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2.0 140 cv Engine SERIOUS Issues

Discussion in 'A3/S3/Sportback (8P Chassis)' started by amgad, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. amgad
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    amgad Member

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    Ok, what I have read so far in Spain and need confirmation urgently from you guys. Too many of these are happening in 2004-2005-2006 models

    1 - Dual mass flywheel and clutch Recall issues - Engine vibrations are cyclick and are felt as a vibration of the body of the car (shaking), also fixed with an ECU reprogramming.

    2 - Serious overhead problems - Coolant consumption, low level, white smoke after cold hard starts - Engine overhead replacement as a fix.

    3 - Hard cold start - Hard start for 4-5 seconds cranking and then dies, starts after sevral tries when left outside overnight in cold weather. NO FIX YET, includes cars produced in Sept-Oct-Nov 2006, yes thats cars with weeks.

    Please, need as much info and confirmation about these issues as I have just bought and new Audi A3 Sportback with a 2.0 140 cv engine.
    #1
  2. wilko
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    wilko Top Gear

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    Any chance that the vibrations are from a standing start and only when the engine is cold?? I have this but I have yet been able to prove it to the dealer. It feels like the wheels are spinning but over a bumpy road. Doing my head in now...
    #2
  3. synthdood
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    synthdood Member

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    2.0 140 cv ???? What does cv stand for? I am guessing you are refering to the 140 hp TDI engine?
    #3
  4. cdb2
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    cdb2 Member

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    Please confirm exatcly what engine mate. 2.0 FSi or petrol or 2.0 TDi diesel.

    Several of us have had high coolant consumption.
    #4
  5. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Chevaux.
    French for horses.
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  6. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    I didn't heard anything but VAG diesels are quoted as one of the best you can buy.... Strange all those issues... I'm assuming it is the diesel with 140hp.
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  7. amgad
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    amgad Member

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    Yes so did I but apparently they are not as reliable as one should think.

    The engine I am refering to is the 2.0 TDI 140 hp or CV (the units are the same).

    It is really worring because as far as I know this engine is only having problems mounted to an A3 8P... but I must say that these are all 2004/2005/ and early 2006 models.

    wheather this has been fixed in latest production units... i dont know.

    But this is why I am refering to you... so give me some feedback
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  8. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    Number 2 was apparently a manufacturing defect which affected the cylinder heads on early units and can result in a cracked head and coolant loss in extreme cases. This happened to me and the head was replaced under warranty but the dealer said they believed the problem had been cured for quite a while now and all the ones they'd seen with the problem had been early models.
    #8
  9. amgad
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    amgad Member

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    Thats a relief. I understand that issue number 1 has had a recall on around 70.000 units, although a friend at work has had his 2005 passat reflashed (ECU).

    Which leave issue numbre 3... any ideas on that one?
    #9
  10. TDI-line
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    TDI-line Uber Post Whore

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    I had my flywheel changed on my 2.00 TDI golf.

    Take it to your dealer to check there computer system if there is a recall on your model, don't wait until it's servicing time.
    #10
  11. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing which sounds similar is that quite a few 170PS TDI owners (i.e. the new model) have had problems with the glow plug system leading to starting issues. Apparently this is a known issue but I don't know whether it's been solved yet, I think Audi are waiting for parts to retrofit onto existing cars. I'll let you know if the problem develops on my new TDI 170.

    I've not heard of this issue affecting the 140 unit however, so either it has and I'm unaware of it, or the issue you mention is a different one, or someone has got confused somewhere and attributed this fault to the 140.
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  12. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    By whom ?
    Every test I read says they fall well behind the opposition.
    My test drives of other diesels (Honda,BMW,Alfa/Saab/Vauxhall,Ford) back this up.
    They're all better diesels.
    Much quieter,for starters.
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  13. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    In your opinion. I've read quite a few tests which have raved about VAG diesel engines, either you haven't read many reviews or have a rather selective memory. Yes, VAG's PD engines are noisier than the latest common rail units but that's just a facet of the technology. Let us not forget that VAG was instrumental in pioneering modern diesels with the PD technology, long before the current crop of common rails came along. At the time, the PD technology was the best available but now others have gone the common rail route, the technology of which has overtaken PD. Audi have acknowledged this and will be switching to common rail for their future engines but they still have a huge investment in research and tooling for the "older" PD tech and it's not reasonable to expect them to just ditch it overnight. To their credit, they are trying to eek as much performance and refinement out of the technology as they can, as can be witnessed in the new 170PS 2.0 unit which is far more refined than the 140 and also happens to be the most powerful production 2L diesel on the market, if I'm not mistaken.

    Frankly, you've gained such a repuation as an Audi/VAG hater on this forum that I think your opinions are viewed as highly biased by most people here. I'm certainly past caring what you think. I don't dispute that you're entitled to your opinion but lately you seem to be bordering on trolling, making known your disdain for all things Audi at every conceivable opportunity and questioning the sanity of anyone who dares to buy one.

    Personally I can't wait until you make the switch to a Beemer so we don't have to put up with it any more but I have a feeling you'll continue to troll in here :rolleyes: Didn't anyone ever tell you that if you don't have anything constructive to say you shouldn't say anything?
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  14. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    It's not JUST my opinion.
    I've read plenty of tests.
    You'd have to go back a few years to find one that raves about the VAG diesels.
    All the modern tests I've read state that the VAG units feel unrefined and lacking compared with the competition.

    Oh,BTW,the 2.0tdi unit isn't the most powerful 2litre diesel on the market.
    BMW's Alpina 320D3 puts out 200bhp,but you'll probably try and reverse out of that one by saying that it's not a volume production model...

    beep beep beep beep....
    #14
  15. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    I never said it was, you inserted the word "just", not I
    Rubbish, Diesel Car magazine reviewed the 170PS unit in the A3 Sportback, Skoda Octavia and the Seat Leon and said it was excellent.
    Fair enough
    If you actually bothered to stop and read what I wrote, you'll notice I said if I'm not mistaken which was deliberately stated as I wasn't 100% sure. Fair enough, I was wrong. Trust you to sieze the opportunity to spout yet more sanctimonious vitriol. I rest my case :rolleyes:
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  16. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    In isolation,one could easily be forgiven for thinking the VAG unit is fine.
    As soon as you jump in the competition though,you see it's shortcomings.
    Not in performance,but in refinement (noise and vibration).

    I am,of course,speaking about the 140bhp unit though,which the thread is about.

    I've no experience of the 170bhp unit,but the general consensus seems to be there is little improvement.
    Some,but not a quantum leap.
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  17. mfspen
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    mfspen Member

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    I read on one site that VAG are working on a new 1.9 litre common rail unit, mainly to meet the tough new emissions regulations that will be introduced in 2007 in US/Canada.

    One would hope they will try and make it as refined as the current BMW benchmark for diesels.
    #17
  18. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    No you're not. You responded to a newbiecrg's comment "VAG diesels are quoted as one of the best you can buy" with the words "Every test I read says they fall well behind the opposition." Note his use of the words "VAG diesels" and your use of the word "they". To now claim you were referring only to the 140PS unit simply because that was the subject of the OP is not credible. Who's "reversing" now? Beep, beep, beep ;)

    A couple more reviews I found, admittedly of the 170 unit.

    From Evo:

    "And that 170bhp TDI? Versus the 140, it shaves 1.1sec from the 0-62mph time and feels very lusty, at the cost of some combustion percussion. It's particularly pleasing with the double-clutch DSG sequential transmission, a six-speeder like the manuals, although the DSG novelty might wear off on people like us."

    From AutoCar:

    "The new engine is based on the 138bhp turbodiesel that already accounts for a quarter of Altea sales, but benefits from revised turbocharger geometry, a new intake system, particulate filter and, most notably, piezo-electric fuel injection, which helps with the powerband.

    Take sixth gear acceleration from one of the toll stations on our test route, for example: initial uptake, 1000-1500rpm, is sluggish, but then it’s - properly - into its stride, 500rpm sooner than we’ve become used to. If we’d tried the same with the 138bhp engine, we’d still be there now, waiting for the trademark whoosh at 2000rpm.

    There’s no disadvantage at the higher end, either. Peak power arrives at 4200rpm and, during the preceding 1000rpm, you’ll notice the engine doing its best work. Pin pedal to carpet and it revs reasonably freely all the way to 5000, though there is no particular benefit from exceeding the low fours.

    And shhh, I think it’s quieter, too. In fact, I’m certain it is under load below 3000rpm. When idling or revving its merry head off, it would still be shamed by any given petrol unit, but at a cruise, it remains, as is typical nowadays, imperceptible.

    So, an engine with an output and nature, if not aural quality, fit for a sporty car."

    As I said, it's generally accepted that the VAG units are harsher and "less smooth" than their common rail counterparts and the importance of this in the context of the whole package will obviously vary from customer to customer but they're far from the "useless heaps of ****" you'd have us believe.
    #18
  19. Amchlolor
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    Amchlolor Active Member

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    Quote marks,no less !
    Care to point out where I've said the VAG units are "useless heaps of ****" ?
    As far as I can remember,I've only ever said they're far less refined than the competition and,as can be seen from the varying oil consumptions reported on here,that their build quality may be dubious too.

    Simple statements of fact.
    Not baseless slagging off at all.
    #19
  20. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    The quote marks were intended to denote that you'd inferred that, not that you'd said it directly. The quotes were possibly not the best way of denoting this but I didn't intend to put words in your mouth, sorry.

    As for only ever claiming they were less refined or less well constructed than the competition, you said in this very thread that the engines you'd sampled from Honda, BMW, Alfa, Saab, Vauxhall & Ford were "all better diesels" which is a rather sweeping statement.

    "Better" is a very subjective term and just because the VAG units are less refined than the competition doesn't necessarily make the others "better". As I said before, the comparative lack of refinement needs to be considered in the context of the whole package, which includes power, torque, economy, response and all the other attributes that make up an engine. Whilst you may well consider refinement to be the overriding factor when assessing an engine, many others will not.

    Personally, I'm happy to concede that the VAG units are harsher than those from BMW or Ford (I have no direct experience of any current units from any of the other manufacturers you listed and so won't comment) but in all other ways I love their engines and think they're easily the equal of any equivalent unit from a competing manufacturer. Basically, the pros outweight the cons, for me at least.
    #20
  21. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    Who ever says VAG diesels are beyhond opposition doesn't understand a lot about recent diesel engines or does not want to accept the obvious.

    There are another excellent engines like BMW diesels but VAGs, even without common rail, are able to deliver very good performance and fuel consumption. Very good engines indeed. 3.0 TDI 233ps, 4.2 TDI 326ps. Here is the part where you can say that 335d biturbo is a lot better than 3.0TDI, go on!

    Off course VAG is not leading diesel technology or research, after all only beat all the petrol engines in Le Mans... what do they know about diesel...

    Anyway, each one has their own opinion... I don't even like diesels or have a VAG diesel so for sure unbiased opinion.

    Pedro
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  22. amgad
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    amgad Member

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    Great, so now that we have had a little fun with a friendly debate on diesel technology... I am still stuck with the uncertainty of a serious problem.

    I am not so much worried about refinemente, power, economy or anything else, but what does worry me is to spend 30.000 € in a car that will break down with a serious mechanical property in less than 6 months of use.

    Any more experiences or knowledge about these problems?

    Thanks, and piece to "ya'll"
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  23. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    For my part I'm sorry the off topic.

    As far your problem is concerned if you have that problem in the first 6 months of use you should not worry as you will be fully covered by manufacturers warranty. The problem is after 2 years of ownership!

    Pedro
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  24. Vertigo1
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    Vertigo1 Well-Known Member

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    Any new car can break down. Yes some are more likely to do it than others but there's no way to predict. That's what the warranty is for.
    #24
  25. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    I'm positive you won't have big problems. Some engines might have issues but most of the 140cv diesels are running without problems. Would be a good idea to check with your dealer if your engine needs recall and have that request in writing confirming that you asked for that during warranty period because if it breaks down after the warranty exprires at least you will have some proof that you tried to fix it. If it is a manufacturer problem than, even after warranty expires they should cover it.
    #25
  26. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member

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    amgad - to help to put your mind at rest a little. My A3 is a 2.0TDI-140 and I have owned it since July 2004 and I've not had any problems at all. I have done 34,000 miles so far. I am very pleased with it and I have just ordered a new A3 2.0TDI but this time I am going for the 170bhp version.
    #26
  27. amgad
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    amgad Member

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    Yes so much is true, but a random breakdown is more than acceptable.

    Things get a little suspicious when you have 35 people (posted in one single forum in spain) with the same car, same engine, within a two year period of manufacturing all with the same problem, reported to official dealers and AUDI still claims they have no knowledge of the problem or what is causing it.

    A warranty only gets you your money back, that... nothing spent (if you are lucky enough to fall withing the rediculus 2 year plan), but this is a car... possibly the second most important investment a family makes after purchasing a house, and it just can't fail.
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  28. newbiecrg
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    newbiecrg windsurfer

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    I understand your worries and concerns a car costs a lot of money and should not fail. 35 users had that problem, it might be an issue you should be concerned about but don't loose your sleep at night because of that. If the problem was that serious you would found it in all car magazines and I haven't seen that.
    Mercedes had problems with the E-class to levels you probably don't realise (steel quality of chassis and very bad paint quality, not to mention electronics...) But check with your dealer if a recall is needed, if not take one day at a time and smile!

    Pedro
    #28
  29. amgad
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    amgad Member

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    Ok, and although this might sound silly, I dont actually have the car yet, its been ordered and will get it around mid january. Well let you know as it goes. For the moment, there have been some VW units failing too...
    #29
  30. amgad
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    amgad Member

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    I have had the car now for a month 2600 km, and ever since 2 weeks old and 1600 km I have the starting issue described above.

    Anyone have this issue?
    #30
  31. h5djr
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    h5djr Well-Known Member

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    I have just changed my car from a 2.0TDI-140 to a 2.0TDI-170. I had my 140 for nearly 3 years and 36,000 miles and it never ever failed to start and run normally.
    #31
  32. stevehsv868
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    stevehsv868 Unofficial Audi UK Endurance Test Driver

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    my mums 2004 54 reg pd 140 dsg A3 s line , has had knocking from the rear suspension , moddified dampers were the fix, cold starting problems , new starter motor was the fix.

    my 2006 a3 silne DSG has has no problems up till yet
    #32

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