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2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. Chadders
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    Chadders Member

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    [Oct 19, 2012]
    Spoke to Audi UK customers services today very pleasent lady named Gemma or was it Jade spoke to me. I voiced my concerns and gave her my reg number etc also told her it was a BRE engine number. She confirmed my oil pump was chain driven and not gear no oil pump work or associated problems had been carried out by any Audi dealer, and that none had been reported concerning my particular car as in mine! she then said and I quote

    "THE PROBLEMS WITH THE OIL PUMP FAILURE WERE CHASSIS SPECIFIC AND THAT MY CAR WASN'T INCLUDED IN THOSE CARS WITH A PROBLEM,SO I SHOULDN'T BE WORRIED BUT IF I WAS CONCERNED I COULD TAKE IT TO AN AUDI CENTRE AND THEY WOULD ADVISE ME FURTHER"

    So just to clarify and I've read almost all of this thread now the BRE could have has had oil pump failures which are diffrent to the BLB failures. The BRE failures are due to the hex shaft coming loose in its housing meaning the gear which it drives fails to turn and so fails to deliver oil to the various parts that need it.

    The solution is to have a new / modified hex shaft ie 7mm Allen key! or similar and new gear fitted to remedy any possible chance of failure.

    If so can anyone post a link to either an ebay seller provinding this service or another source.

    Finally
    To explain my paranoia the A6 is my third car in 6 months the oil pump on my Accord failed, knackered engine result sold for spare or repair then i bought a V70 D5 which was written off a couple of weeks ago due to a flood which caused hydrolock.

    So i hope this gives some explanation as to my concerns. I just could not afford another car to be written off due to catasrophic engine failure over something that could be prevented for comparably little money.
    Cheers
  2. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Oct 20, 2012]

    I have never heard of a BRE engine being anything other than being a gear driven unit so either you or Gemma have got this wrong as the only chain driven oil pumps are on the BLB coded engines ( unless someone can advise me otherwise ?).
    As for modifying the hex shaft you only need an allen key of the size up from yours and then get a competent machnist to surface grind it to fit the sloppy female mating end. There are quite a few in consistencies in your above posting but as you have been speaking to Audi Customer services its probaby not surprising as they are in my experience a set of polite albeit probably well meaning buy generally technically incompetent set of "suits", that is of course unless you are in Audi management in which case they do an excellent job of fobbing off their customers and protecting the Audi brand.
  3. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Oct 20, 2012]
    lol.
    bre engines, the balance shaft unit gear driven. blbs are chain.

    when you fit the gear set on a blb you are effectivly making it like a bre. thats the idea!
  4. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 20, 2012]
    The early A6's have the same problem as the BLB's so suspect it's right that you have a chain driven.
  5. Chadders
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    Chadders Member

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    [Oct 20, 2012]
    So even tho the engine code is BRE because it was an early one it cld be a chain Audi girl said she'd check with an engineer she rang me back and confirmed it was chain I specificaly asked if it was chain or gear driven
  6. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Oct 21, 2012]
    I wouldn't read much into the BRE engine code being the same code as the A4 but having a chain. The cars with the double-whammy of naff hex shaft & chain are the 2005 A4 B7s, 2005 A6's, 2005 American VW Passat's and I believe the 2005 Skoda Octavia's and Superb's.
  7. Chadders
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    Chadders Member

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    [Oct 21, 2012]
    Great in other words my car
  8. Codestud
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    Codestud New Member

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    [Oct 26, 2012]
    I would just like to add to this thread, that, according to my independent VAG mechanic/specialist, that earlier BRD engine vehicles also suffer from this issue.

    According to him, they were repaired under Audi warranty as a service recall at the time the problem was discovered, and relatively few engines are circulating around which did not have the recall/modified parts fitted.

    He says that he has carried out repairs to several Audi vehicles with this engine code in the past and it is very rare for the engine to become totally scrap, because the engine becomes very noisy first for approx several thousand miles prior to the chain snapping. So, obviously the cases that do happen are the most extreme.

    Looking at the service history of my car (which is a BRD engine from 2006/56), handed to me from the previous owner, a recall was indeed done in 2008 under the code "13D7" for the balance shaft. This is what it will say on the Audi service receipt thing. So, speaking for myself I'm somewhat relieved.

    I'd say to any A4 owner that if you don't know whether the recall was done or not to get it checked at a proper VAG specialist or Audi themselves.
  9. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Oct 26, 2012]

    Don't get too excited, you may not have the chain driven balance shaft but you will have the old hex shaft design to drive ( or not drive ) the oil pump..............
  10. Codestud
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    Codestud New Member

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    [Oct 26, 2012]
    Hi Paul, thanks for that. I've had a string of other reliability issues with my A4 170 (the EGR valve failed just last week). I'm thinking of selling up now. My A4 is at 78K miles.
  11. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Oct 27, 2012]
    Codestud,

    Guess what, my EGR was replaced last week at 78K (the oil pump/balance shaft assembly was replaced at 68k) and I plan on selling my car in the new year.


    Paul B7
  12. ves123
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    ves123 New Member

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    [Oct 28, 2012]
    Hi Guys,

    'Great' reading your posts and reviews - sounds like I am not the only person concerned about this car - is this supposed to be a relief...? Anyways... My question is in regards to whether my car is chain or gear driven. On the Audi service documentation it says the following:

    16k service - car reg 15/04/2005
    32k service - car reg 15/04/2005
    48k service - car reg 29/09/2006
    62k service - car reg 29/09/2006


    Does this mean the engine has had some modifications carried out & therefore the original date of the registration has changed to end of 2006?

    Appreciate your time and help on this.

    Cheers,
    Ves
  13. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Oct 28, 2012]
    All the above means is some idiot has completed your service documentation
    I would suggest you take the time to read ALL the posts in this thread and then you will be wiser and better informed about this Audi design fault.

    Paul B7
  14. ves123
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    ves123 New Member

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    [Oct 28, 2012]
    Hi Paul,

    Really thankful for your quick reply. This is my engine No: 0702**

    Chassis No : WAUZZZ8E35A533***

    2005 model - Pretty sure it is chain driven ...

    Thanks,
    Ves
  15. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Nov 10, 2012]

    There is an unmissable article in the November 2012 edition of Audi Driver which spills the beans on this Audi Design Defect.
    All the troublesome 2.0 tdi engine codes are listed along with what the specific problems are. This Audi Design Defect is aso listed for the Skoda 2.0tdi , some Passat and Seat cars etc etc. More interesting are the list of options now available to those with this defect including parts numbers and the details of companies who offer aftermarket repair kits, some of which are on the continent and whom I have never heard of.This is a quality and quite definitive article that is well worth searching out. Most depressing is the comment that if you haven't had this problem yet, if you keep your car long enough YOU will get this failure.
  16. aerotec
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    aerotec New Member

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    [Nov 13, 2012]
    Thanks to all who have taken the time to keep posting on this thread over the years.

    I have a Audi A4 1.9tdi Avant B5 2000 with 189k miles on the clock and it has been a terrific car in the 9 years I have owned it. I do my own servicing and once got 1000 miles out of a tank (dull 55mph drive across the uk!). I am taking a look at replacing it and am grateful for all the information posted here.

    Based on the information here I was going to just get a 2003 1.9TDI engined A4 but from what I am reading if I get a non-BLB engined A4 around 2006 (based on my budget) and look to get the hex shaft modification fitted then that should negate the main issues of this engine?

    Does anyone have any links/images of how to replace this part? I would be happy to buy a car of I can do this change myself or fairly cheap through an Indy?

    This must be why 05/06 A4 2.0tdi Avants are going for £4-5k on Auto trader!
  17. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Nov 14, 2012]
    if you read the article in Audi Driver-November 2012 all will be revealed.That said and assuming you get a non BLB unit i.e one thats already got a gear driven balance shaft then modifying the hex drive would "appear" to be a cheap and easy.As for other issues with these engnes I believe the only other real issue is with the 2006 170bhp unit injectors which have been the subject of a recall ?
    it's a shame these cars were not made by Toyota or they would have done the professional thing and recalled their cars back to have the design defects rectified and not left it to their customers to pay for the mess Audi have left us with.
    SHAME ON YOU AUDI.
  18. mearnsA4
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    mearnsA4 New Member

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    [Nov 15, 2012]
    Mine was a 2007 2.0TDI 170PS a4 and I was contacted by AUDI/VOSA a few weeks back recalling the car for injectors. Seeing as i sold the car back in April 2012 I declined their kind offer. . . . I also had the hex shaft issue. And the egr valve issue. And the blocked bulkhead drains issue...
  19. murran
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    murran Active Member

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    [Nov 28, 2012]
    had an 07 plate a6 avant in at our garage. bre engine, 130k on it. hex shaft had rounded off.

    replaced all the balance shafts hex bit oil pump as a new unit from tps.
    guy was clever and turned it off soon as the light came on!
    engine/turbo seems to have survived. i took a big end and main off and they looked fine. turbo "play" in the shaft seemed normal.
    ran it up after and its making good oil pressure on a guage.

    got a new rear wiper motor/arm to fit on it tomorrow when it comes.

    thought youd like to know! :)
  20. craig2001
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    craig2001 New Member

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    [Dec 10, 2012]
    This has been quite a long thread and i have read some good informative replies throughout it, that are undoubtedly going to help most people understand the problem.

    I have the weigh in though in response to some of the fear mongering replied which are probably scaring the **** into the average A4 owner, not to mention deterring people from purchasing one themselves.

    first to note is that yes this is a common problem and it seems to be worse in engines with the chain driven design not the later gear driven design. and i could write a long list of common problems with almost all modern cars so its not a shocker there is one.

    secondly if this failure does occur then yes it is likely to land you a very large bill and by the sound of most of the stories of failure there is almost no warning to catastrophic failure.

    Now, i would like to bring to light that yes a engineering design has caused a common fault but if people would stop winging that it is just that and perhaps treat the problem as a large service item then the fault will seems alot less of an issue.

    Think of it this way, you are recommended to change the cam belt at 75k miles.... This is at a cost of a few hundred pounds but if you didn't do it and it fails then your engine is knackered all the same.
    Now why people dont at the same time choose the renew their oil pump, components and drive chain as a preventative measure at the same time is beyond me there are extremely little accounts of failure before 80k miles on these engines so to combine both makes logical sense and would put your mind at rest.

    To sort the oil pump alone would cost a fair bit of cash but if you were to combine it into your major service interval then it would be at a much lesser cost and if your lucky very little over the cost of just parts as labor time would be far less with both jobs combined.

    So as long as your not completely ignorant and aware of the problem, service oil regularly and perhaps change the oil pump components as a precaution you will be able to enjoy all the other fantastic benifits of these engines!!!

    So stop telling everyone who ones a 2.0 tdi that their doomed, failure is imminent and they have and will be pissing their money up the wall, because if your smart about it all problems can be resolved one way or another.
  21. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 10, 2012]
    Thanks for the post Craig. Your points are pertinent but there are some issues I'd like to highlight:

    1) For BLB's, you can no longer buy a new chain from Audi dealers. So if you want to make sure you are buying an Audi part then you have no option but to fork out nearly a grand in parts alone for a design that is faulty. We aren't talking about a simple part change.
    2) If the new parts are not fitted or aligned correctly then you'll shaft your engine so you need to trust whichever garage or yourself to change it.
    3) It isn't listed in any service schedule so unless you are already aware then you won't know to change it or check it until it's too late.
    4) To get to the parts is beyond a lot of owners so they are already having to fork out for someone to take off the front of their car.

    If Audi recognised the fault even behind closed doors, then the least they could do is get the dealerships to check each car when a cambelt is due. This doesn't mean a car can't fail at low mileage (lowest 43k I have on record) but it could minimise and they could even raise it with the owner. It doesn't stop a mammoth bill but at least there is a mechanism to raise it. Of course Audi don't do this as to even attempt to alert dealerships will be admitting blame.
  22. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    They want £5700 to repair my oil pump balance shaft this is dreadful even with a full service history!!!

    [​IMG]
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  23. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    You should post them on their facebook page.
  24. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    Thats what I did originally, just sharing them here! They started to moan saying they'll remove them if I put anymore on... unbelievable service, look at recent posts by other on Audi and have a scroll! Ive gone mad at them.

    Next call of action is to get some signs printed and leave my car next to their entrance on a public road informing other potential customers of this problem.

    Edit: Also I emailed the guy from customer services who originally got in touch he never replied today.

    Getting my boss involved who is a solicitor.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
  25. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]

    Gosh I feel for you ..............
    My repair bill at Audi Teesside was just over £2000 almost 12 months past . I exchanged letters ( seven in total) with Audi Uk and it all came to no avail. I wish you all the very best in this difficult time but fear your efforts will come to little. Others have tried demonstrating, even getting their local radio stations involved and all for nothing. Audi are undoubtedly a very very poor company for the used car buyer to deal with. They rely on slick marketing and are ONLY interested in their next new car sale and not long term customer retention.

    Paul B7
  26. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    I was actually thinking of part exchanging for a Audi A5 coupe, not now!! Especially not now, I'm 19 and they've lost out on my entire life of sales with Audi I'll make sure none of my friends or family buy. As soon as I get this repaired at a local garage I'm selling it and buying a Toyota GT86 or C-Class Coupe, rubbish company will NEVER EVER deal with again.

    Nice cars, rubbish service.
  27. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    Nice looking cars, that where it stops !
  28. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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  29. pls1
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    pls1 New Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    Luckily I just found this site before I purchased a B7 A4 ! I'm about to view a 06 B7 2.0 TDI S Line estate with a BRE engine tomorrow (100k on the clock - £6495).

    I spent a good while reading this thread and decided to phone Audi UK armed with the reg number to try and get more info. Spoke to a helpful lady Gemma as mentioned by someone else on here. Unfortunately she said that they no longer have the system to tell me if the car is chain or gear driven. Is there any other way of finding out? I also have the VIN number.

    It had the cambelt & water pump done at approx 85k miles but I can't find any record of it having the balancer shaft redone. :unsure:
  30. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    Honestly don't even bother, if it goes it'll cost you more to repair than the car itself! Avoid avoid avoid...
  31. pls1
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    pls1 New Member

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    [Dec 12, 2012]
    I found an interesting page about the oil pump issue here: Oil pump and balance shaft module failure on 2.0L VW and Audi TDI engines

    I get the impression that BRE gear driven engines are less likely to have the balancer shaft wear since this is mainly (but not completely) due to the chain driven components in other engines if they loose tension and cause excess vibration.
  32. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Hi pls interesting page I will print that off

    [​IMG]
  33. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    Well they got in touch to say my facebook posts are "deflamitory" and rather than try offer to fix my issue they are now offering £3600 to repair it, they can get on there bike if they want to take a customer to court over posts on Facebook rather than fix an extremely dangerous fault thats caused crashes what does this say about the type of company they are.
  34. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Dec 13, 2012]
    The subject of the dreaded 2.0tdi oil pump balance shaft failures is dealt with in great detail in the November issue of Audi Driver.
    If you drive a 2005-2007/8 2.0 tdi powered B7 model and think you will be immune to this problem go read this article and think again .............................
  35. SnakeOilDirect
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    SnakeOilDirect New Member

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    [Dec 20, 2012]
    Just got it back repaired at a local garage for £1600 (better than Audi's £5700) the turbo has been damaged but its not dead.
  36. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 20, 2012]
    Glad it's back on the road again.
  37. A4Chad
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    A4Chad Member

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    [Dec 20, 2012]
    Wow, what a thread to read through.. there are some serious issues with this.

    Please forgive me though, I am a newbie, just bought an 07 2.0tdi cab, with a bpw engine code.. Which I guess means I have a geared oil pump but possible issues around the hex key style balance shaft. Is that right?
  38. Wrath
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    Wrath Well-Known Member

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    [Dec 21, 2012]
    From what we know all the 2.0TDI B7 engines have the hex shaft issues unless resolved with the newer parts.
  39. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Dec 21, 2012]

    Great result all considered and i am pleased your back up and running !
  40. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Dec 21, 2012]
    It didn't last. Check the latest posts on his own individual thread

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