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2.0 TDI (BNM) engine sounding rough AFTER injector swap.

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by max69vk, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. Solz

    Solz New Member

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    Hi thanks for the reply max, i wasnt actually able o find anyone with a copy of vcds, but since the dpf has been flushed the light has come on today, the car has not been smoking but the smoke it white. Coolant level is fine, but oil level is a bit high so going to drain abit out and see what happens. Its just been 2 days since having the dof flushed and lights on again.
     
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  3. Faye Danik Powell

    Faye Danik Powell New Member

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    Hey Guys, very new to the forum and have the same problems they only changed 3 out of the four injectors so im going back to them on that really they should have done all 4? As that's what i've heard VOSA are recommending them to do. Mine has the fuel emmision light going on and off intermittently and also the glow-plug light and its going through diesel like its gone out of fashion since it was in for recall. its the 07 a3 sline 170 version. If any of you guys could help me go in armed id be much appreciated or do you think changing 3 out of 4 injectors is bad practice anyway? Faye
     
  4. max69vk

    max69vk Active Member

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    If everything else appears ok, make sure the new ECU update has been applied as it takes care of the DPF regens.

    The garage should always replace all 4 at the same time as they cant guess which one is likely to fail, 3 good & one bad still means the engine would cut out when the injector short circuits.
     
  5. max69vk

    max69vk Active Member

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    Just had an email back from my (2nd) dealer who are working to repair all the issues caused by the first one...

    Nice to see they're replacing the air filter for free (even though it was done on a service 9 months ago), & they're even getting the car polished for me due to all the grief!

    Interesting part at the begining about there readjusting a few things & 'tolerances', I'll get VCDS on it as soon as I get the car back & see what differences it has made (if any) and report back!
     
  6. Cossie_boy

    Cossie_boy Member

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    That in itself is a classic!
     
  7. kilner

    kilner New Member

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    hi

    i have a mk5 gt tdi sport ppd170 bmn

    i had the injectors changed about a month before teh official recall came around and around a week after teh recall i started geting a very bad cold start issue

    i have been back to vw and said the injectors all check out fine i went to a second vw dealer who checked the injectors and said they seem fine but he needs to remove the injectors and check the seals and also compression test and this would cost me £300+

    i have allrdy spent £200 and all i have been told is its not the injectors but ther is a problem


    ther is me and another guy with skoda that is having the same issue

    this is my car only happens after the car has stood for around 8 hours

    my car has also had teh dpf delete and remap and egr delete new intake manifold and gasket new turbo cleaned all the intake pipes breather pipe disconected to stop oil goin in the intake




    and this is the skoda




    this is a graph of my injector stabalisation on startup

    [​IMG]





    i am booked in at vw again tomorow and am now talking with the manager and also vw uk and have a case but i stil lfeel i will be fobbed off

    all they say is they have done 100's of cars and they neva had a problem with the injectors
     
    #126 kilner, Oct 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  8. max69vk

    max69vk Active Member

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    Where did you get the above graph from, do you have VCDS?

    If so it's probably better just looking at the idle stabilization values as the engine runs & see if one is reading further out than the others rather than trying to graph it.

    Also check your tension value (when the engine is warm) - it should be 0 degrees but it gets disturbed when the rocker assembly & injectors are moved, & the dealers are nigh on useless on either what it is or how to adjust it.

    Is that 2nd video Silvers VRS off Briskoda? Been talking to him about these isues for months & he ended up with 2 sets of injectors, new turbo etc. Maybe not best to compare against his issues for your sanity sake, at least not for the moment.
     
  9. Sidhu88

    Sidhu88 Active Member

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    U say u had ur injectors replaced, was this before or after ur remap? In most cases they dont do it but in some cases they update the ECU software which may overwrite ur remap software for the DPF/egr delete. I was gonna say when initially watching that video to check ur egr valve but if uve already done it then theres no point. I had very similar if not identical start up issues with mine but after blanking my egr its been fine.
     
    #128 Sidhu88, Oct 3, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2014
  10. kilner

    kilner New Member

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    yes i have vcds this is how i got the graph

    i can use my mouse cursor and highlight the graph lines to show what the injector stablisation is at that time


    the car is now back in vw and they our now removing the injectors and goin to check the seats and seals


    i have had my car checked twice in the last two week and this morning was the worst the car has ever started it normally fires on first turn of the key but today i had to hold the key on longer and it strugled i was logging with vcds at the time


    at the time of the bad start and rough running as you can see on the graph at the same point they are reading
    pot 1 -4.31
    pot 2 -3.58
    pot 3 +3.89
    pot 4 +4.00

    after i rev the engine it starts to run fine and is fine for the rest of the day untill left for around 8 hours
    after the rev these are the logs
    pot 1 -0.38
    pot 2 -0.73
    pot 3 +0.63
    pot 4 +0.48

    then after a short drive and left to idle for 30 seconds these are the avrage results
    pot 1 -0.15
    pot 2 -0.66
    pot 3 +0.13
    pot 4 +0.69

    my timing fluctates from 1.84 to 2.23 my timing belt was changed around 500 miles ago but this was hapening with the old timing belt that was around -0.73 torsion value

    the car was remaped before the recall and all was fine about 3 days after the recall i started to get symptoms this was around 5k milles ago and they were done last november

    you may ask why i hav left it so long but i have had a hell of a year with lets just say family deaths moving house and also father in prision :( things are getin beter now and not as much on my mind so now im trying to fix the car
     
  11. kilner

    kilner New Member

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    this is the cold start this morning

    [​IMG]



    this is a snipit from a 10 min drive the injectors are 0.00 whilst driving but with clutch in the idle injection starts

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Cossie_boy

    Cossie_boy Member

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    Max, just read all of this again, at the start you mentioned it sounding more rattely, i noticed getting it back today that when mine is hesitating and not running so well im sure it sounds very top endy if you know what I mean? like tappets in a petrol when cold

    Completely racking my brains as to what the hell is going on with mine!
     
  13. max69vk

    max69vk Active Member

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    Join the club!

    I'm know that Audi have revised their clearances for the injector rocker clearances (which I believe were increased) so I'm wondering if that may have assisted in increasing the tappety sound.
     
  14. max69vk

    max69vk Active Member

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    Well the car is booked in (again), twelth or thirteenth time now! Still got an annoying resonance thats vibrating through the car at 1400rpm & disappearing again above 1600rpm. Feckin' annoying! :(
     
  15. Cossie_boy

    Cossie_boy Member

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    Im at half your stage mate, lol, and this is the final time

    Quite good though for you that since audi fooked it up in the first place its not costing you!

    Once fixed you should go for the time, stress and agravation card!
     
  16. mark_35509

    mark_35509 New Member

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    Hi everyone. I had the injector recall done on our Audi A3 2.0 170 in August. Since then we are experiencing jerky characteristics and the DPF light has been on and off 6 times in 6 weeks. Prior to the recall work we had never seen this warning light before. I took the car back to the Audi dealer who did the work twice and they say thay the DPF is at the end of its life and it is nothing to do with the recall work on the injectors. I was also told that if I return to the dealership again I will be charged for an investigation work!! There was nothing wrong with the car before the recall and now I don't trust it!
    Has anyone actually managed to get their car 100% sorted at no cost to the self after experiencing problems post recall?

    I am currently talking with Audi UK and now the dealer again.
     
  17. Jonathaan

    Jonathaan Quattro

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    I took my A3 2.0 TDi 170 in last Friday (9th Nov) of which got back That evening and returned home, Saturday morning, late morning as was a heavy sesh on Friday :puke2:i started my car to find a engine light on....

    Rung Audi for them to pass me pillar to post as everybody had gone home. I was told if i am concerned with the problem to ring my breakdown company. I said excuse me love "Concerned" obviously i am "Concerned" i have owned the car 9days, and then after You replacing something on my car i have a engine light on - these dont just come on for the sake of it.

    So after me expressing my "Concerns" i was told i would be rung on Monday - So i rung my AA break down and they had no tech operators i could talk to on the phone so sent a van out. Was very pleased with the service with AA as he came within 20mins of being on the phone.

    Plugged his comp and he said nothing was showing :S so turned car on and off, light still on but no fault :/ so he did something on his "computerthigymajiggy" and the light went off.

    I thought great can ring Audi and tell them AA sorted it..... Not that simple, Monday morning jumped in car to go to work and it was their again :(.

    Rung Audi :blahblah1: and explained i have no annual leave left from work, oh thats okay sir we can give you a hire car, i thought great stuff :idea: and then was punched in the face, "Can you confirm you are between the ages of 21-80"

    And with me being 19, i was declined a hire car :wtf: So collecting from work 2morow.

    Will let you know what they have to say.
     
  18. Solz

    Solz New Member

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    Mark, best option is take your car to a local garage even a audi specialist and check if they have seated your injectors properly, as they tend to make a mess of seating them properly also is your car smoking? And check your engine oil level.
    ive spent nearly £2000 on my car after recall and car still in a mess, ive had a head recon, injectors changed twice, dpf flushed out twice, dpf removed, another one injector replaced and now surprise turbo is making noise. First thing to do check the tolerance of the injectors and if their out they needed to be seated properly. And then get your dpf flushed out manually not by regeneration. N hopefully should solve the problem but after all that if the dpf still comes on get it removed thats the best thng i ever did with my car. Unicorn motordevelopments reliable and cheaper than others.
     
  19. Cossie_boy

    Cossie_boy Member

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    Max, all sorted now? If you didnt see my other post mine went back and got most of my money back, hands washed!
     
  20. mk2vr6

    mk2vr6 Member

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    Bring a thread back from the dead...

    Any updates on the problems after injector swaps. Did anyone get to the bottom of this?

    Thanks
     
  21. max69vk

    max69vk Active Member

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    Not as such, the problem is that as the injector swap is actually a lot more of a specialist job than Audi (or the whole VAG group) want to admit, & letting your average spanner monkey loose to do the job within a very restricted time frame can lead to a whole host of issues.

    When the injectors are fitted they require new seals & clamping bolts to be aligned properly so the seals don't distort. If not done properly high pressure fuel leaks into the oil ruining the viscosity & enabling cylinder blow by, which makes the problem even worse. Eventually this will cause excessive pressure in the crankcase, dump filthy fuel into the cylinders & DPF ruining them as well as taking out the turbo due to inadequate lubrication.

    Further on from this even if the injectors are fitted properly, the injector clearances need to be set properly, this can only be done by using a series of specialist tools including dial gauges & VCDS... VAG group doesn't have VCDS & they're own diagnostic equipment is incapable of measuring the critical adjustment, this was confirmed to me by the head of Audi UK technical when I had meetings with them & the garage involved with repairing my car at the time actually then invested in VCDS to be able to do this properly.

    If the injector clearance is not fully reset after doing the injector swap it can lead to the injector operational timing being out which causes rough running. Whilst the ECU actually controls the injector flow & injection time length etc, it is the clearance which effectively (in layman terms) turn the injectors on & off to allow the ECU to then make its injection calculations.

    And this is just the start of what could then be causing problems... Dirty fuel = blocked fuels filters = poor performance etc etc. the list goes on.
     
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  23. mk2vr6

    mk2vr6 Member

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    I've read this thread from the start and you make some very observant points. I appreciate the reply now too.

    I wonder if VAG actually replace the stretch bolts. On my old A6 I had the 2.0 tdi head rebuilt and when putting it back together made sure I used new bolts for the rocker assembly and the injector clamps too, as they are both one time use stretch bolts (or cheese head as VAG call them).

    I think like you say they are very sensitive bits of kit. And need both rocker clearance and Torsion value setting up, However, the dealers do not realise this.
     
  24. mk2vr6

    mk2vr6 Member

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    So realistically, anyone reading this with similar symptoms should in order:

    Check Rocker to Injector Plunger Clearance.

    And also check Torsion Value in Vagcom and adjust as close as to 0.0KW as possible.
     
  25. mk2vr6

    mk2vr6 Member

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    Just thinking about this: Do the 170bhp Piezo injectors with the twin bolt fastening have a different process of adjusting the rocker arms compared to the single clamp injectors that are backed off 180°?
     
  26. mk2vr6

    mk2vr6 Member

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    Any input anyone?

    This problem has been around since late 2011. Someone must have a definitive fix for the bodge-job the VAG group called a recall.
     

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