1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

2.0 TDI oil pump / balance shaft failure?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by P Crr, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. P Crr
    Offline

    P Crr Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 1, 2009]
    I have a 2.0 Tdi with a BLB engine. The car has done 83K. Should I be concerned with this concern. Is it just some cars that are affected. Are there many people out there with very high mileage who have had no problems?? Can the engine be checked easily to see if there is any wear on these items. Are there any similar concerns on the BRE engine?
    #1
  2. Ads

    Ads

    [Sep 18, 2014]

  3. Wrath
    Offline

    Wrath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    40
    [Nov 1, 2009]
    Good question. I'm thinking that it isn't a problem in the vast majority...or is that hoping?

    Anyone know how much the replacement parts are from Audi?
    #2
  4. jwhat
    Offline

    jwhat Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 1, 2009]
    I don't know if it can be checked easily or not, maybe if you notice the oil pump leaking? Im only on 49k so can't comment on high mileage. I just hope it isn't a common thing. I'm pretty sure the bre or at least the later bre engines have this problem, although maybe there aren't enough of them having done high mileage to know yet?
    #3
  5. Good 2 B A Gooner
    Offline

    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 1, 2009]
    My neighbor works for Audi, and says there is a known fault with this, as has been discussed in previous posts.

    I'm going to get this checked soon, he said there is a replacement modified part, so it should be cheapish to fix in a preventative measure - Don't think millage has anything to do with it.

    Also he says it's on very early A4's i.e. brb etc, and shouldn't affect those made later as the parts where updated.

    Once i find out more i'll let you know.:hi:
    #4
  6. Six-speed
    Offline

    Six-speed New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 6, 2009]
    I'll check my receipts, cos my motor was rebuilt at 72k, and I think it might have been the balance shaft. 2.0TDi 140PS engine if that helps.

    Work done by Audi dealer who paid for work on a 'goodwill' basis (before I owned car).

    I'll dig out the stuff and have a look. It weren't cheap!

    :wtf:
    #5
  7. Wrath
    Offline

    Wrath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    40
    [Nov 6, 2009]
    Cheers, that would be much appreciated. Hopefully it is relatively straightforward and cheap to do before any symptoms show. I was concerned that it was just a scam so I'd put the same part numbers back in.

    So if I asked at the dealership will they be open that there is a problem or is it hush-hush?

    #6
  8. Six-speed
    Offline

    Six-speed New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 7, 2009]
    BRACE YOURSELF!!!

    Just checked the Audi Bristol invoice for my car that went wrong at 75719 miles (now on 104,000+).

    To qoute their invoice:
    "New engine required due to balance shaft failure"

    Labour £1520 (!!)
    Parts (Effing loads of £)

    Total invoice came to... ...wait for it...










    £3452.21 !!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm only glad it's now been done and the previous owner (company vehicle) forked out. Phew!!

    Above work involved replacing the cam belt at the same time.

    Oh, and this bill included a £893.18 'goodwill contribution' from Audi, so in reality it should have been £4300!

    Let's just hope it isn't the balance shaft

    My engine is 2.0TDi 140bhp, and engine code BLB.

    Hope this helps and doesn't make you feel too sick.

    :wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf: :Flush:
    #7
  9. Mags
    Offline

    Mags Have you seen my keys?

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 7, 2009]
    :sign_omg:

    Crikey, makes you wonder just what they replaced for that kind of money.

    Mines in for some work atm, but I'm now very interested in my engine number.

    Can anyone please tell me the symptoms that show, when this fault arises.
    #8
  10. Six-speed
    Offline

    Six-speed New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 7, 2009]
    4 pages worth of 'bits'. To be fair, £500 was VAT on the whole lot.

    Can't help with symptoms as it all happened before I owned it. Sorry.
    #9
  11. Wrath
    Offline

    Wrath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    40
    [Nov 7, 2009]
    Does your invoice specify the cost individually of the shaft and oil pump?
    #10
  12. jwhat
    Offline

    jwhat Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1
  13. P Crr
    Offline

    P Crr Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 8, 2009]
    As said my car has 83K on it. If its lasted this long does it mean mine may not fail or is this wishfull thinking. Are they many people with in excess of 100k who have not had any problems??
    #12
  14. Six-speed
    Offline

    Six-speed New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 9, 2009]
    Dug out repair invoice again.

    Doesn't specifically mention replacement balance shaft in replacement parts list, but does mention a 'repair kit', Part No.: A03G 198 119. Haven't a clue what this would be though.

    Main expense is the engine shortblock and cylinder head, so whether they would include a balance shaft within this part?

    Sorry can't be more help.
    #13
  15. weggie
    Offline

    weggie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 16, 2009]
    1st sign is rattly engine and then perhaps grinding noise. if you don't fix then it could lead to engine failure when chain breaks and then no oil!!!. The following coments beloow are taken from this whole thread.:banghead:

    http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/...57454&i=999999&nmt=A4 Tdi oil pump chain woes

    As you will see, this thread has allot of comments about the problem.

    "IF the chain didn't break yet and the upper gear isnt worn, you CAN just replace the chain and the tensioner and the oil pump drive gear(the one that bolts too the oil pump). Audi still sell them, I did one last week, and the week before, its a perfectly acceptable repair. !!HOWEVER!! if the upper gear on the end of the crankshaft has had its teeth worn or damaged by running with what will now be a misshaped chain,"

    The £4300 head replacement has been caused by the small 50p plastic guide failure, can you belive how bad this design is!!!!!. The thread shows pics of a failure from an indi garage repair carried out recently, you can see the broken plastic guide causing the metal pluger to rub on the chain and the gears have have there teeth warn away.

    This one had a short block as the gear did not come off the shaft. Block like that is £1500 ish + vat and its a big job swapping the head and other components, 15-20 hours labour. hence £4300 bill I suspect.

    Note tech says "you CAN just replace the chain and the tensioner and the oil pump drive gear(the one that bolts too the oil pump). Audi still sell them, I did one last week, and the week before, its a perfectly acceptable repair. !!HOWEVER!! if the upper gear on the end of the crankshaft has had its teeth worn or damaged by running with what will now be a misshaped chain, then its a really bad idea, unless your driving it straight to an auction."

    I would be interested why Audi have put their head in sand and not warned 2005 TDi owners. but they did change the design for 2006!!!. This not only Audi but passat and Gold and skoda TDi's. check out there threads.

    I wonder if small claims court is an option!!
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2009
    #14
  16. jwhat
    Offline

    jwhat Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 16, 2009]
    I was going to get my cambelt done in April when the car will be 5 years old, hopefully my car lasts until then and I can change the chain and tensioner and oil pump drive gear!
    #15
  17. weggie
    Offline

    weggie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 16, 2009]
    Out of interest, when do the cambelt need to get done i.e what mileage and year? my avante 2L 2005 has 76K miles, Oh and rattly engine, with, I suspect the above problem.

    "If the sproket on the end of the crank has no wear on its teeth you can replace just the chain + tensioner + oil pump drive sproket and thats it, (new cambelt at the same time obviously)

    If the teeth on the sproket are damaged then you need the costly conversion, only way to tell is to expose the sproket, which is sump off, cam belt off and front crankshaft oil seal housing off (5-6 hours ish)

    Good luck to whoever does the conversion, that sproket is a pain to get off the crank, if it comes off at all. Not sure what the labour time is for that, we've never had much luck getting them off."
    #16
  18. jwhat
    Offline

    jwhat Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 16, 2009]
    I think it's 5 years or 80k whichever comes sooner. I'm on 49k at the minute and will be 5 years in April and I have a rattly engine but I don't know if it's normal or not!
    #17
  19. weggie
    Offline

    weggie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 16, 2009]
    I am told by audi dealer tha the timming belt replacement is usually about £350. The I assume that some of the quoted time to carry out the replacement of the chain + tensioner + oil pump drive sproket is 5- 6 hrs,

    I assume that 2-3 hrs is required for cambelt alone, so if I am lucky i won't loose out too much. But if crank teeth are worn, I could be looking at 3 to 4K!!!!!.

    If I were you I would not leave it too long before you change the belt. You could save a fortune!!!.
    #18
  20. jwhat
    Offline

    jwhat Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 16, 2009]
    Yeah but it's coming up to Christmas and I want new wheels, I might drop into my local indy and ask for a quote during the week.

    Any idea what you are going to do weggie?
    #19
  21. weggie
    Offline

    weggie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 20, 2009]
    I went to local Audi dealer today, they had a good listen to my car, even with stethoscopes. And, yes they think it is the oil pump chain. They said they do not replace the faulty part - like for like as "there are no parts". So it requires a costly conversion to a positive system, this is £770 plus vat and about 10 -15 hours at 75 per hour, "and the rest I thought!!!!!".

    I am thinking about taking this further with Audi UK, perhaps even small claims court or something, any thoughts or advice anyone???. Perhaps watchdog, the papers, motor magazines, or even the internet!!!

    I asked local dealer "why is there a known problem now, and nothing has been done about it!". No real answer apart from them. "They say that there is not a huge problem with engine so need for a re-call. "

    So apart from what you read on the net about "a known problem", nobody is alerting the owners of current cars. It seems to me that if they no longer sell the parts to replace the chain and the tensioner and the oil pump drive gear, So you now have to spend a min of £1000 on a new system, i.e "replaced the entire assembly with a chainless setup" and also pay for 15 hrs labour for the pleasure of fixing their own design cock up!!!!!:mad:. And that is if the problem of the brocken cogg does not occur, i.e "some one reported a car he had - which had a short block and the gear did not come off the shaft. So Block replacwement like this was an extra £1500 ish + vat and its a big job swapping the head and other components, 15-20 hours labour". "For Fecks sake Audi, get a grip!!!!
    "
    So why not tell this to the hundreds or thousands of people like me in this current position!!!

    Very pissed off Audi owner.
    #20
  22. Wrath
    Offline

    Wrath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    40
    [Nov 21, 2009]
    I wonder if the cost of a used engine from a scrappy would be a cheaper option.
    #21
  23. everogere
    Offline

    everogere New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2009]
    Ive done a bit of reading on this subject but I am still unsure whether my car has this updated conversion to gears rather than a chain. Does anyone know how to tell ??? Thanks
    #22
  24. Kunit
    Offline

    Kunit Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2009]
    There are no chains, before or after the conversion of modified gears
    #23
  25. everogere
    Offline

    everogere New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 21, 2009]
    So how do i tell if mine has the conversion or if it is the new design??
    Its a 2005 TDI .
    #24
  26. jwhat
    Offline

    jwhat Member VCDS Map User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2006
    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1
    [Nov 22, 2009]
    It seems to only affect blb engine's and the later bre's are ok. You would have to check your service history to be fully sure, to see if it got done at some stage.
    #25
  27. weggie
    Offline

    weggie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 22, 2009]
    When I went to Indy garage, they guessed the problem straight away, they have had a few to deal with. The engineer phoned somone, and gave them the car ref no from log book, this person confirmed it was the old chain system.

    It seems to me that most 2005 have the old, I also get impression they were changed around 2006. i suggest you call Audi service department and and give them this ref no, they will tell you what you have. even if it has the chain, the problems would appear only to be occurring in some cars and often 70 to 120K on clock. Mind you, I am only picking up from what i read in Passat and Audi forums and am definitely no expert.

    I read some thread that stated the audi driver magazine had an article about it, i guess it was april 2009 edition, i don't suppose any one has this and can scan it?. iw was the article - "Technical view: 2.0 TDI oil pump drive problems"

    I would be very interested to read what is says.

    http://www.audidrivermag.co.uk/
    #26
  28. weggie
    Offline

    weggie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 22, 2009]
    did you pick up anything of interest?
    #27
  29. Good 2 B A Gooner
    Offline

    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 23, 2009]
    As i recently bought my car from a specialist and still have 6 months warranty for engine and gearbox - Do you think this would be covered by engine/gearbox?! :think:

    I'm really p*ssed off about it, my old A3 never put a foot wrong in 5 years...
    After xmas i'm trading it in for a 06/56 one!
    #28
  30. Wrath
    Offline

    Wrath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    40
    [Nov 23, 2009]
    I am amazed that there hasn't been a recall, after all it's a serious issue when it hits. It would be nice to know if it's possible to push Audi/dealer into doing it under warranty, if so, how much do you have to push?
    #29
  31. Good 2 B A Gooner
    Offline

    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 23, 2009]
    The only way to get help Nath, would be for all of us from the forum to complain to watchdog and then comply a joint writ again Audi in the small claims court.:asskicking:

    Perhaps we should start a thread for people to email watchdog. After all they got Audi to change all the TT driver pods that failed!

    [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]I'm sh*ttin it that my car's going to go up the swan... The last thing i need is to pay for that - That's why i'd rather chop it in, but that means spending more money![/FONT]




    Gary.
    #30
  32. Mags
    Offline

    Mags Have you seen my keys?

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 23, 2009]
    Well I went down to East Grinstead on Friday, for a follow up eye appointment.

    I had this weird vibration occurring in a cyclical manner, so I decided to take it to my guy on Saturday to have it checked out.

    Goes out to start the car up Saturday morning and I hear a rattly chain noise coming from the engine. :ohmy:
    So I had to take it there and leave it with him, not heard anything yet, but it's not looking good. :3sadwalk:

    I'll let you guys know what happens.
    #31
  33. Wrath
    Offline

    Wrath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    40
    [Nov 23, 2009]
    Hmmmm. My Audi is still under warranty so I'm going to try and tackle this afresh.

    Has or can anyone get anything from Audi/dealer/Elsa stating the issue as so far we only seem to have verbal information?

    Do we know rough numbers of the BLB engine code and whether Skoda/Seat/VW people are in exactly the same boat i.e. S/S/VW don't want to know?

    I'm going to contact my dealer tomorrow and start quizzing them. I think anyone that has a vehicle under warranty needs to, at the very least, write a letter so you have some proof that you started making noises during the warranty period.

    However, there are not many stories on the Internet and the guy on the "other forum" didn't seem too concerned.

    Anyway, I will see what I find out and report back. I certainly don't want my engine to die because of some wonky parts.
    #32
  34. weggie
    Offline

    weggie Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 24, 2009]
    OK guys, sorry for not being on recently. I have not heard from Audi about my goodwill application, but even if I get something, it will no doubt be small %, and it may be even cheaper going to an indi and not using Audi or their goodwill. So I am kind of up for a fight in small claims with them.
    I would base this on fact that if you ask Audi to replace the broken plastic (50 p piece if shiiite design), they will not do it. The cannot give any warranty!!, so will only do the costly conversion. So if this is not admitting that it is a design fault, then I do not know what is.
    As for your self guys, even if you did not have a ratty engine just now, I would guess you are not comfortable driving this model of car when you know that if the chain belt goes, the engine will be fucked, and will right off car!!. So why should WE, the customer, have to own an Audi car under these circumstances, Surely we bought one thinking it would last for years, not 70 to 90K miles before we potentially need a 2 - 3 K repair!!!!.
    If I were you, I would find out if you have this chain So. call Audi, give them you engine number, or number in your service manual, and find out what you have!
    If under warranty, I would suggest you ask them to convert now, or if not insist upon an extended warranty to deal with a potential future problem, if and when a "rattly engine sound occurs!!.
    I am also up for a thread to get support so let me know where it is AND I will add my support. I wonder how you prepare a survey like the one below?
    PS, if you want to support me in my own little campaign, I would welcome it. I may have to go to small clams court, so I could be a test case!
    PS also check out this thread, it has allot of info from Passat Tdi (same engine) on same problem, check out the people affected, it seems as if it is about 3 to 7% IMO.
    http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=202297&highlight=balance+chain
    Why don't we all keep reading up on this issue and post all relevant threads on this one. This could be a start to collating data.
    #33
  35. Mags
    Offline

    Mags Have you seen my keys?

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 26, 2009]
    Well my engines coming out tomorrow, not going to have the conversion done, as I'm selling it when it's all back together.
    He's going to fit a new clutch and timing belt whilst it's out.
    I'll let you know what the cost is at the end.

    First Audi, can't say it'll be my last, but I feel a little peeved atm, so I'll hold judgement on that.

    Not sure what car I'm going for next, it took so long to find this one, I may just start biking to work...... :banghead:
    #34
  36. Good 2 B A Gooner
    Offline

    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 27, 2009]
    [FONT=&quot]What's the mileage on your car mate?

    Did the clutch go – symptoms, can you let me know how much the clutch was.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Thanks,[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Gary.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    P.S.

    These guys are very good; http://www.tcgarage.com/
    I had an A3 that went in to them. I'd been told i needed a new lambda sensor as i had an engine management light on - They quoted me £300 all in, then he rang me to say i didn't need it... Just a good service would fix it! [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Top guys, very honest - though it's hard to get hold of them![/FONT]
    #35
  37. Mags
    Offline

    Mags Have you seen my keys?

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 28, 2009]
    Mileage is 100k.

    Not had any issues with the clutch tbh, just a little shudder now and then when starting off.
    I'm looking at replacing it, as the engine will be out so seems like the best time.

    If it has lots of life left on it when viewed, I'll leave it in, but if I do change it, I'll be sure to let you know the cost.

    I have been trying to source an uprated version, but no luck so far.
    #36
  38. Mags
    Offline

    Mags Have you seen my keys?

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Nov 30, 2009]
    Well mine has failed and by the looks of the thing, it was due to fail completely at any time.

    My clutch is also very worn, so I'm having the done at the same time.

    One thing my mate pointed out, was the timing.
    Seems that when they replaced the timing belt, they didn't time the engine correctly, so what I thought was a normal lumpy feeling 2.0TDi engine, wasn't being hepled at all.
    Plus it was Audi that replaced the bloody thing on it's 80K service. :faint:

    Anyway, replacing the chain, tensioner and sprocket, although the main sprocket looks fine. New timing belt, oil seal and clutch.

    I'll let you know the cost.

    Here's some pics.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    #37
  39. Good 2 B A Gooner
    Offline

    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 1, 2009]
    @ Mags - Ok **** that looks harsh... That's not going to be cheap, i'm looking to trade mine in for an 06 reg (only had my 05 brb 6 months) - Audi are jokers though with their prices at the stealers...
    #38
  40. Mags
    Offline

    Mags Have you seen my keys?

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 2, 2009]
    A new chain tensioner and small sprocket.

    [​IMG]
    #39
  41. Good 2 B A Gooner
    Offline

    Good 2 B A Gooner Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    712
    Likes Received:
    0
    [Dec 8, 2009]
    #40

Share This Page