and tensioner, and also the timming belt and kit, water pump , also some tensioner tools. I thought i had ordered the locking tool kit but mix up in communications and somone sent the tools i thought I could do without. (will sell them on ebay once complete) This afternoon we start!!!! god help and bless us!!!

    I will take some pics and videos and add to facebook site if anyone want to see. will let you know how things go on monday.

    also hired an engine lift for £35.

    Anyone here got any tips before we start?
    #96
  17. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2010]
    Weggie - ELSAWIN is the Maintenance manual (which does have a link into ETKA), another very useful tool especially when you are embarking on something like your job. I secured access to both and found them very descriptive with good diagrams. A much better workshop manual than the old Ford Cortina one my dad had which went something like: 1. Remove propshaft, 2. Remove Gearbox, 3. Remove Engine!! Think you just need to support the engine whilst you work on the sump area. Good luck with the job and can't wait to hear about the successful first start post repair!!
    #97
  18. tomgreen78
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    tomgreen78 New Member

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    [Jan 30, 2010]
    all the numbers i can see in my servive book are as follows - VEH DATA wauzzz 8E 1 6A180087, MODEL DEES 8ED OJC 0237260 , A4 AVANT TDI2.0 R4 ETC ETC IF YOU COULD HAVE A LOOK IN YOUR ETKA BOOK MANY THANKS, BRILLIANT CAR BY THE WAY.........
    #98
  19. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Jan 30, 2010]
    tomgreen78 - According to ETKA that I have access to your VIN data says you have a BRE engine (which has the spur gear balance shaft drive) and HCF gearbox. Your V5 should also state your engine number. I would recommend you double check with Audi that the drive is that type.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
    #99
  20. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Jan 31, 2010]
    How do you use ETKA. When I look I find a chain on oil pump??
  21. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    P Crr - At the Audi option start screen in version 7.0 at the top of the screen in the middle there is a box that is entitled FI Search. Type your full VIN into that box and then hit return. A pop-up Car Identification screen will appear giving you all of the details of your car (including engine, transmission & final drive codes). Hit OK at the bottom of this pop-up and you will then have an EPC tailored to your car - you can seen the VIN muber etc at the bottom of the screen as a check. If you then go to the Main group selection and click on Box 1 - Engine - you will get your specific Engine part numbers etc. If you scroll down that first page to MG1 SG15 you will see your oil pump option (Illustration 115-51). Double click on that line and you will then be taken into the exploded view of your oil pump and associated components. It is on this screen that you see the spur drive balance shaft.
    Hope that helps
    Rgds
    Al
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
  22. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    I can see the spur drive balance shaft on 115-51 but my log book and sticker in boot says BLB. Why am I not supposed to select 115-35 as this states BLB. If I select this then my car has a chain.
  23. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    P Crr - Check your VIN with the data given in ETKA. For VIN to number 8E*6*080171 the BLB engine has a chain drive (diagram 115-35), for VIN 8E*6*080172 onwards the BLB has a spur gear drive (diagram 115-36). When I put your VIN into the ETKA I have access to, it comes up with the spur gear version.
  24. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    Just to let you now I have been working on the car on sun and today. My friend knows about cars so he lead the work and we decided to change the chain as well as the timing belt. Fairly big job, it took 4 to 6 hours to get the front end off, ( there lots of thiong in the way to even gert this off so you need to be patient and strip things one by one) I am glad my pal was this ggod!!!

    Then we had to take the sub frame off to get access to the sum, this meant an engine lift. Trouble was the one we hired was broken on Sun, it kept dropping, we had to give upon Sun. It took 2 hrs this morning to get the right one, we lifted engine and eventually exposed and striped timing belt and changed the water pump, this allowed us to get the sump of, Note there is 2 bolts at back of engine that took a long time to get off, you need special allen 5mm key with ball end to remove, but it has to be long,( we wanted an hour buying this). We got off exposing the chain. yes the tensioner was broken, just like previous pictures i have seen, plastic bit broken off and in the drained sump oil. The chain was slack and could be removed from the two cogs, but we could not get the new chain over these cogs, so this shows the stretch, hence the rattle. I guess this could break causing serious damage. The bottom cog was worn but we had a new one, the top cog ( the difficult one to remove was fine).

    I have photos, but not sure how to add on site.

    The problem we then had was that the 4 bolts holding the cog in place were utter rubbish, we split the head with wrench of each one, really soft metal. I called Audi and they had 2 bots in stock!!!. 35 p each!!, ordered 8 and will try to complete next week. We abandened the work, bolted up engine so i can de-hire the £38 engine lift per day.

    And will try to finish next week. Will have to grind off the 4 bolts, bugger, may have to tap them!. But this cog has to go , it's worn

    After that, sump back on, then complete timing belt, then put everything back together. lets hope we have not lost bits.

    Note you need new engine coolant &, engine oil say £65, also the air conditioning unit needs re-charged with gas, about £50. Also power steering fluid, this is about £18.

    You also need patience, and time.
  25. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Feb 1, 2010]
    Thanks Albarker01. I dont think i am using ETKA correctly. Is it supposed to work via internet?
  26. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    As far as I am aware, you can only get internet connection if you are a subscriber but that is about as far as my knowledge of the system goes.
  27. P Crr
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    P Crr Member

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    What verson off ETKA do you have. Mine does not show 115-36. I have version 7 update 597.
  28. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 2, 2010]
    Version 7.0 update 711
  29. Bing_IRL
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    Bing_IRL Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 3, 2010]
    Just geting back to the oil pump / balancer shaft issue. I was speaking with a local Audi service manager and asked if they've hade any failures. He said to me that they've had to replace a few, the last 2 at approx 70000miles. I'm very worried about mine now and asked if Audi were doing anything about it. He said that they won't touch it!

    I'm going calling Audi Ireland!
  30. Bing_IRL
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    Bing_IRL Member VCDS Map User

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    [Feb 4, 2010]
    The AUDI Ireland guy was absolutely no help whatsoever, "I'm the VAG customer service head and if I've not heard about a problem, it doesn't exist" blah blah blah. Called AUDI UK then and they at least logged my concern in case it happens to fail.
  31. Phil_S3
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    Phil_S3 Paid up member of Team Sepang

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    [Feb 5, 2010]
    Hi< I am about tp pick up my new A4 (2005 55-reg BLB engine code 2.0TDI SE) on Tuesday of next week, I have paid a deposit. Would you be able to check my VIN against the databse you have there? It would give me some ammo to go back and check with the dealer so I can highlight the issue and check the car before I pay what is a lot of money to me. I thought buying an Audi would give me piece of mind on the quality stakes, wish I had seen this thread before I paid a deposit.
  32. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    PhilA4 - I am more than happy to do so but I would caveat my response with please double-check with Audi as cars/engines may have been modified since initial build and ETKA will not show that. Will you get a full service history with the car? How many miles has it done? Would strongly suggest you get a warranty with the vehicle just in case and if they offer you one read the small print!! Let me know what the full VIN is and I will run a quick check.
    Rgds
    Al
  33. weggie
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    weggie Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    Just to let you know that having completed 50% or work last week, we finished the chain replacement this morning and all is well. Big job and took time, yesterday it was 10am am to 10 pm and most of that was re assembly of the car. We did timing belt as well, changed oil coolant This morning it was the under tray and the wheel arch liner and then all fluids added.

    I reckon I have saved a min £1500, and considering it would have been 400 to change water pump and timming belt, then it inly cost me £100 and 3-4 days work. The module replacement would have been same work plus the removal of top sprocket, and that would have been a bitch, and i suggest, only to be tackled by expert garages. I admit the module is more permanent, but the top sprocket was in good nick so a new chain, tensioner and bottom sprocket should let me keep the car for another 50-60 miles before chain has to be replaced again, hopefully, (however some of the Americans on the TDi site have frowned upon my choice!!!). I am low mileage so this is not a problem to me.

    I any one want's any advice then let me know.
  34. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    weggie - A man after my own heart. Great job as they say in the US. Hope you get many more miles out of the car now.
  35. sline29
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    sline29 New Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    hi albarker,could you also check for me aswell?
    8E 1 5A490707,8ED OQC,BLB,HCF DONE 63000MILES
    also who do you contact to see if it got modified?audi customer services?
    many thanks
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
  36. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    OK Guys according to ETKA, the original configuration for the BLB engine oil pump balance shaft is as follows:

    For VINs to number 8E*6*080171 the chain drive is original fit

    For VINs from number 8E*6*080172 upwards the spur gear drive is original fit

    sline29 looks like you may have the chain drive version still fitted. Suggest you check your service & repair history. If you bought the car through Audi and it has been dealer serviced since new, Audi should be able to tell you.

    Please note that the Audi recommended repair (not too sure from since what date) to a chain drive failure is to modify to the spur gear version - ££££££. Though, as weggie has done, you can do a repair by replacement of the old chain drive parts as long as the crankshaft sprocket is not damaged as you cannot get that part any more. So that is why the are many variables to consider rather than taking basic data at face value!

    Hope this helps. However, I would just say that you should always check with Audi.
  37. Phil_S3
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    Phil_S3 Paid up member of Team Sepang

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    I am going to do the checks on Monday with Audi - any suggestions which is the best contact?
    I will also go back and look at the service history that is fully stamped up with the car. It was registered in October 2005 and has done what appears to be genuine 40k miles with just one owner. I have been offered a 12 month warranty but will double check the details.
    The Vin number is [removed as check now done]
    Thanks in advance for the help.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2010
  38. albarker01
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    albarker01 Member

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    [Feb 6, 2010]
    PhilA4 - According to your VIN, looks like you have the later BLB with the spur gear. Suggest you double check with your local Audi dealer to make sure. Unlikely that the service history book will show any repair work. Warranty is worth considering depending on the small print.
  39. Phil_S3
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    Phil_S3 Paid up member of Team Sepang

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    [Feb 7, 2010]
    Many thanks I will double check as suggested.
  40. sline29
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    sline29 New Member

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    [Feb 7, 2010]
    cheers for the reply mate,not the news i wanted to hear though
    so should i phone audi uk?or local dealer to ask if its had repair?
    so i ask if its got chain drive or spur gear drive?is that balance shaft or the oil pump?very confusing

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