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Discussion in 'A4/A4 cabriolet/S4 forum(B6 chassis)' started by quattrojames, Jan 31, 2011.
thats what i just did lol and i cant see one that says 60L mate all 66 or 70
I must've miss read it. Just looked on parkers. I don't trust them though as according to parkers I'm missing 6 valves.
iv been made to look a fool on here more than once as iv said some thing i read in parkers lol and i dont need any help looking stupid ;-) not saying you look like a fool mate just so you no lol
According to my Audi literature its 66 and 70 litres for quattro and fwd respectively. Not sure about the Cabby, I don't have a figure for that.
Aragorn has a B5 Simon which may be different I don't know.
I'm happy with being a fool. Good to know though.
oh right yeah probly is as the tanks have been geting bigger with newer cars my older ones have always been 60L i think some where just 55L as well
Lmfao about the 6 missing valves! Maybe that explains the poor mpg??
Parkers is good, but you do have to be careful!
my daily driver( a 26 tonne lorry mounted suction excavator) is avaraging 3.2 miles to the gallon! supping its £430 tank of diesel every 2 days 1 so i find my 2.5 tdi slightly more frugal! covering on avarage 200 miles every 2 days in my daf 360hp wagon im slowly warming the planet all by myself! and my company pays me to do it! ha ha! i do recycle my food wrappers in order to reduce my carbon footprint! lol
No mate, matter of fact is i fill to the brim, drive on then fill to the brim again when the fuel light comes on again(i also thrown a few litres of petrol in the tank once for good measure !). I might be biased but the v6 tdi i am talking about had lowered compression (thicker head gaskets) and 2 brand new cylinder heads fitted 9k miles ago(all work done by myself). The v6 is nothing to drive like the pd engine wich is either on or off boost. The v6 actually has torque to get-it going without having to rely on the turbo like the PD lumps. I'll post a picture of the petrol slips on wich i noted the mileage as i traveled, the DIS is missing pixels and i do the maths. I do not bullshit nobody but the v6 is a great engine when it runs right. As with regards of tunned tdi's, in Slovakia there's a twin turbocharged v6 tdi with garrett blowers from 2.2dti opel vectra wich runs 400 bhp in drag form and 350 as a reliable daily drive. With 5-600 Nm of torque from tick-over, it might not be pleasant to drive but definately not slouch. Anytime you drive down to london, give me a ring and i'll take-you for a drive in me a4 quattro- few chaps here been in it and can wouch its not slouch yet it still returns 30Mpg in town. Please do not confuse it with the a6 wich i use for towing, i have 3 audi quattro's: w reg a6 tdi quattro, b5 audi a4 tdi quattro and allroad tdi quattro (this is a thirsty beast but also weighs 2 tonnes !) wich i bought to replace the a6 tdi quattro sport (with the trailer on and the Twin ABT Sportsline exhaust, the tailpipes were only 2" off the ground when on tow wich isnt practical in my book hence getting the allroad)...
Chris- 077 899 12128.
can safly say you love your audis adamss24 ;-)
I buy cars with damaged engines and fix them then pass them on... Sometimes i get my hands full (missus isnt pleased too much when i spend too much on a "new car"). Me daily is the '98 v6 tdi quattro b5, the most reliable car i ever had-bar a c4 audi a6 2.5 tdi (in line 5 cylinders) auto wich i owned for 5 years and travelled 60k in it without bother, sold it to a polish chap from work when i bought my first v6 tdi quattro. Back in the day(2000) the road tax discs were made on a colour printer (!) and i never had Mot or valid insurance, been all over europe (spain,germany,france,italy,austria,etc.) in it though and i did not even held a genuine passport !
so you no a bit about the engines then ;-)
I'm with Chris again and it is no bullshit about the mpg I've got to grips with mine now a4 v6 tdi avant quattro auto and on a run once upto temp it will do as high as 46 mpg. now I will be updating this as I'm planning a surf trip soon so will be more postage as and when but driving locally I can still get 30-32 mpg with a little enthusiastic driving thrown in to so if you haven't driven one then you won't no how bloody good they really are I love driving mine and another thing is you have to drive a diesel totally different to a petrol car they don't rev as high so you have to change up quicker I think a 2.5 v6 tdi would smash a 2.4 v6 petrol even in standard form upto about a ton and I recon a 190 bhp 1.8 t would get left to with the right person behind the wheel
Yeah man, i've been tinkering with engines since i was 5, me old man is a panel beater- pity he did not teach me the trade !
This is what i keep telling people ! They would not fit ASR or ESP to a diesel if the engine could not break traction for once...The newer the cars the lardier they get and they dont feel fast but with the v6 they are smooth... Why i like the b5 is the chassys is short and the v6 tdi can pull-it nicely allong. The 2.4 is pants, even 2.8 quattro has trouble keeping with the v6 tdi up to 100 Mph. After that the petrol lump will be better due to gearing and higher revs. Diesels are not built for drag racing- gearing is too low- but on real world they can stretch their legs and give petrol engines (of comparable displacement) a good run for their money !
I agree - in a practical situation, the 40-60, 50-70, and 60-80mph times are impressive - and all without fuss and bother. Wunderbar!!
For the fuel tank confusion, yes i have a B5 and they only have 60L tanks in quattro form!
While i agree, the v6 tdi would mince most n/a v6 petrols, a turbo petrol is a different story.
In gear times may be nice, but they dont make a fast car, just a lazy one. Folk bleat on about the torque, but then the gearing is longer than a petrol anyway, which dilutes the torque at the wheels.
A quick look at the manufacturers listed times for a B5 150hp 2.5 TDI Quattro gives 0-80kph as 6.4s and 0-100kph as 9.6s, with a calculated 80-100kph time of 3.2secs
a B5 150hp 1.8T Quattro, gives 0-80kph as 5.9s and 0-100kph as 8.7s, and a calculated 80-100kph of 2.8s. While i dont dispute that at 70mph in top gear, the TDi is probably going to accellerate better, i dont accept they are faster when both cars are being driven properly. If your trying to beat someone in a "race" you dont sit in top gear and just mash the foot down, because then you'll lose.
Now clearly some of you have tuned tdi's, so will be faster, but then you'd need to be comparing it against a tuned 1.8T as well. A simple remap on both engines takes them both to around the same 200hp figure, and i'd imagine the petrol will likely still be faster.
What we need are some quarter mile times!
Please look on YouTube and look at the lupo diesel from profituning
Now ok the lupo looses at the end but look at it holding it's own with alot more exotic metal
And yeah it's well tuned and got 4x4 but just look at it diesel is the new petrol I think if you wanna see big power
Look at the banks sidewinder on YouTube
You're looking at the wrong figures mate ! I have the genuine factory suplement for the v6 tdi (came in me car's folder) and it is titled "Technical modification". In this the "performance" for the v6 tdi quattro avant wich i have is 8.3 sec. to 100km... The FWD avant is 9.2 sec. to 100km/h. The stock car has a max. torque of 310nm from 1500-3200 rpm. If you trow a PSI chip in the ecuation it goes to 380Nm and 190 Bhp. I have the AMD printout of me car from when i first took-it on a rolling road...Also the b5 ECU and box are much much better than the later 180Bhp models as they really feel "sporty"/ For example, i can let-off the clutch from 4k on me b5 quattro and the car will lurch forward as a scalded cat, on the a6 quattro it will just stall. Also the way the b5 accelerates is more raw the a6 is just a wad of torque from 1500 rpm on. Also the diesels are not built for drag racing, unless you wanna start in 2nd wich will rip the clutch apart. The 1.8T can be made to shift no doubt about it, been in Don a3 quattro and its mental but it also spent a good few grand just sorting the engine. The v6 has not soo many off the shelf parts as the 1.8T but with a bit of know how and improvising the 3.0Tdi turbo drops in ! There are not bigger VNT turbos available on the market unless you look for Holset or Hino turbos from trucks for japanese market...I would love to get my hands on a pair of Porsche VNT turbos, the ones made of titanium...would make a really nice project that !
well if your going to put vids up of tdis ;-) i love the sound of this tdi thats one of the things i miss about not having a petrol
YouTube - Audi A4 V6 2.5TDi new exhaust sounds
Here zou go, crappy phone camera pictures, hope you can read the figures well...Also the max speed figures are on the conservative side, i had it much, much faster than the 216km per hour stated there...
That is Diffas FWD avant with a slightly tweaked 150bhp engine- he is also a forum member ! Funny you said that, i have a ABT sportsline cat back dual exhaust fitted on my allroad tdi and is wisper quiet-i was very disapointed at first ! Hope Yappy(Dan) wont mind sorting a 3 inch downpipe to mate with the rest of the system. On the b5 quattro i have the cats innards removed and it makes a nice throaty noise when on boost- still civilised though ! A friend of mine Fez, also had a custom exhaust done and it was sounding like a chevy v8 engine- a bit too noisy for my liking.
i like the sound ;-) if thats just 150bph it puts it down well i think
Close to 200 Bhp now that motor...diesels have massive tuning potential just larger nozzles, remap and larger turbo will see them past the 300Bhp wilst doubling the factory torque. Is getting them mods toghether thats difficult. Lear automotive used to sell bosio race 683 nozzles, thez dont sell them anymore because customers complained of iddle shudder wich should have been adressed in the remap. Thing is there are very few chaps who know how to custom remap a diesel in Uk at the moment thats why i go abroad for a tune !
The figures quoted came streight out of my 2000 manual.
Theres no technical modification on mine presumably becuase my manual was printed after yours, ie its already included.
You've said you can remap it, and i've also said you can remap a 1.8T. You've said you can fit a big turbo, and again you can fit a big turbo to a 1.8T. You can go on and on, but at the end of the day, every mod you do to the TDI has a petrol equivalent, until you reach the limit of the fuel pump on the TDI, and then the 1.8T walks away. 350hp on a 1.8T needs a gt28rs, remap and some injectors, plus a set of rods for safety unless you feel brave. 350hp from a 2.5tdi on the other hand....
This is all going round in circles anyway, and is getting a bit pointless. My original point was that personally i dont see any point in the 2.5tdi engine. If you want performance, you buy a petrol, if you want economy you buy a 4pot derv. The 2.5 is wedged in the middle, they cost a huge amount more to buy than a petrol with some of the performance benefits, but poor economy and your living with diesel clatter and black reek. Its also spectacularly unreliable, as people on here will attest, and while the 1.8T has oil issues, those are easily mitigated by good servicing, unlike the VP44 which is in effect a time bomb that may drop a grands worth of expense in your lap at any moment.
I can do you an exhaust whenever you want Chris just give me a call 07787 524648 mate no problem
Now I no what your saying about the petrol cars they can be modded easier than a diesel to get big bhp out of em but I'm a mates garage there's a 1.8t with a cracked head between exhaust valves then my mate has just blown his 1.8 t rod out the side of the block so I can't see how you say they r any more reliable than a 2.5 v6 tdi the cam probs on the diesel is ok bad but this is due to long life oil changes to be honest nothing is going to last on long gap oil changes so we cn beg to differ but there is pros and cons in any motor I've run fiesta turbos with full zerec turbo install with gt28 rs turbo at about 375 bhp and yeah it's quick but no where near as nice to drive as my a4 diesel the same as my 200 sx
What I'm saying is you haven't driven one so you can't really comment until you have
Make a trip down to see Chris he will change your mind from what ive heard
Mine is currently on 179500 miles and going strong (touch wood)
Going to have to join in the Derv v Petrol debate;
Having driven plenty of Pd130 pool cars at work I was amazed at the performance and economy combo of this motor so had to move to diesel for next car, now the V6tdi is not a PD130 by any standard and i would hardly call it economical yet I manage 28mpg driving across town to work everyday and high 30's on a decent run, but the performance is superb.
Previous car was a 3litre v6 petrol omega with 210bhp but like all modern multivalve petrol engines the power band is so high and you have to really rev the nuts of it and race everywhere to make quick progress and then the fuel economy goes out the window (18mpg round town and 30 on a run at the best taking it very steady).
On the other hand the V6tdi is an absolute dream to drive fast from point to point, the torque just pulls you out of corners effortlessly, I must admit that the rattle in the morning is not nice but that isn't helped by 10years old and 180k. For an everyday car driven rapidly covering decent miles i just don't see the point in a petrol and wouldn't go back, but for a weekend toy then it would have to be Westfield with a petrol engine that screams to 9000rpm and doesn't care you have no torque because it only weighs 500kg
I never compared them like for like, the audi was the pioneering of tdi technology in passenger cars since earl eighties. Back then diesels were dirty,slow and lacking performance. When the technology moved on, they were a bit more rafinate but the seed was still in the brits mind. The 3.3 CR v8 engine was fitted in the a8 in the 98 and is a masterpiece smooth,refined and economical above all. They still did not sell it here though because brits were still lusting after big petrol engines and the petrol was cheap. Then the audi was the first to put a big v6 lump in their a4 and called that sport. It might not set your bum on fire but it does go well ! Now, with the v6 tdi they offered decent performance and reasonable economy in a complete package. I am not comparing 1.8TQS wich are a limited model but run off the mill tdi engined cars. From point to point you cannot beat a lazy, v6 tdi engine. The engine has soo much torque from nearly tickover and you can get in top gear without seeing 2000 rpm. This is what i call confortable. Also the c6 is only clattery for a minute in the morning but drop the CR and it goes nice and quiet whilst returning better economy but will require 1 sec. of prolonged cranking. Drive the v6 like a lunatic (all on redline) and you wont get it to drop below 25Mpg, trust me, i tried ! take+it easy on motorway and it will go high 40 s Mpg. The beauty with the diesel i no matter how tuned the engine is there will allways be more economical compared to a petrol lump. Yeah, you can go all balls out with a 1.8T but that is because there are off the shelf tuning parts developed for it. In europe you cannot get modded VP44 pumps but in the states there are modded ones able to fuel 1000Bhp 6L Cummins engines. With the right map they can be used on the tdi as well ! The bottom end will take 500 Bhp easily on a diesel and the rods are allreadz forged so no need to upgrade there. The main problem with tdi is the torque as there are not many clutches who can take 600Nm of torque from tickover. Zes, you can build triple clutches able to take the torque but that defeats the point as they cost big money ! Firad or DSS Ultime can build whatever size nozzles you want from blanks so there is no problem there. Its putting them toghether thats difficult because i dont know nobody who can write a good map wich will take all them mods into account. The v6 tdi is built very stout from factory but getting twice the factory torque and Bhp will be a challenge. I am shure you will love having a 250 Bhp-500Nm diesel engine as a daily, you wont look back for real !
I will call you friday Dan, need to sell the a6 first, just got back from Mot... the chap is picking the a6 tomorrow so i will have a few hundred notes spare of wich missus does not know ! I fricking have 2nd thoughts about selling this a6 as its such a nice drive, 183k and not a ratle or squeak or nothing + fully built engine as well ! The allroad i have is a heap compared to this but it has Bose, leather, xenons and is soo clean inside + lower mileage as well... I picked it for a song but allready spent a grand sorting it for Mot and still to go in the bodyshop for full colour codding. It will then look dope but god i hate air suspension ! Fortunately i will keep the b5 for a while as it ticks all the right boxes but i wont be able to put up with a nagging missus for long !
350 Bhp at the wheels been done with twin turbo from the opel 2.2 dti (400 Bhp in race trim, Profituning creation ...google stingray-Marek). 300Bhp only takes Gtb 2260Vk, bosio race 683 nozzles and remap all on stock bottom end and with the stock injector pump, the side intercooler are maxed out at 270 Bhp. There are sneaky limiters inside the VP44 pump so unless moddified it wont go much above that. Its no point getting the v6 above that as the new 3.0 Tdi came with 244Bhp and a better CR injection system wich has loads more potential. Still the CR has its own limitations and you cannot go above 75 Bhp per litre(for the time beeing) and the electronics wich control the emissions are not easy to defeat... We all are at the peak of modifications, electronics helped out with a cleaner burn and improved results now it looks like we need to go back to pushrod engines on carbs for power...laws of physics cannot be bent for long...
Yeah man no problem my missis is exactly the same with money and what you earn and they don't no about won't hurt them will it haha so yeah pop it over when you can I will take some measurements and start making it I've still gotta build my system what size pipe you thinking I was gonna build 2.5" maybe 2.25" with 3" tail pipes what you think of that
You can find contradictions wherever you're looking if you take stuff out of context. My old 2.0 8v Golf GTI with high-lift cams could average 12-15mpg on a tank if they were on a cold engine or stop-start: I don't slate all N/A petrol engines with having the same problem.
I never claimed any such thing: Peak on a single run of >200 miles has been around 42mpg, but that's ferrying 90yr old relatives at 65-75mph and starting with a warm engine, both of which make a good difference. My "claim" was that 33-36mpg is my normal mpg rates, not peak
Erm.. yes... if you're driving a PD (LINK) car, then that would be correct: a 115PD is PD and tuned for a narrow lump of uber-economic torque... and nothing else. A 130TDI PAssat is also a PD and also tuned for economy primarily, which is even more frustrating due to the lump of 300lb/ft torque in the middle of nothing else - even the 1.9TDI VP37 engine can feel faster due to to the wider torque delivery, despite the lower peak bhp.
Broaden your horizons: I've driven several different gens of the 1.9TDI engines in everything incl. several Golfs, a Touran through to Passats, A6's and Sharans (incl older and newer 130TDI's on the larger cars and also a PD130 in one of the Golfs): well over 10k miles in total - I can understand your frustrations with that engine and it's power delivery: but that particular setup is a tiny, tiny snapshot of what diesel is capable of.
The VP44 TDI engine in the Quattro version of the 2.5TDI is an entirely different beast: these engine have pretty wide power bands and tonnes of low-down torque: peak torque is at 1500rpm, peak power at about 4100rpm, around 225-250 lb/ft from about 1200rpm to 4200rpm.
Granted: the 1.8TQS is a very robust petrol engine and offers pretty decent economy and a lighter packaged alternative, but it's not without it's drawbacks.
I can't speak for the others in this thread, but I found the 1.8T fantastic in my A3 (150PS), but a little strained when I've driven the 163bhp fwd in an A4 and properly stretched in an A6... given that I wanted a quattro and the A4 quattro weighs much the same as the A6, I didn't really fancy it, especially since I was looking at high mileage cars.
It's certainly capable of hauling the car around fairly rapidly, but just not as effortlessly and smooth at relaxed cruising as a 300+lb/ft V6 torque-monster that gets higher fuel economy.
First receipt dated 16.07.2010 (a day before the cambelt broke !), filled up the tank with 61.56 litres) the fuel lamp just came on and had traveled 494 miles(approx. 800km). The second receipt dated 10.11.2010 (after the rebuild) filled the tank with 73.18 litres and traveled 495 miles whilst going to wigan to pick up me new allroad. The first tank was in the summer whilst going to pick up a vw passat v6 tdi estate, the 2nd one was with the cold spell and winter diesel whilst still towing a 500 kg Ifor Williams car trailer empty on the way there and loaded on the way back ! I kid you not, when i am in a hurry i drive faster than 80 Mph whilst loaded with car on tow ! I have more receipts even from when i went to France with my family...consistent 500 miles per tank and i did not drove under 100 mph ! These are receipts for a w reg audi c5 avant v6 tdi quattro with AKE engine code 183 k on the clock now... The b5 audi does better as its 200kg lighter but it does have 18 inches alloys though.
No defo a 66L and 70L tank as simon has said but my b5 was a 60L. A friend of mine has just returned from his honeymoon in florida where the petrol was about 36p a litre and the yanks were moaning about how dear its getting.
I fukin hate this country sometimes and i think its going to get alot worse, as always we just bend over and take it up the wrongun
aragorn clarified his comments: 60L was for a B5... shame this is the B6 forum, so when somebody says "quattro", we assume it's a B6 quattro, unless otherwise stated.
i only assume ppl are talking about b6 as this is the b6 forum ;-) as you same mate unlees otherwide stated
My car is clearly specified in my Sig!
This my thread, please be nice to each other :thumbsup:
I bought my 1.8T it when it had done just under 30k, its only upto 88k now. I get between 25-30 mpg.
hahahahaha james started a fight lol