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2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. sidsat
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    sidsat New Member

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    [May 15, 2013]
    Hi HARMEETSAGGU,

    Can you send me your contact details please.

    Thanks
    Sid

    Hi Guys

    My Car was in for an MOT ( 2.0 TDI Sline Avant on a 55 Plate) at Audi Glasgow, the Dealer. I was told that my balance shaft/ oil pump was on its way out and would cost £2600 car is worth £6000 MAX.
    Was not happy as i only has this car for less then 2 years and was bought Approved. with a FSH.

    Any way called Audi UK andasked if they could help.
    Long story Short... 100% of the cost will be paid for by Audi UK

    So its not a complete loss. I would recommend that if you can keep the dealership service. Thats the only reason i got mine paid for.

    The guy told me that this was a result of my loyalty to the group. I have had all service/ repairs MOT with them.

    So Guy if you can buy approved and keep the FSH.it may cost a bit more just now but when/ if you have a major problem. Audi are willing to help.

    Thanks

    The happiest audi Owner[/QUOTE]
  2. harmeetsaggu
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    harmeetsaggu New Member

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    [May 15, 2013]
    Hi Sidsat
    Just emailed you
  3. harmeetsaggu
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    harmeetsaggu New Member

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    [May 15, 2013]
    Hi Guys

    So got my Audi back from the dealer... Rus like a dream... till this TOOL with a van and toe bar revered in to me... Well annoyed
    onlyt had the car back 12 hrs ... anyway the insurance is taking care of it, but it suckes big time.
    total damage was about £3500 .. so bacicly i have had about £5,500 spent on my car in the last month... lucky i have not had to pay a peeny of it.
  4. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [May 16, 2013]
    Weird that. When I got my car back from the dealer, the next day I hoofed it into the back of a Prius.
  5. sidsat
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    sidsat New Member

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    [May 16, 2013]
    Hi,

    My A6 2006 2.0 TDi is at Audi, Slough. I reported loss of engine power and brake failure along with oil indicator lights that have come on.

    And they have just called saying the oil pump is gone. The turbos and engine need replacement. The brakes have failed as the oil pump wasn't able to supply oil. (And this happened on the motorway at 70 mph) They have mentioned a figure in the range of £8000

    Can I get some contact numbers so I can talk to you guys.

    Thanks.
    Sid: 07825368674
  6. ctd
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    ctd Member

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    [May 16, 2013]
    you have a text message from me
  7. RosieK
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    RosieK New Member

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    [May 20, 2013]
    I am hoping that some of you can give me some advice, I have read all 25 pages of messages/threads and I am still confused as to what I should do with my Audi A4 tdi Avant.

    I have the BLB engine and for the past two months or more there has been a ticking noise from the engine, I have not lost power or oil pressure (or the light never came on if I did). I took it to my local Audi/Volks specialist garage (not a main dealer) and asked if they could check it out as it didn't feel quite right and the noise was getting more obvious.
    He investigated and said that my oil pump/balance shaft is failing and will at some point go. I have not driven it and haven't yet decided what to do with it.

    It has done 91k and still drives like a dream (apart from the last two months) it has been regularly serviced and had all belts replaced when due and a new fly-wheel and clutch at 75k. What are your opinions about repairing this car? Is it going to be worth me spending the money replacing the oil pump/balancer with the newer style or just the parts as some of you have done? How are your cars running now? Any advice would be great as this is so confusing.

    Thanks :)
  8. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [May 20, 2013]
    The 2.0tdi engines in the B7 are a dog and the BLB engine is the biggest dog of them all. This car WILL cost you money and my recommendation is get shut ! I have had my car four years and todate have spent £2000 on the oil pump/balance shaft conversion,£250 on the ERG, £60 on a MAF and NOW the turbo has gone.............................................If all this does not put you off investigate a "cheap" repair and check out the conversions offered by Powermax etc. All the contact details are in this very long thread somewhere.......................GOOD LUCK.
  9. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    Put a big tent around it, give it some oats and then shoot it. Seriously, first thing is to get it checked out! Let's just say you have a gear driven unit and it's jus the hex shaft rounding down then that's a cheaper repair than if the whole lot is jiggered.
  10. sku
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    sku New Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    Hi guys, can anyone tell me if this Audi A4 2005, 2.0 TDI, 140HP, BLB engine has chain drive or spur gear drive?
    VIN : wauzzz8e55a425438
  11. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    I'm sure someone will tell yer but that sounds almost certainly to be chain driven.
  12. sku
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    sku New Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    I found a different thread saying this:

    For VINs to number 8E*6*080171 the chain drive is original fit
    For VINs from number 8E*6*080172 upwards the spur gear drive is original fit

    Considering that Audi is wauzzz8e55a425438 , and that number is upwards, shouldn't it be spur gear drive?
  13. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    Audi will advise you this information is incorrect and you will need to drop the sump to be sure what you have. Generally my research on this matter has concluded that BLB original units have chain driven oil pump/balance shaft assemblies.
  14. sku
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    sku New Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    Thank you for your time, thing is, I didn't buy that car yet, it has 150.000 miles on clock and it sells for 3500 pounds, which is a fair enough price for a 2005 Audi. But doing some research online before buying it, it kind of let me with a sour taste in my mouth. So, best advise would be to avoid buying it?
  15. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    MY ADVICE ( but I am sore about the whole 2.0 tdi B7 car thing ) would be to not walk away but to RUN! This is my advice only and at the end of the day its up to you. The best car for your money if you must have a diesel Audi and if you can find one will be the 1.9tdi, good solid reliable engines with an almost assured longevity if they have been carefully looked after.
  16. sku
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    sku New Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    What if I go for a non BLB engine? e.g. look for a 2006 2.0 tdi?
  17. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    Hex shaft can round on these. Remember its up to you but modern 2.0 tdi Audi engines are not long life engines like say in the old Mercedes cars. I reckon if you are getting more then 150,000 miles out of an Audi 2.0 tdi without ANY additional costs you are doing well. I am sure others will jump in here and say I am talking rubbish but this is my experience.
  18. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [May 21, 2013]
    Paul offers sound advice. It was only a few hours ago I was chatting with my indie about these issues and they are getting an increase in balancer shaft issues coming in, they sort of expect it. He said it was still a bit too early to see if the later models have expensive issues like this but another year should see. The 2005 B7 was the first A4 model to have the 2.0TDI unit it that configuration (A3 is the other way on and does not have the issue), I expect Audi changed this for the B8 which is a different style engine. If you want a 2.0TDI B7 then get a non-2005 model and have £2k spare to then check the shaft arrangement as you could be looking at new gear drive, bearing shells and shaft.
  19. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [May 22, 2013]
    I have received my remanufactured balancer shaft (gear driven), will be fitted in a couple of weeks. My motor is a 57 plate BRD 170, so will be interested to see how worn the hex drive key is. (prevention/cure blah blah blah lol)

    There is an Indie near me who says he has not long since had an 08 plate A4 in with the issue, and has a 57 plate Passat on the ramp, not yet checked but had the dreaded RED oil light saga.
  20. nasop
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    nasop New Member

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    [May 30, 2013]
    Hey guys.. I was just enjoying reading a few threads when I saw this one! I have a 2005 BLB A4 with 162K miles which I recently purchased. It drives great and is in immaculate condition having one owner and a full Audi service history. However, I'm now concerned I have a chain driven pump and need to find out if I do!

    Do Audi keep a record of work they carry out and would they share it with me?

    I can't take the sump off to check so are there any other ways of telling? The engine sounds OK to me but I have nothing to compare it to!

    Help! I really love the car but don't want to drive it with a fear it's going to drop its guts! I have a 90 mile (round trip) commute every day!
  21. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [May 31, 2013]
    If it's been serviced by Audi then yes they will be able to give you a print out of the work they have carried out, some charge a fee for this. 162k you may have been lucky or luckier still if it has been converted to the remanufactured gear driven unit with longer hex drive key.
  22. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Jun 4, 2013]
    Update
    Had the remanufactured balancer shaft/hex drive key done today...... peace of mind. Hex key was worn
    Apologies for poor pics but mate took them while slept off night shift lol
    Top one is new one, middle is mine and bottom Hex key is from an 06 passat
    [​IMG]
    Mine
    [​IMG]
  23. andyarchery
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    andyarchery New Member

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    [Jun 11, 2013]
    Glad you got it fixed in time.

    I have MY08 B8 A4 2.0TDI which I guess is likely to have the same hex oil pump drive issue.

    As I'm due a cambelt change shortly (5 yrs old and 50k miles) I'd like to get the oil pump drive refurbished at the same time.

    Can you confirm that just a new balance shaft and hex drive shaft are all that's required (not the oil pump itself) to implement the longer hex drive system. I just want to make sure what I ask the stealers what to do.
  24. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 12, 2013]
    I think you will find the Main dealers will want to replace THE LOT and to get a budget cost repair you will need to contact the likes of Powermax or similar for the parts and then get an Indy or yourself to do the swap over.
  25. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 12, 2013]
    Ooooops just spotted you have a B8, this is the B7 forum!
    if you do your homework you will find the B8 models todate seem trouble free so stop worrying.
  26. NRC
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    NRC New Member

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    [Jun 13, 2013]
    A4 Avanat 2.0 TDI 56 Plate with 61K. Chain drive switched to Gear Drive and modified hex bar at 18,000 miles under recall 13D7

    I wished to let you all know about my recent experiences with Audi as I found this entire thread very useful when my attention was first drawn to the problem of the hex bar.

    I purchased the car from a main dealer in Surrey in May 2011. After 6 months the EGR Valve failed and was replaced under warranty. Since then I had not returned to the dealership but after reading this thread I approached them asking if they were aware of the oil pump/ hex bar problems.

    The initial response from the after sales manager was to dismiss my concerns and that these forums only serve to scaremonger. There are after all thousands of these cars on the road and how many do you ever see broken down was one of the responses. I then sent via email a copy of an article taken from Audi World Magazine that outlined the entire problem. In short I became a bit of a pain for the dealership as I constantly questioned what they were telling me. In the end they confirmed to me that yes they were aware of the issue affecting only very early models, and that in the past two years they had only repaired one vehicle for this problem at their dealership.

    If I wished as a precautionary measure to have the hex bar replaced, which I did, they would offer me a generous slug of goodwill and I could get the job done. It was also pointed out that they did not expect to find any problems.

    In addition to this I also asked for a full service to be carried out and the dealership agreed to waive all labour costs and charge only for parts.

    During the course of the work it was discovered that the oil pump was failing, hex bar very worn (and it was the new modified version with only 42,000 miles on it) and that the oil pump housing was also worn. The first and latter parts were replaced free of charge as a further gesture of goodwill.

    From reading other posts perhaps it would appear that I have been luckier than some in my dealings with Audi. To date they have been extremely helpful. The only thing that I found slightly irritating was their initial dismissive attitude as to the seriousness of the potential problem. The job proved them wrong.

    I hope this post is of further help to others.
  27. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 13, 2013]
    Mmmmmmmmmmm whats this about recall 13D7, as far as I am aware there has never been a recall for converting the Chain Driven oil pump/balance shaft assembly to a gear driven unit. What's your engine code ?
  28. NRC
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    NRC New Member

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    [Jun 13, 2013]
    Its a BRE engine. Audi actually use the term "workshop action" but to the lay person it's a recall. This was carried out on certain Audi's by way of written notification from Audi UK. As I have said this work was to convert the chain drive to gear drive and introduce the modified hex bar. Interestingly there was no associated paperwork with my vehicle or in the log book. I contacted the Audi dealership where the car was first registered and they provided the confirmation. If you look up 13D7 via google you can see with a bit of hunting, a copy of a letter that was sent out.

    My car was first registered in September 2006 and was recalled in March 2008. The after sales manager who I liaised with confirmed the works.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  29. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Unless someone can advise me otherwise all BRE engines had geared driven oil pump /balance shaft assemblies as fitted by Audi when they left the factory, this is getting more and more curious?
  30. crux
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    crux New Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Hi!

    I also have a 2005 BLB engine, 165.000km, I bought it 3 years ago, and I have had some trouble with the car. I just changed the EGR, key fobs not working, aircondition are on LO og HI sometimes, changed wheel bearing++..

    Some weeks ago I started to check why my engine make so much noise, other diesels are running more silent. I spoke to my Audi dealership, and they where in denial, and said "Why be conserned about it, we fix it if it break.."... So, they do not take me serious.

    I where in touch with Powermaxengineering, it cost about £800 to get it converted to gears. But, do anyone know if the engine is running more silent after the gear convention?
  31. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    If you run a gear driven unit ( e.g a Bre coded engine ) at the side of a chain driven unit (Blb coded engine) you will find the gear driven unit is quieter. I tried this by running my own blb at the side of a bre some years back. So to answer your question, yes a geared unit is quieter than the chain driven assembly.
  32. crux
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    crux New Member

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    [Jun 14, 2013]
    Great. First, powermaxengineering, then Audi for sale...
  33. NRC
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    NRC New Member

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    [Jun 15, 2013]
    From looking back through the posts, there was another BRE owner who was also told the same as me back in December. I think it is fair to say that there are many discrepancies from Audi. Regardless of chain/ gear drive, it is important to point out that the modified hex bar is by no means a permanent cure. The wear on mine after only 42,000 miles was excessive to say the least.
  34. andyarchery
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    andyarchery New Member

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    How I wish you were right. Check out this post on the B8 forum (http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b8-chassis/185774-only-went-oil-change.html)

    It seems that all 2.0TDi engines up to 09/2009 have the hex drive wear issue....so that's the early B8's as well. All is OK The "remanufactured" balance shaft/hex dricve came in after 09/9 so anyone getting a replacement part after then is OK.

    BTW my previous car was a B7 2.0TdDi with the BLB engine...guess what...it needed a oil pump drive replacement in 2011. Got that done with some goodwill from the dealers (cost approx £1900). Then changed the car later for the current B8 2.0TDi only to find it has the hex drive issue...I am not a happy bunny :-(

    I only came onto the B7 forum as this is where all the info is at the moment but sometime soon it will hit the early B8's as well.

    Seems that if you go to Audi to get it fixed they will replace the whole oil pump/balance shaft module. I was hoping to just get the balance shaft/hex drive replaced whilst having a cam balt replacement. Seems I will need to find an independant Audi specialist to do it.

    Anyone have any recommendations for an Audi indi in Suffolk ?
  35. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 16, 2013]
    Thanks for this information update Andy.
    Something to consider for those thinking about a B8.......................
  36. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    the replacement balance shaft is £225 exchange (£100 surcharge till you send in youre old balance shaft/hex drive) on top so £325

    trust me the balance shaft wears exactly the same as the b7 one does.

    just had to order one for my brothers garage today so that's 3 cars in the last few months that have needed this .

    repair bill is under £1000 to do this job with an indy .
  37. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]

    In your experience in this confined to the early 2008/9 B8 models ?
  38. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    [Jun 17, 2013]
    yes its only till midway 2009 I did put the exact date over in the b8 section . the only trouble ppl may find is its the date the car was manufactured not registered. so you may find a few slightly later ones surface as the mileage goes up on them .
  39. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Jun 22, 2013]
    I have just been reading the thread on the B8 forum titled" Only in for an Oil Change " and this is making some scary reading for the early 2.0 tdi B8 owners.
    Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee looks like one needs to think 2010 onwards to escape the dreaded oil pump/balance shaft issues?
  40. Terrier1964
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    Terrier1964 New Member

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    [Jul 5, 2013]
    A4 on a 55 plate - had a full indy service end of May before a holiday in France which added about 850 miles.
    Week last Friday on my way to work Low pressure light came on in the M62 roadworks - unable to stop - scary drive with HGVS right up my rear end !

    Carried on in "limp mode" to work - approx 5 miles and checked oil. Was okay on dipstick.

    Left all morning.....started okay in the afternoon but as soon as any revs applied red warning light came on - low oil pressure
    Car stopped and towed to my reliable indy garage.

    One week later (as per pics) - front end off and oil pump out.....seems as though I have the chain driven pump even though my Vin shows as a "later" wauzzz 8E96A model !!!!! (one to be aware of for those who think they might get away with it )....

    a4 pump.jpg

    and my poor car in bits !!


    IMG00007.jpg


    Upshot is the mechanic has contacted Audi WHO OPENLY ADMITTED THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH CHAIN DRIVEN PUMPS and replacement parts costing £136 are going to be here next Tues to convert it to a gear driven version (well thats what I understand anyway) - Mechanic says engine is spotless inside - he showed me the sump and he said there was no swarf and he was amazed at how clean the whole engine was !

    Just a couple of questions

    1) How likely is my engine to be knackered even after all this work (considering I ran it for about 5 miles in limp mode - my mechanic seems to think I might just have got away with it as my oil levels were good and I didnt thrape the internals off it when I limped to work - He cannot see any scoring on the pump and the temp never rose above normal

    2) This conversion on the oil pump.....seems very cheap considering the prices some unfortunates have had to shell out in this forum - and can some put it in simple terms how it can be converted at such a good price ?

    3) Car has done 67k - just how good a fix will this be - never had a moment bother with it at all - usual tyres and brakes - only thing to go before this was a rear indicator light in May this year - I have agreed to have timing belt done and a new water pump whilst it is in bits .......is there anything else he should change at this stage ?

    4) Honest opinion - keep or get shut ? - I did look at a new Mazda 6 today......beautiful car :)

    5) Last question - I also took a test drive in one of the 2013 face lifted Skoda Superbs - wonderful car as well.....BUT is the TDI engine in that likely to have oil pump problems as well ? - I understand its a VAG engine in that and I would like to know if the chain /balancer problems have been fixed ?

    Sorry for all the questions.....just a bit sickened over the "illness" to what has been a very good motor

    Thanks :)

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