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2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. stevegrass777
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    stevegrass777 Member

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    [Jun 15, 2014]
    Looks to me like they have turned the hex shaft around when replacing the oil pump,the worn shaft has gone past the circlip because it is worn.I suggest you take your oily parts down to the main dealer and tell every customer in the place how shoddy the work was by that garage and how the don't honour there warranty no matter how much over the odds you pay for the work.
    And tell the ,manager when he comes out you have plenty of time on your hands and will be down regularly until there shoddy workmanship and understanding of mechanical failure is put right.
    It has fail because they turned the old shaft around instead of replacing it. How bad is that!
    They probably didn't have one in stock so bodged it.
  2. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2014]
    I was thinking along them lines, they have replaced the pump and either bodged the shaft or due to incompetence not even realised the shaft needed replacing. VW garage! Thing is even when i get the car back i am gonna have to pay to get the balancer shaft modified. Do you think its worth keeping the car if i get this modified or is there more trouble on the horison. Injectors have been replaced recently. Cars mint really, a4 avant s line quattro, 94k. Full main dealer history ( for what its worth )
  3. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2014]
    Do you think my warranty claim would be valid if they changed the pump but not the hex shaft as it has failed again due to the worn shaft
  4. stevegrass777
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    stevegrass777 Member

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    [Jun 15, 2014]
    What you need to do is get your hands on the parts and measure how far the wear goes on the shaft and how deep the oil pump is and how deep the shaft goes into the balencer shaft.It looks to me like the wear was caused by the balencer shaft originally as I am sure the oil pump side is deeper than that wear mark,but that shaft only goes in the balencer shaft by that amount.
    Where is the circlip is the next question.
    Does using etka (the computer program) mean the mechanics don't have any skill or judgment.
    The depth of that wear looks like it has come from the balencer shaft side.
    That £12 shaft has been worn and re used and turned around at a guess.If you came prove they reused a worn shaft again then this is negligence and poor workmanship.I personally wouldn't let them do the work anyway,find someone else.
  5. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2014]
    You are correct ive just searched worn shaft images and you can see on the shafts which is the oil pump wear and which is the balancer wear, someone please post a photograph on here and make sure this is 100% correct before I lose my cool tomorrow, I knew there was far more to this than they are letting on.
  6. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 15, 2014]

    For the sum you have paid they should have replaced the complete oil pump/balance shaft assembly (this includes the hex shaft)and turbo.
    On learning they haven't replaced the part which causes all this trouble ( the hex shaft ) I am with Steve and believe the job has been bodged by someone who didn't know what they were doing.
    Good luck and I wish you a successful outcome.

    Paul B7
  7. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2014]
    Thanks for all the help guys they have definitely turned the shaft, im am going to fight this, if i lose i can get it repaired anyway ( properly ) for not much more money just a recon turbo though. Thanks again.
  8. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Jun 17, 2014]
    Can anyone tell me if replacing an oil pump to elsawin instruction, july 2013 repair was carried out. Would elsawin mention hex shaft to replace or inspect for wear?
  9. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2014]

    Audi work to Audi approved Technical Notes/Bulletins and not Elsawin parts lists.
    I am now suspecting the work was not done by a main dealer ?
  10. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Jun 17, 2014]
    Work was carried out by a vw main dealer but he said they carried out the work according to elsa, this is when he was on about not replacing the circlip which failed.
  11. boldtern
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    boldtern New Member

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    [Jun 25, 2014]
    I just registered, but was reading a lot in various forums regarding the oil pump issues with Audi.

    last 2 months i was seriously considering to by new car from audi, instead i bought 2006 audi a4 with bwp 2.0tdi q. 150k. I run around 2000km on it, and here we go, car is now 2 weeks off, waiting for me to go home from abroad and check what went wrong. My wife is now 2 weeks sitting at home during summer and friends help her to bring products from city. My beautifull audi is at anchorage in my garden. During 2 weeks i red lots of posts around pump failures, mods etc., and i came to conclusion that audi is slowly passing away, otherwise they never would let the fans to come down to this point, to this disapointment. I want to drive car and feel safe, rather than sitting on a designed to fail car, undersigned by a famous brand. If i drive audi and my wife drives it, i want to know i am driving safe, so i want a support from dealer, fair one, if not, i can drive any car, but for my next choise i will not include audi, just because i am sorry for my wife crying when look at car for last 2 weeks. Recall your poor pmp drives.
  12. Raymond999
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    Raymond999 Member

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  13. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Jun 30, 2014]
    Still fighting this warranty claim. Audi uk have confirmed that the hex was not replaced initially so this shoul be enough to win my case, cant really prove that they have turned the shaft without seeing it but thats not possible as the car is still at vw garage. Trying to find out what failed in the first place, as far as i can gather the pumps do not fail only the hex/balancer, they have replaced the oil pump only wtf. Looks to me like they havnt got a clue what they are doing and god knows what they charge for labour.
  14. trumpton
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    trumpton New Member

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    [Jul 8, 2014]

    Hi,

    No idea if this is of any use to anyone. But after a prolonged dialogue with Audi UK, which ended up at a very senior level, I didn't get anywhere. We exchanged about six letters and emails, and ended up ignoring my last communication. In short, Audi simply hid behind the fact that my car was 8 years old, and hadn't been recently serviced or examined at a dealership when this fault occured. They denied any liability at all.

    I pointed out that I'd recently replaced the clutch, DMF and bearing system at my own cost at the same time (to prove that I wasn't just trying it on). I completely accept that the cost of repairs to my car largely sit with me, but that with the oil pump drive mechanism, they left me with no choice in the matter - the official line is you buy the conversion kit, and at your cost.

    They refused to answer the blunt point of "you've made the repair more expensive than it should have been because you redesigned that part of the engine". I asked them to address that point several times, and every time they hid behind "you didn't get it looked at at a dealership, and your car is old and out of warranty".

    I suppose with hindsight, I would go for one of the aftermarket repair kits, get the car fixed and sell. In my case, I needed to get the car back on the road as soon as possible, and my specialist just gave me the option of the conversion kit. if I had more time to research, I would go with the aftermarket kits.

    For what it's worth, the footnote to my story is I got the conversion done, sold the car immediately (at a loss compared to what it cost me in repairs during the last 12 months of it's life) and have just purchased a brand new car.

    I spent £35k and it wasn't with Audi. (When you consider that my last five cars have been Audi models from new, that should tell you what I think of this whole debacle).

    In any event, I've decided to vote with my wallet and I will never go near an Audi or VAG again. They've lost a customer.

    Good luck guys.
    stevegrass777 likes this.
  15. dentsy
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    dentsy I HAVE THE OPTION CODES

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    [Jul 9, 2014]
    Hi, has anyone had any success in getting Audi to honour this repair or under a extended warranty ?

    Si
  16. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jul 10, 2014]

    In my experience of this issue and I have been on the case for the last three/four years the Audi stance has always been the warranty is 60,000 miles or three years period !. Any failures outside this window have been partly compensated for under the Main dealers "good will " gesture and subject to the car having a FULL Audi main dealer service history.
    Those with the Audi extended warranty have always been fully covered but then again to maintain the warranty one needs to have a full service history and the Audi extended warranty is in the region of £800 per year.
    Audi have ignored this issue totally and we the used car buying public have had and are paying for Audi known design faults and latent defects.
    I have driven Audi for nearly thirty years and this will be my last model from the VAG group, THE TWATS !
  17. Andy021
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    Andy021 New Member

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    [Jul 11, 2014]
    I have a 170bhp A4 2006 2.0tdi, not sure what to say really, I hoped the usual oil pressure related symptoms was the hex drive but it hadn't failed just rounded instead the idler gear blew up and took out the crank gear.
    the turbo has no play and is as good as it was, the cylinders look a mirror finish and the oil pump and filter stopped the metal getting in the engine......anything else I can do to ensure the engine doesn't suffer when rebuilt, I might just flush the first oil change through and put a strainer through every so often to make sure no metal parts there.....I haven't had the car long!! thanks, ps I did upgrade the balancer and hex to the 100mm version, maybe all I have now is the suck it and see approach!

    DSC00007.jpg

    DSC00016.jpg

    DSC00012.jpg
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  18. Gazwould
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    Gazwould Active Member

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    [Jul 11, 2014]
    Where did you get your new balancer shaft from, new oem or remanufactured ?
  19. Andy021
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    Andy021 New Member

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    [Jul 11, 2014]
    KMBHome - KMB Parts Direct got it the very next day remanufactured. Audi wont tell me what pump is fitted to my car on the other hand KMD were great (Graham)

    the job wouldn't have been too bad but there is NO way of getting the two sump bolts out behind the flywheel as they are not fitted in line with the viewing slots in the housing. Gearbox and flywheel had to come off!
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  20. Andy021
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    Andy021 New Member

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    [Jul 17, 2014]
    new gears fitted and so far so good.
    good luck to everyone who owns a 2.0 tdi

    20140711_192409.jpg
    old idler gear wore loose on the hub!!

    20140713_164706.jpg
    £120 of new gears, £255 of uprated balancer shaft

    lots of hard work and nervous disposition, fitting a magnet to the sump!

    owning an audi a4.....priceless
  21. Darren198712
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    Darren198712 Member

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    [Jul 28, 2014]
    Your brave doing something like that on the floor
  22. CHEZ
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    CHEZ moderately amusing

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    [Jul 28, 2014]
    this thread will just snowball and snowball as cars get older and cars get cheaper! with this black cloud above them!

    DO NOT BUY A 2.0TDI A4/A5/A6 no matter what year!

    there said it!
  23. Darren198712
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    Darren198712 Member

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    [Jul 28, 2014]
    I always recommend the 1.9 and 3.0. I don't recommend the 2.0 what so ever. Just ashamed that Audi cocked up. I was reading the forum the petrolatum are not much better
  24. dentsy
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    dentsy I HAVE THE OPTION CODES

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    [Jul 28, 2014]
    Fancy doing mine mate ?
  25. Andy021
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    Andy021 New Member

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    [Jul 29, 2014]
    cheers Darren

    I had the car for 3 weeks and it was either do it on a budget with the chance terminal damage was done and it was wasted money or have open wallet surgery from a garage with the chance the engine was 'compromised' I have read some terrible stories, still gutted I had to take the front of the car off too but at least it meant no oil starvation as it tried to pump with the broken gears.

    its kind of suicide to put a warning out on you tube if I want to sell but it was an episode in my life, maybe this can help others

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tideo4TmGM

    I know the BRD engine very well now, every car should have an accessible sump that's easy to remove not the work up that Audi have made it!!!!! I would have paid a grand maximum for the car if I had known this was going to happen. at least the pump is done...would I do another...No! I only just managed to do mine because I loved the car ;-)

    in 2 months its had.....new front brakes, tints, tandem pump, filters, oil change(s), flywheel, clutch, oil pump upgrade, oil pump gears. I cleaned the turbo out last weekend, its pretty good condition, now clean and no soot!.
    20140726_141916.jpg 20140726_141947.jpg



    Im leaving the car alone now its got to pay me back, will lower it even more next year if it behaves.....
  26. Darren198712
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    Darren198712 Member

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    [Jul 29, 2014]
    I just finished a a6 oil pump conversion at work today. I done mine it was a mission even on a ramp took me about 7-8 hours. One of the worse jobs I done in a long time. It was a quattro so slightly harder in some ways. Once you do it the next one is easy (on a ramp anyway) my engine code was BRD as well
  27. Andy021
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    Andy021 New Member

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    [Jul 29, 2014]
    so quick question then....what the hell are the viewing slots for on the gearbox!!!! there is a metal gasket between each face half way through the slot so its a case of look at the 2 sump bolts but you have no chance of getting them out!!!!!!! arrrrggggg gearbox off!!!
  28. Bird an
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    Bird an New Member

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    [Aug 5, 2014]
    Cheers for all the help guys, stood my ground, threatened to get a solicitor involved and I managed to get my turbo replaced for free, just need a pump mod now for peace of mind. Took 6 weeks though😩
    stevegrass777 likes this.
  29. markspark
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    markspark New Member

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    [Aug 10, 2014]
    @Andy021 the viewing slots in the gearbox are there to access the 2 hex bolts that hold the sump in place you need a 5mm ball end allen key to get them out as they are on an angle, if you cant get to then turn the crank which in turn spins the flywheel there is a cut out in the flywheel to aid access to these 2 bolts, undo one the move crank again to get to the next one hth
    weggie likes this.
  30. silennox101
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    silennox101 New Member

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    areet lads wondering if yous can help ive just bought an audi a4 55 plate with 133,000 on clock unfortunately ive just found out about the blb engine faults ive checked and it does have the dreaded engine. The car drives fine and ive done over 4000 while ive had it with no problems was just wondering what you would reccommend is there any upgrades that can be done ect to stop this from happening and is it certain that it will happen ??
  31. zeebraa
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    zeebraa New Member

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    Looking at getting a 2.0tdi A4. Is it only certain engine codes that have this issue? Or should i avoid the car completely?
  32. alex350r
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    alex350r Member

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    Update on mine - pleased to announce that I've managed to get mine fixed under warranty - a Warranty Direct one that is. So just to confirm they do indeed cover the fault - the only thing they wouldn't pay for was the modified sump.

    If you own a B7 BLB and are set on keeping it then you might want to consider purchasing a warranty from Warranty Direct. Personally i'll be hanging onto the car now for some time now that the oil pump drive and balance shaft have been replaced.

    It's mainly the BLB engine code from around 2005/2006 but personally I would avoid like the plague and go for the 3.0 or 1.9. I love mine but now that's it been repaired but I didn't enjoy waiting for it to fail!
  33. zeebraa
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    zeebraa New Member

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    Thats a shame. 1.9 is hard to come by and 3.0 may be too much to run for what i want. Will look in to it. Cheers.
  34. gash
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    gash Member

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    [Aug 19, 2014]
    Guys

    Just came across this thread, it's making me really worried.

    Just bought an A4 avant this week, it's covered 120000 miles and no record of any of the mentioned parts changed in the service history.

    I have a slight rumble when the car is ticking over, no funny noises or grinding from the engine, just the typically noisy TDI we are used too.

    Heads all over the place with this and not sure where to start, can any one offer advice?

    From what I have read, the problem tends to flare up between 70k and 120k. Does this mean I may be one of the lucky ones and may have missed it?

    I plan to phone Audi CS tomorrow to see if the can help.

    First registered in jan 2006

    Engine code from the service book - BLB.

    Gary
  35. alex350r
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    alex350r Member

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    Hi Gary,

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Audi CS won't help you - at least not until the fault occurs. Has your A4 got FASH? If so and it fails the best they will do is a goodwill gesture of 70/30.

    If there is no record of it being done then it's going to happen at some point - it's just when. I've heard of some going at around the 70K mark and others that have gone on to do 200K with no problem. The thing is when you examine the tensioner it strikes you just how **** the design is - it's just a piece of plastic so it could fail at literally any point - all depends how the car has been treated and how regularly the oil has been checked/filled up.

    If you like the car and don't want to sell then do what I did and purchase a Warranty Direct warranty - the first 90 days of the policy won't cover you though for wear & tear but after that you are fine. At least that way you will have piece of mind.

    You can get it checked to see if it has been changed but this involves dropping the sump - so unless you can do this yourself you'd have to pay someone to do it.

    I fought this with Audi for quite some time until I was forced to give in despite the fact the fault has been covered in numerous magazines - Audi driver and another car mechanics one which I have at home.

    I remember someone mentioning on here about reporting this to watchdog - if we all agreed to do it then it would probably gain some traction. Quite simply Audi will not admit to their being a critical manufacturing flaw because to repair all the faulty cars out there would cost them a ton of money and ruin their reputation.

    Cheers

    Alex
  36. oopee
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    oopee New Member

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    Hello!
    I have A4 B7 BPW 04/2006, now 210 000km/130 000mile on clock. No noises, runs well. Chain driven oil pump. I plan to do some preventive maintenance and i'll change new parts in:
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Audi-a4-a6...item19f188a207
    http://www.kmbpartsdirect.co.uk/products.html#kit8
    These are aftermarket parts, how about quality, any experiences? It's lot cheaper way to give car more kilometers, but is that way any sense? Have anybody done chain oil pump repair like this here? I asked local Audi service about replacing chain drive to gear drive system, price is €3500/ £2800, not interested. :/

    - Olli
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
  37. gash
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    gash Member

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    [Aug 20, 2014]
    Hi Alex,

    Thanks for taking your time to reply.

    Unfortunately it ain't got FASH, 6 stamps from the main dealer then 2 at local garages. As u said, really unhelpful bunch, they would not even help with previous work done to the car. Stated its a personal issue between Audi and the previous owner, not between Audi and the car. Shocking.

    Warranty may be an option, the only thing is they will only cover for a year as they don't cover if ur car has done over 120K. I may be wrong on that as I only had a quick look.

    Now moving forward - I could go down the warranty route as you did.

    Get replacement parts and change over, no need to convert to gears as I will likely do less than 25k in 4 years. What's troubling me about this option is that I spoke to KMB today. The guy a Graham was very helpful but reckoned I would be £504 + vat to buy the parts. I am not entirely sure what parts this includes or what parts I need, I have read posts saying replacement parts are in region of £280. Can someone help me with this please? I have no clue what parts I need to get say another 30K out the car without the shaft failing.

    I also have my trusty mechanic looking into it, believe it or not he doesn't get many failures of these shafts, wasn't too clued up about the poor design but says he can certainly quote for a replacement.

    Last option is to leave as is and hope I am one of the lucky ones. Maybe it will last another 20k and that will be that.

    I guess some preventative work is prob the best route, that or warranty. The only think I need to know is what do I actually need to replace and the costs associated. This is really what I need help with.

    The watch dog thing is a good idea, would need huge numbers to complain. I think that would take someone to write a letter, obv need to have v good writing skills and be able to deliver the facts correctly. This letter could then be posted on here for each owner to copy, change names, dates, and car regs then sign and send in. I think most who have suffered from this would be willing to do that?

    Regards

    Gary
  38. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Aug 24, 2014]
    The Watchdog thing has all been tried before , all to no avail, read this 29 page thread from the beginning and all will be revealed.
    Don't forget a lot of these cars are now getting old and moving into the "banger" class by the standards of most modern motorists and as such the media is also less likely to have any interest in this long standing Audi design fault.
    In summary Audi have got away with it and even if all the suffererers of this problem never bought another Audi I suspect it wouldn't even show on their bottom line figures,
    As for for me, I am buying Japanese next time!
  39. davidmbell
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    davidmbell Member

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    [Aug 27, 2014]
    Sorry to just dive in with this, but anyone know if a June 2007 Audi A4 2.0tdi Cabriolet with the 140bhp engine could suffer with this issue? I can't seem to find a definitive list of engines/years that might suffer.

    I suffer bad luck with cars and have just sold a 2.0Tdi A3 with BKD engine that I spent a fair bit on flywheel/turbo recon, I don't want the new A4 Cab to suffer too.

    thanks,

    David
  40. Gazwould
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    Gazwould Active Member

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    [Aug 27, 2014]
    It's very much all Audi and VW 2.0 tdi's from 2004-2010.

    Your not unlucky, it's just the modern way of things to spend thousands fixing manufacturers under engineering faults.

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