2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

[watchdog]

This is really bad it’s just happened to me, my Audi is a 2005 2.0tdi and yes it’s a BLB engine the car starts but goes straight back off, same things rattling engine, black smoke no power etc etc etc how can AUDI be getting away with this - it took me 3 years to save up for this car and now it doesn’t even drive I could cry! btw I have only had the car a few months.

I have posted this story on watchdogs website in the hope that the story reaches the TV so everyone who hasn’t already looked on forums such as this will be wanting to also complain, I’m not sure if this has already been done but if everyone on this forum does the same thing we may (fingers crossed) get something out of Audi.

Please follow this link and express your feelings to Watchdog. Please please please let’s all unite and get Audi to recall all the BLB engines back. It will take no more than 5 minutes of your time.

BBC - Watchdog - - Got a story

 

[Paul B7]

Here's the update on my last post;

Audi Main dealer Price for a New Balance Shaft/OilPump/Sump etc Fitted £1539.79 inc VAT but with oil as extra (whats that about ?)
Audi Main dealer Price for the above with a new timing belt kit and water pump replacement at the same time add £241.32
Total for everything above ( with the oil ) £1846.11 including VAT.
These prices are in the NE with discounted rates for vehicles over 6 years old ( labour less 50% and parts less 17 1/2 %) at my Audi Main Dealers.

Independant Engine Builder wanted nearly £2400 including VAT for the same job ( i.e including water pump and timing belt kit)!

BAD NEWS; The parts are on back order, there are no parts available at this time in the UK.

I have opened a dispute with Audi UK and I am waiting for the Main dealer to advise me when the parts are here.

Keep you posted with my progress............................

 

[watchdog]

2005 A4 2.0TDi B7

Hi im in abit of a bother, My car was lacking power letting out lots of black smoke, i parked it up when i tried to start it back up it fired up but went staright back off, i tried this a few times and same thing it starts up but turns straighjt back off, noticed its smokes from the exaust when i try and start it.

This all started a few weeks back when the engine oil light came on the dash i stopped at the local petrol station and bought some oil and topped it up, all seemed fine untill now.

I have checked the timing belt its not snapped, I looked at the EGR valve which is in the open position, i noticed than when i put the ignition on the flap closes but opens again. Im stuck i realy dont know what to do, i dont know any good Audi mechanic and cant affor to take it to the stealers

PLEASE SOMEBODY HELP ME

 

[Paul B7]

Here's the update on my last post;

Audi Main dealer Price for a New Balance Shaft/OilPump/Sump etc Fitted £1539.79 inc VAT but with oil as extra (whats that about ?)
Audi Main dealer Price for the above with a new timing belt kit and water pump replacement at the same time add £241.32
Total for everything above ( with the oil ) £1846.11 including VAT.
These prices are in the NE with discounted rates for vehicles over 6 years old ( labour less 50% and parts less 17 1/2 %) at my Audi Main Dealers.

Independant Engine Builder wanted nearly £2400 including VAT for the same job ( i.e including water pump and timing belt kit)!

BAD NEWS; The parts are on back order, there are no parts available at this time in the UK.

I have opened a dispute with Audi UK and I am waiting for the Main dealer to advise me when the parts are here.

Keep you posted with my progress............................

All, Update to my problem is that THERE WILL BE NO BALANCE SHAFT/OIL PUMP KITS in the UK until the end of November 2011.
I have just been advised this by AUDI CUSTOMER SERVICE .

 

[Paul B7]

All, Update to my problem is that THERE WILL BE NO BALANCE SHAFT/OIL PUMP KITS in the UK until the end of November 2011.
I have just been advised this by AUDI CUSTOMER SERVICE .

.............and I am STILL WAITING FOR PARTS due to the wonderul VAG supply chain.
My B7 has now been off the road for 3 weeks , geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[alwal0307]

.............and I am STILL WAITING FOR PARTS due to the wonderul VAG supply chain.
My B7 has now been off the road for 3 weeks , geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Hi All
New to this site I've got the same problem was told that the balance shaft/oil pump would be delivered to dealer last Friday but still waiting for unit. The difference with my car it's a Chrysler (Same Engine with Gear Module). This is week 6 after breakdown.3weeks waiting for Chrysler with answer to Goodwill.

 

[Wrath]

Hi All
New to this site I've got the same problem was told that the balance shaft/oil pump would be delivered to dealer last Friday but still waiting for unit. The difference with my car it's a Chrysler (Same Engine with Gear Module). This is week 6 after breakdown.3weeks waiting for Chrysler with answer to Goodwill.

Chrysler use Audi engines?! Surely not!

 

[Radek1980]

Madphil - Sorry to hear about your problems. Sounds like the same problem but I would get it checked out. According to ETKA (the Audi parts catalogue), the early BPW (VIN No up to 8E -6-080 171) has the chain drive for the oil pump whilst BPW engines fitted to cars with VIN Nos after 8E -6-080 172 have the gear drive for the oil pump. Hope that helps.
BRgds
Al

Hello Albarker01

A am new to this forum. I saw what you wrote re: VIN nos before. Could you please tell me what balance shaft have I got: chain or gear driven oil pump. My VIN no is 8E66A090367.
I just got off the phone with local Audi dealer thinking that I had a chain one, but he told me that I have a gear one. This would be right according to what you wrote. I gave that poor chap my reg no and asked him to quote me on upgrade of balance shaft and he gave it to me. Then I asked him what have I got and he said an upgraded one. He didn't tell me that I don't need to upgrade it as I've already got it. This makes me a little bit speechless. I don't know if I still got potentially this awful problem with my pump/turbo/engine? Can you help me to understand it please?
Cheers

 

[alwal0307]

Chrysler use Audi engines?! Surely not!

The Chrysler Sebring has the 1968cc 140bhp Engine.
The Chrysler 300 has a Mercedes Engine!
Been told today my replacement Oil Pump/Balance shaft will in the UK 1st Week in December.

 

[Trumpyman]

No parts for this until mid-December is what i have been told tonight...Yes i hang my head,i didn't listen to you guys,i bought that heap and we had it for ALMOST 3 weeks before the comment ' Whats That Noise' (should become Fraudi's signiture).

Short version of events - Bought car thinking all was safe as conversion been done,turbo all ok,nice little runner. 3 Weeks into ownership,wife (main driver) comes home from work,i whip out in Audi,'WTN' i thought.Wife states it started that day. I can best describe it as a clicking,NOT a rattle. And only when warm,NOT on cold start up. Books it into local Fraudi stealer following day -Turbo and Balance shaft iminent failure - do not drive vehicle WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So basically ours has failed after 1880 miles,(roughly 400 miles of our ownership).It transpires that the garage that did the initial conversion,a garage in Crawley,DID NOT TIME THE SHAFT correctly,causing premeture wear.This is the SECOND unit they have fitted.Their first failed immediately. I am lucky in that the garage that we bought the car from is honouring his warranty...he is stumping up to sort this,and unusually for me i feel for him as he did not do the work.He decided to take the car to his local Fraudi dealer to carry out the work,to be sure it was done correctly...that was 4 weeks ago.We have all been fobbed and fobbed regarding delivery dates,we have had 3 deadlines now.Resolved to the fact we will not see this car back this side of Xmas. The reason according 2 Fraudi??? A run of 'sudden failures' has caused a back up...And they still won't do a recall,because there is no fault. Our garage guy wishes to do a written complaint,anyone know where the top address is?? Will keep you posted, now iv'e got over the initial embarrassment of admitting i actually bought one of these. Thank god for my 12 year old 155 k £250 super -reliable Vauxhall Vectra V6 that no money could prise me away from, knock spots of the Audi hands down.


One small P.S. - Our local stealer stated iminent Turbo failure.However,our garage dealers local stealer (we are in different counties) stated that it is fine...So i am saving that one up...The wife,on her second complaint to the dealers stealer asked to have it in writing that they have stated the turbo is fine,which they now will not do as they cannot test as the engine is a non-runner!!!!!!!!! WTF #2...So one Fraudi stealer will not go against another ,shock horror..pity i have it in writing...Someone,somewhere is lying and will be found out. Either my turbo is dead,or alive,which is it Fraudi???I will let you know how it unfolds,now i've 'come out' to owning one of these. Never felt so embarrassed.

 

[herbie]

I so had my heart on buying a 170 TDi until spotting this thread and the other one regarding the dodgy injectors!!
Glad I bought the TFSi instead.

 

[Paul B7]

I so had my heart on buying a 170 TDi until spotting this thread and the other one regarding the dodgy injectors!!
Glad I bought the TFSi instead.

I am hoping you didn't buy an automatic.................what a nightmare that would be, BLB engine with a Multitronic Box.
Oh by the way, for anyone reading my last few posts I am still waiting for Audi to get the replacement oil pump/balance shaft kit into the UK to fix by BLB engined B7. No parts in the UK now for the last three nearly four weeks.

Don't you just love the VAG group ?

 

[alwal0307]

How are they a safer bet?? Have read of some of my posts on this page and then ask yourself if the later BRE or 170ps BRD engine are a safer bet.
If anything they are worse!! They fail from 60000 miles. With the BLB engines you get a sudden oil pressure failure, with the BRE, the hex shaft rounds and slips. This slipping drops your oil pressure but only sets off the warning when it really can turn the pump no more.
When it finally sets off your warning light your turbo has already been running with low oil pressure for an unknown length of time.
Both of these engines have the later version of the balancer/oil pump assembly which they are upgrading the BLB motors with once the original has failed.

The housing of the balancer/oil pump assembly was recently modified slightly, the new spare part now has a few less bolts holding the casting together. BUT, the weak point....the hex drive to the oil pump inside the unit is EXACTLTY THE SAME, NOT CHANGED, IDENTICAL, RUBBISH.
The hex shaft has slop where it locates into the oil pump, it will wear fast and will fail!

I've been told my New Oil Pump Assembly will only be in UK December, i've read somewhere that VAG had stopped producing these units until they have modified them. I will be more happy with the car after it's repair if they have sorted the hex drive issue. Has anyone heard anything regarding these modifications???

 

[stanley1]

hi all, new to audis and this forum and after reading the last 6/7 pages of this thread im horrified to say the least. ive just laid out £10,000 for an 06 plate 2.0tdi cabrio with bpw enging code and 55000 miles on it. full audi service history with the last longlife one at 51500.
im concerned to say the least and i feel very sad for all the affected people with this oil pump issue. any advice for me?? it runs like a dream with no noises or problems so far (had it a week)
thanks guys, seems to be blb's are main problem but id like to speak to another bpw owner for advice on other engine parts too

thanks again

 

[Wrath]

I've been told my New Oil Pump Assembly will only be in UK December, i've read somewhere that VAG had stopped producing these units until they have modified them. I will be more happy with the car after it's repair if they have sorted the hex drive issue. Has anyone heard anything regarding these modifications???

No and you won't find out what the modifications are because if there was a fault, say a manufacturing fault, then everyone would have a case against Audi. Last time I checked, the parts were modified in December 2010.

 

[Paul B7]

No and you won't find out what the modifications are because if there was a fault, say a manufacturing fault, then everyone would have a case against Audi. Last time I checked, the parts were modified in December 2010.

There is a posting on Phil Jowitts Facebook (Audi,Not the quality car they advertise) from some chap in Bulgaria that says there will be no parts in Bulgaria until week 51 i.e the third week in December. The same posting claims that Audi have stopped manufacture of the replacement Balance Shaft/Oil Pump Kits as they are bringing out a VERSION THREE, presumably to get around the hex shaft rounding off and destroying the BRE engines etc etc i.e ANY of the 2.0 TDI Engines with the gear driven set up, does this then mean all the 2.0 tdi engines found in the B7 models?
Hopefully I will be able to advise an update on parts availability later this week as Audi Customer Services last advised the replacement parts would be iin the UK at the end of November. I shall be calling them mid week.

This awful situation is compounded by the Audi supply chain not even being to supply the replacement parts necessary to keep or in some cases get our vehicles on the road.

I am really anti VAG at this juncture ........................

 

[stanley1]

what a nigtmare, any advice for me? ive the bpw engine. perhaps i should look into replacing mine before anything goes wrong

 

[Wrath]

Get a friendly mechanic to take the sump off and then look to see if there is any wear on the shaft itself. If not then no point changing, if so then get it modified.

 

[cphaza]

Hi guys

Can i just clarify something? My blb already has the gear driven oil pump in it. Ive got it all stripped out already but i am struggling to find any wear and tear in the pump. Its all clean in there and everything moves fine, the teeth on the cogs/gears look healthy. i have the pump assembley off and cant find any reason why my low oil pressure light is showing at revs (no warning on tickover, no rattles or bangs). Stopped using it the second the light first came on so hopeing ive saved the rest of the engine. Anyone shed any light on what i should be looking for?

Cheers

Chris

 

[Wrath]

In my opinion it doesn't sound like you have the balancer shaft problem if there is no rattling noise. Have you got a duff sensor or is the oil pump knacked? Did you find any sludge in the oil?

 

[cphaza]

no mate, clean as a whistle. Everything moves fine, looks fine....after being aware of this issue i didnt run the car for long after the warning first appeared. How obvious should the wear in the shaft be? Anyone have any pics so i can see what a knackered one looks like?

 

[Paul B7]

Audi called me yesterday to say they had my new balance shaft/oil pump kit in (only been nearly five weeks since it was ordered ) stock and my car is in next week to have the rattling chain assembly replaced.
I will find out next week if this is the third reinvention of the assembly and i will report back in due course.

Just as well we have a Toyota to get around in or I would have been without a car for at least five weeks ..........................

 

[horan5]

Hi chaps

Had complete failure of oil pump which resulted in blown turbo and cracked block as the chain went through the casing just waiting on final costing for BKD engine block and all parts but bill with labour will be over £4000. Had car since new fully serviced by Audi on 108,000 service due in one week. Audi not interested with great guy in Hoylake who is Audi VW specialist.

Car was over £30,000 with shed load of extra's! 2005 A4 2.0TDI S line Avant should have got a 1.9TDI

 

[satsuma]

Sorry to say I have had a problem with my BRE engine A4 2.0 TDI. It was running a bit rough at idle for a week but when I took it to the local garage they thought it was ok for a deisel. Yesterday, while driving, I heard a slight cough from the engine and to be honest I dont think I would have heard anything had I not been listening carefully for any abnormal sounds. I pulled over within about 15 to 30 seconds and just as I was pulling over the power steering went off, no warning lights appeared before that. The car would not start so there is a good chance oil pump failed. I left it with a local mechanic and he confirmed the timing belt is still on and the alternator is ok. Next stop is to pull the sump off and assess if the engine is seized, though the mechanic thinks it is seized without checking the actual engine. The motor was serviced by Audi in Sep and it would have been nice of they had warned me that there are such problems with Audi. Like many I paid top doller to have a reliable car, I am anoyed as my family could have been in the car and it was just by luck that noone was hurt. Only 60, 000 on the clock and the car has had no expense spared in the past. Not happy as I was about to buy a new Audi but doubt I would trust them now.

 

[Wrath]

I do wonder whether these issues will start cropping up with the B8's in the next few years or have they got a completely different engine?

 

[satsuma]

Just hoping that its not going to cost too much money will let you all know how I get on. If you own an A4 its worth doing some preventative maintenance yourself and getting to know the car rather than relying on Audi.

 

[satsuma]

Just confirmed the motor is a gear driven oil pump, my local parts specialist says the pump assembley is on order with Audi so even if I need one it will take some time. Although he thought I would just need a new pump and some gears......no new assembley may be needed. Fingers crossed.

 

[paul_in_york]

I had my oil pressure light come on this morning. Took it to the garage, they suspect its the balance shaft assembly, probably £1000+ to fix. Seems like such a common problem. There really should have been a recall on these cars, but as it doesn't crop up until they 5-6 years old and having done 80k miles+ they probably don't care! Anybody managed to get Audi to cover the cost as its defective design?

 

[Trumpyman]

I cannot understand how Audi can get away with treating people like horan5 - Bought from new,AUDI FSH and two fingers up??? We have since joined Phil Jowitt's growing number on facebook and are going to write to Audi UK and Watchdog,if only to add to the numbers. Talking of numbers,does anyone have an idea yet how many have failed? I think i counted well over 50 on this forum alone around two months ago.Following on from Phils facebook ,i was surprised to hear of other models being affected,the 2.5 for one.That was a model that i would have considered...

PaulB7 - nice one,at least you have movement.Ours has been at Exeter Audi now for roughly 5 weeks,almost forgotten that we own it.Would feel a lot better if we knew there WAS a 3rd generation shaft coming out with the hex mod. How do you intend to determine this - surely Audi themselves are not going to admit to this??

 

[Trumpyman]

Satsuma - what year is yours? And can anyone enlighten me as to the BKD engine type,our 05 A4 avant has the ill - fated BLB,what is the difference with the BKD ??

 

[alwal0307]

My car is a Chrysler with the same Oil Pump/balance shaft module (Geared). Mine failed at 60290mls 290 mls out of warranty with (FSH)After 3 weeks waiting for good will Chrysler said they will pay for the pump i need to pay all the labour,oil filters etc.Then i need to know if turbo has gone ? I have emailed VOSA regarding this problem and they have taken a interest has with mine there was a problem with the servo causing the brakes pedal to go hard to press.
To people that has had problem with the oil pump contact VOSA the more emails they receive the better chance something will happen this goes with VW,Skoda,Seat cars.
PS still waiting for Pump to arrive been 7 weeks today!

 

[Wrath]

I cannot understand how Audi can get away with treating people like horan5 - Bought from new,AUDI FSH and two fingers up??? We have since joined Phil Jowitt's growing number on facebook and are going to write to Audi UK and Watchdog,if only to add to the numbers. Talking of numbers,does anyone have an idea yet how many have failed? I think i counted well over 50 on this forum alone around two months ago.Following on from Phils facebook ,i was surprised to hear of other models being affected,the 2.5 for one.That was a model that i would have considered...

The problem is that Audi have sold hundreds of thousands of these cars, all you can get off the forums is around 50. VOSA have not shown any interest so far as they don't classify it as a safety issue. Noone has had a reply from Watchdog as yet. There are a couple of cases of Audi giving goodwill gestures but these are very few and the car has to have a FSH and be in warranty.

And if you think its only TDIs with the problem....it isn't...I had an email a while ago from someone with a petrol engine and the car seized on the motorway! Also worth noting that a BLB engine went sour after only 43,000 miles.

The other problem is, if you get your car fixed at an Audi garage then it gets logged onto Audi UK's system and they have to report clusters of faults back to the factory. However, if you get a dealer to investigate and quote but go elsewhere for the work, Audi UK don't get notified.

It's a crappy problem, just amazed I haven't heard the same issue with A3 or Seat owners. They have the same 2.0 TDI although it's placed differently to ours.

 

[Wrath]

Nice article:

Oil pump and balance shaft module failure on 2.0L VW and Audi TDI engines

 

[Lewis583]

For anyone that wants to see the part(s) that wear, see images below. This balanceshaft assy/oil pump assy was removed from a 2005 VW Passat 2.0TDi with a BKP engine code on IIRC approx 70,000miles, thats we had in. The owner continued driving, with oil pressure light on, until it got the stage where the vacuum pump stopped working and he lost brakes Note: This particular balanceshaft assy/oil pump was GEAR driven from the crankshaft.


Pictures 3,4&5 are of the hex drive that drives the oil pump.
Apologies for the blurry/**** pics, only had my iPhone to hand.

 

[Paul B7]

I cannot understand how Audi can get away with treating people like horan5 - Bought from new,AUDI FSH and two fingers up??? We have since joined Phil Jowitt's growing number on facebook and are going to write to Audi UK and Watchdog,if only to add to the numbers. Talking of numbers,does anyone have an idea yet how many have failed? I think i counted well over 50 on this forum alone around two months ago.Following on from Phils facebook ,i was surprised to hear of other models being affected,the 2.5 for one.That was a model that i would have considered...

PaulB7 - nice one,at least you have movement.Ours has been at Exeter Audi now for roughly 5 weeks,almost forgotten that we own it.Would feel a lot better if we knew there WAS a 3rd generation shaft coming out with the hex mod. How do you intend to determine this - surely Audi themselves are not going to admit to this??

I will get a list of the part numbers being fitted next week . If the part has indeed been revised it will have a different part number and I will report back to the forum in due course. For the record I have now written to Audi customer services three times in the last five weeks making all attempts to expedite the release of the pars. The Main dealer I have gone through here in the NE has been excellent and as helpful as possible so I have no grumbles there, only with Audi UK, THE TWATS !

 

[satsuma]

To answer the question asked my motor is a BRE so its grear driven, however the oil pump drive for these also is prone to fail due to rounding off of a hex drive. Will not have anything else to report until mid week as the car is with local mechanic. It may be of interest that the local car specialist has sold 300 sets of parts for failed or failing Audi oil pumps in recent months. It seems to be the luck of the draw as to how much damage results form the failure.

 

[tangosierra]

Hello folks
I'm new in here and this is my first post.
Sorry if my technical terms are inaccurate, but I'm what you call a froggy and so English is not my native language.
I've suffered the same issue on a A6 BRE 2.0 TDI with 260 000 km : oil alarm, engine seizure along with dead compressor.
At my local garage (not VAG but they're all alike I guess) told me the complete engine had to be changed. So I took my car back, removed engine and completely parted it. Found the faulty shaft, repaired it with Loctite magic metal steel, and replaced rod bearings.
Also got Ekta, Elsawin, VAG-Com + cable and now I'm ready to put the big puzzle back in place. But stupid me, before unassembling the balancing shaft module I did not take not of the moving elements positions.
I imagine it goes like this :

[/URL][/IMG]

If anybody could tell me how the shafts are positionned, that would be great.
Cheers
TS

 

[Paul B7]

Hello folks
I'm new in here and this is my first post.
Sorry if my technical terms are inaccurate, but I'm what you call a froggy and so English is not my native language.
I've suffered the same issue on a A6 BRE 2.0 TDI with 260 000 km : oil alarm, engine seizure along with dead compressor.
At my local garage (not VAG but they're all alike I guess) told me the complete engine had to be changed. So I took my car back, removed engine and completely parted it. Found the faulty shaft, repaired it with Loctite magic metal steel, and replaced rod bearings.
Also got Ekta, Elsawin, VAG-Com + cable and now I'm ready to put the big puzzle back in place. But stupid me, before unassembling the balancing shaft module I did not take not of the moving elements positions.
I imagine it goes like this :

[/URL][/IMG]

If anybody could tell me how the shafts are positionned, that would be great.
Cheers
TS

Theres a special Tool to align the shafts , I believe its part number T10255 , there's a few for sale on ebay uk at this moment in time, quite cheap at circa £28,you need to search for Audi oil Pumps/Balance Shafts etc and along with a host of used parts and replacement parts for this trouble there is a vendor selling the tool you need.

Paul B

 

[tangosierra]

Thanks Paul B, ElsaWin describes how align the balancing shafts module with the engine, and I know about the T10255 tool. My problem is I opened the module itself, took both shafts out, repaired the small one, cleaned up everything and now that I want to put everything back together - dear dear, how were the shafts previously aligned ? Note I did not remove any of the gears - in this case they would all need to be replaced.
Thanks
TS

 

[stanley1]

ok so im still concerned with my a4 2.0 tdi code bpw and have just taken out a planinum warranty with warranty wise. my car has full audi service history and 56000miles on the clock. acording to my warranty i can take the car in with and suspected problems and have it investigated and anything replaced if needed. im gonna just go down audi and say i want my oil pump looking at as i think its on its way out due to what info ive found out and see if i can get a replacement before it fails, bit of a long shot i guess but got to be better then it actually failing right? any thoughts??
the car had its last longlife service at 51000 and i only just had another oil and air filter change last week. im guessing that more regular oil changes cant be a bad thing so im gonna do it every 5k