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2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Steve220
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    Steve220 Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    From what I can find, they still run it like the B7 engines, I wonder how they've become more reliable?
  2. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    I thought the engines switched to Common Rail so presume they got rid of the hex shaft issue?
  3. Steve220
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    Steve220 Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    Not sure, i can't find any schematics or exploded diagrams anywhere
  4. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    No the hex shaft is still there but's beeen redesigned looking at elsawin.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  5. Steve220
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    Steve220 Member

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    So is the answer to fit the oil pump from a CAG engine?
  6. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 4, 2013]
    Just checked ETKA and common rail engines have different part numbers for both the shaft & oil pump would be surprised if they fitted.
  7. Steve220
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    Steve220 Member

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    Never assume. If anyone has access to parts and could verify, it could solve quite a large problem!
  8. B5NUT
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    B5NUT Well-Known Member VCDS Map User

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    No I would assume, unless you have large pockets to try this stuff out and if it don't work and the engine goes pop due to oil starvation as the wrong pump was fitted, and then have the money to drop in a new one. Even if the pump did line up with the mounting holes, the only way to tell if it's fully working is to fit the pump and put the engine back together and monitor the oil pressure, and then after a few K mile strip it down again and make sure all the gears are still in perfect condition.

    This could be a good idea if you are a company who is going to charge for this replacement service and make money off it then it may be worth it, if you just want your car put back together and working again with minimal cost it's not worth it.
  9. Steve220
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    Steve220 Member

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    [Mar 5, 2013]
    I'm going to investigate this one I think.
  10. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    [Mar 13, 2013]
    usually slight noise and if oil pressure warning light comes on turn engine off immediately , you may save the turbo and the engine if your quick . all for the sake of a hex key drive . audi probably got a good deal on allen keys .

    also brother has a cr engine in garage with oil pump failure , but guy has supplied a complete engine .

    once engine is out theyll strip it to find cause and solution
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2013
  11. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Mar 31, 2013]
    Has anyone heard anything from Bald Man about taking up the oil pump/balance shaft issues with Audi or has it all come to nothing ?
  12. Steve220
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    Steve220 Member

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    [Mar 31, 2013]
    He will be one of thousands that try and just get the usual response. I've decided to face facts with my car and future proof it this summer whilst the car is going under more work :)
  13. Bald man
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    Bald man Member

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    [Apr 1, 2013]
    I am happy to look at this, but I do not have a damaged car, you lot do, come to an agreement between you how you are going to prove an engine design fault and I will fight it, I am not preparing and fighting it pro bono
  14. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 1, 2013]
    There is the problem , how does one PROVE the engine design has a fault ?

    I myself have attempted this and have written seven letters to Audi on the matter and all have been met with a response along the lines of our warranty is 3 years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes the earliest. My car had 68,000 miles on the clock and was a little over 6 years old. Despite having a full service history and that I have owned Audis for circa 25 years (I gave Audi all the details) there was no goodwill from Audi other than expediting the backlog of parts so that I received them in six weeks where others had waited three months or more.
    That said the engine does have a latent design defect but now after all this time I for one have all but given up hope of seeing my £2000 repair costs reimbursed.
    Rant over, now how much is a Toyota Avensis ........................................
  15. leebob
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    leebob New Member

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    [Apr 3, 2013]
    Hi Folks, forgive me for my ignorance as I am new to all of this.

    My oil pressure light has come on and am assuming that it is the balance shaft problem you all speak of. My car is the Audi A4 2.0l TDI 170bhp B7 model. Engine is the BRD one.

    How easy is it to replace the oil pump on this model? is there a step by step guide anywhere?

    Also has anybody heard of KMB parts direct in Sheffield as I am told they specialise in fitting replacement (longer) hex drive shafts.

    Any advice on the above would be much appreciated.

    Regards

    Lee
  16. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 3, 2013]
    If the red light is on and you are still running the engine you have very likely passed its too late to do much about it and you will have very likely wrecked your engine and turbo!
    Read the following for some useful information https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63614250/2.0 TDI oil pumps.pdf
    GOOD LUCK
  17. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 3, 2013]
    Equally, my car never manifested the fault before I got it converted.
  18. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 7, 2013]
    Just wondering whether Murran can provide the technical knowledge that you can use to fight this?
  19. ctd
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    ctd Member

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    [Apr 7, 2013]
    the problem is , at least with mine, is there were no symptoms AT ALL, the engine just shat itself, cloud of smoke, loss of power, oil light came on , engine stopped, new engine and turbo required, all happened as quick as you can read this post, doing 30mph after going 1/4 of a mile after leaving a friends house
  20. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    As far as I understand what Baldy Man requires is someone with mechanical experience who can state the problems and has worked on cars with the issue.
  21. ctd
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    ctd Member

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    [Apr 8, 2013]
    he was talking to the guy who changed my engine, not sure how far he got with investigation
  22. davidparcher
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    davidparcher New Member

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    [Apr 15, 2013]
    Hi,


    First post here. Have recently bought a 2006 56 plate A4 Avant 2.0 TDI 170bhp quattro, engine number starts BRD, 68k miles.


    Sounds like it shouldn't have the chain, but likely to have the hex shaft. Anyone able to say...


    1. Does this car have the hex shaft at risk of the issue ?


    2. Are there any indications of how likely the hex shaft issue is to occur, assuming car is driven to 150k miles plus?


    3. If I wanted to spend to protect against this risk, rough idea of cost ?


    Discovering this risk has taken the shine off my new motor, which otherwise I love. Many thanks for any help and advice.


    Cheers,
    Dave.
  23. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 16, 2013]
    READ THIS https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63614250/2.0 TDI oil pumps.pdf
  24. davidparcher
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    davidparcher New Member

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    [Apr 16, 2013]
    Thanks Paul. If I read this thread correctly you've had the chain replaced with gear driven, have you done anything to protect against the risk of hex balancer shaft wearing round?.

    I'm trying to decide whether I should do something, and if so which of the options, or live with the risk of the hex shaft rounding. Difficult to decide as no idea what % of shafts will eventually give an issue.

    Cheers,
    Dave
  25. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 16, 2013]
    "You pays your money and you takes your pick" , there are lots of gear driven engines out there that have not experienced the problems even at high mileages. That said there are a lot of us who HAVE experienced problems.
    i would suggest you set aside two hours and read this thread in its entirety and then make up your own mind as to what's best for you and your budget............good luck and remember at the end of the day the choice is down to you.
  26. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2013]
    The gear driven oil pump which has the hex key to drive the oil pump still has this problem upto sept 2009. I have just had to change the balancer shaft as mine was badly worn on the 2.0 170 cr engine code cah . Car my sept 2008 b8. Purchased the shaft from klm in Sheffield noticed that theyalso do chain driven kits and conversion kits for all effected engine codes. Do a google and phone the guy very knowledgeable and can tell you straight away if your engine is affected by this bad design.
  27. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 25, 2013]
    Have you got a link mate, I've trawled google and can't find klm in Sheffield

    Mac
  28. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2013]
    The company is called KMB not KLM, try www.kmbpartsdirect.co.uk
  29. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 25, 2013]
  30. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 25, 2013]
    When my BLB started rattling these kits were just starting to appear on the market ( by Powermax in ireland) and I opted to have Audi do a geared conversion at just over £2000. If I was in the same position today ( and because my car would be another 2 years older and worth less than when i had the work done) I would try one of these kits.
    Good luck.
  31. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 25, 2013]
    Just sent KMB an email, looking forward to what they have to say
  32. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 26, 2013]
    Ok so had a few back and forth emails from Graham at KMB, so here's my options, they supply a remanufactured balance shaft using the newer 100mm drive key which Audi altered to after Oct 2009. The cheapest way for me would be to buy the part from them at £225 and have my mate fit it, but there is also the option of going to them having them do the work all inclusive £650.
  33. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 26, 2013]
    Mmmmmmmmmmmm good prices and a lot less than having the Audi OEM conversion done. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
  34. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 26, 2013]
    I'm gonna order the parts, good price for peace of mind
    Paul B7 likes this.
  35. harmeetsaggu
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    harmeetsaggu New Member

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    [Apr 29, 2013]
    Hi Guys

    My Car was in for an MOT ( 2.0 TDI Sline Avant on a 55 Plate) at Audi Glasgow, the Dealer. I was told that my balance shaft/ oil pump was on its way out and would cost £2600 car is worth £6000 MAX.
    Was not happy as i only has this car for less then 2 years and was bought Approved. with a FSH.

    Any way called Audi UK andasked if they could help.
    Long story Short... 100% of the cost will be paid for by Audi UK

    So its not a complete loss. I would recommend that if you can keep the dealership service. Thats the only reason i got mine paid for.

    The guy told me that this was a result of my loyalty to the group. I have had all service/ repairs MOT with them.

    So Guy if you can buy approved and keep the FSH.it may cost a bit more just now but when/ if you have a major problem. Audi are willing to help.

    Thanks

    The happiest audi Owner
  36. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 29, 2013]
    NOW THAT IS A RESULT and you must be one of the few that Audi have recompensed, well done. That said I was in almost exactly the same position as you with an Audi used approved car that had a full service history and was in my ownership for just over two years old and I got nothing, even after writing several letters to Audi Teesside and to the HO in Milton Keynes. AUDI DID NOT HELP ME OR MANY OTHERS ON HERE, SHAME ON YOU AUDI !
  37. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Apr 29, 2013]
    and ANOTHER THING, I have driven Audis for nearly 25-30 years, most of them have been used approved and Audi gave me BUGGER ALL and yes I did communicate this to Audi HO ...........
  38. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Apr 30, 2013]
    Quick update, a few more emails back and forth with Graham at KMB, parts ordered and will be posted today :icon_thumright:
  39. Bing_IRL
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    Bing_IRL Member VCDS Map User

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    [May 8, 2013]
    Hi Folks,

    Just a quick post here for your info. I have a 2005 A4 TDI with the BLB engine. I''ve 110,000km on it and was concerned about the chain snapping. I was going to get it converted to the PowerMax modified balance shaft and mentioned to an Audi dealer before hand. They came back to me with a price of €1000 to do the full gear conversion, timing belt and oil service. I was pretty happy with that and have had the work done. Great peace of mind! Was it in fact a good deal?

    Cheers,
  40. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [May 8, 2013]
    GREAT DEAL ! You will also get a 24 month Audi warranty on the work done. I paid circa £2000 for almost the same job ( I had the water pump and full timing belt kit replaced at the same time ) 18 months ago.

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