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1.8T Sludge issues!! Can it be done without taking the engine out? Yes

Discussion in 'A4/S4 forum(B5 Chassis)' started by Broken Byzan, Mar 12, 2010.

  1. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    We travelled many miles and went to look at a shiney TQS Avant for our leader, she looked great for the cost, checked all the usual stuff history was good, but cam belt was due again. The car sounded great drove well no ratles or squeeks.

    [​IMG]

    Done the deal, and off we went. 100 miles later we had the 3 beeps of death (THE OIL LIGHT ).
    Couldn't believe it she had sounded perfect when cold and warm, all the checks under the sun didn't highlight this issue

    So nursed it home and set it about this....
    [​IMG]
    Right, Who says our Admin knows nothing about Audis!

    We had seen/ heard it might be possible to get the sump off with the engine in situ.
    [​IMG]
    access to the sump is limited.
    [​IMG]
    So out with the trolley jack after removing the nuts on the bottom of the engine mounts.

    [​IMG]

    Now that the engine was raised the sump bolts were all accessable once the jack positioning had been swapped to allow removal of the snub mount brackets to access the last few sump bolts.

    This got us into this position.
    [​IMG]

    What ever we did the sump would not clear to be removed.
    Soooooooooo. A plan was formulated. If you have just a blocked strainer, this will allow you to get to the strainer mounting bolts to remove it and clean. We were looking at fitting a new pump.

    I removed the strainer and undid the pump mounting bolts, it would wiggle around but still wouldnt come out.

    We took the lid off the old pump and then something funny happened.


    [​IMG]

    The rest or the pump would then clear to be removed

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2010
    #1
  2. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Got the YTS boy to clean the sump out...

    It looked like someone had emptied a box of tea leaves into the sump mixed with oil
    [​IMG]

    New Oil pump bottom end in

    [​IMG]

    We found that removing the right hand engine mount allowed the sump to fit around the pump half and subframe whilst coated in a liberal coating of the required sealer.

    Re assembling the oil pump inside the sump space while its covered is sealent was not easy,lol
    [​IMG]

    Due to me doing the water pump and cambelt kit i forgot to take more pics till buttoning up stage in the slight darkness and coldness
    [​IMG]

    Proper hardcore !!
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
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  3. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Going to let nature take its course and change the oil regularily to slowly flush it out rather than risk anything else blocking up.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
    #3
  4. Matt82
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    Matt82 Active Member

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    dammit cannot see the pics.

    i hate the sight of gummed up engines. its so unnecessary!

    gonna diesel/atf clean it?
    #4
  5. Me
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    Me Rock On

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    Should make this a sticky.
    #5
  6. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Why not use a sump gasket? both my engines have gaskets on there.
    #6
  7. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Later engines do not use them, they sealent straight on mate
    #7
  8. OldRedEyes
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    OldRedEyes Member

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    Nice colour, in fact it's the same as mine:hubbahubba:
    #8
  9. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    So yes, there was our day on Wednesday...

    Was it a proper day's work? Hell aye. Was it worth it? Hell aye. Did I learn a lot and have a laugh? S**t yeah! Am I grateful for all the hours of hard graft Mark cheerfully put in helping me out? S**t yeah!

    So, conclusive proof that while it's fiddly as hell to do, with a bit of lateral thinking and a fair whack of elbow grease (and certainly in my case, a bloody good friend), it is possible to administer TLC to the sump & pump without an engine crane, and with all four wheels never leaving the ground :thumbsup:

    So after doing one or two other very minor jobs this morning, I've spent the day out with my new baby - the first Audi I've owned for a few years, and the first in what is to imminently be a long line of quattros. :kissmyrings:

    It all fell into place nicely on my way back to the house just now, with the evening sun shining on one of my favourite bits of b-road, 'Jump' came on the radio... Queue my catching up with a 318i and quickly reminding myself just how quattro permanent four wheel drive makes a difference, and I was off into the sunset leaving the rep-mobile in my wake. Life doesn't get much better than enjoying your own version of this on a Friday evening :racer: ...

    [ytv]lzIU_XOx_LQ[/ytv]

    Big thanks again to Mark for all his help in making it possible!

    Rob.
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  10. Purple Princess
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    Purple Princess Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh will you two get a room!!!!

    Nar only joking good work Mark and your YTS boy seems to be learning a little bit. V8 next Robbooooo????

    :idea:
    #10
  11. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    :lmfao:

    Hey, thanks to you and the rest of the family for your patience while I monopolised Mark too!

    And nah, no V8 for now - quite happy as I am.

    V10 biturbo though. Hmmmmmm.... ;)

    Rob.
    #11
  12. rasA4
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    rasA4 Four Rings Mafia Specialist

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    nice clean car Rob, Welcome back to Audi's
    #12
  13. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Cheers fella :beerchug:

    I reckon the cleanest bit of the car at this moment is the inside of the sump :lmfao:

    She's got a few cosmetic bits here and there which need sorting out - but nothing serious enough to keep me awake at night. I'm much more interested in the mechanical side of things now (I started my Audi career with more show than go (although to be fair I only had a provisional licence then!)); and she most certainly doesn't disappoint in that department. I'm currently at the stage where a trip to the shop 200 yards away for a pint of milk is likely to take in excess of an hour, mainly because I have to walk past the car to get there, and there's a choice of three awesome b-road blasts a few hundred yards in the other direction(s)!

    Cheers,

    Rob.
    #13
  14. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    Fair play. Nice job. Where there is a will, lots of brews and a moderate(or) amount of cursing there is most definetely a way.......
    #14
  15. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    fitting an oversized filter can reduce sludginess on B5's apparently. (passats suffer from it also I believe).
    I just bought this:
    [​IMG]

    its about an 1" wider and 1.5" longer
    some people run much bigger ones
    #15
  16. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ed, got a part number for that bad boy?
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  17. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    it comes up as : WL7068 or PH3569

    TBH I just asked the guy for the biggest one he had with the same seal and thread size!
    not sure what it is off.
    should make life for the oil pump a bit easier and increase the volume a bit
    #17
  18. Geeman
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    Geeman Low Life

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    Excellent work Mark. Will have to bring mine down to you for some 'expert' work on it when I need it!

    Nice looking Avant too. Looks very clean.
    #18
  19. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Aye, and Ming Blue did great work in the sustenance department, keeping us going with brews, biccies and fried chicken! Come to think of it, there weren't many members of ASN staff not working on the car in one way or another last Wednesday!

    ...and again, I'm grateful to everyone for their help and support - brought the car up to Preston yesterday, 4h 45m (bloody traffic/roadworks!) with the engine working and she never even twitched! The nicest part was just taking my Dad (a veteran of a LOT of Audis in days gone by) out for a little spin in her, and seeing the quattro smile spread across his face :)

    Good shout! I'm about 4,500 miles away from my next oil change, so I'll definitely go for one of those big mothas when the time comes!

    Cheers,

    Rob.
    #19
  20. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hey Rob, how did thwe MPG do en route?

    Those filters look good, in the US most decent places already have a larger alternative available, over here if you ask you get a blank look. It's why on my last car i had the K&N one as it was larger is stature, and alsdo in fricken cost,lol. I imagine we could get 2 of the pattern ones for one k&N one
    #20
  21. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    itsfunny, one place actually refused to sell one to me when he found out what I was doing.
    said it "was'nt advisable to mess with oil filters"!

    wasn't looking for advice....just a f'ing big filter!
    #21
  22. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    it shouldnt be too hard to find a big one. Mate of mine needed a shorter one for his locost so looked up the thread and seal diameter and found one from a renault that was perfect.

    I'll see if i can find out where he got the data.
    #22
  23. FactionOne
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    FactionOne Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I was on target for 36-37mpg if really squeezing it I reckon (although it'd have been less without all the 50mph average speed sections); however a 5 minute stop with the engine running on the A449 and dealing with an impatient weapon in a Proton on the M50 brought that down to something mid-way between 36 and 35mpg. Passing a truck on the M5 on-slip with lashings of smile pedal brought it to 34.9mpg and it took a while to get back up over 35mpg. It all went west at M5 J1 though, where I sat in a queue to join M6 North for about 45 minutes. More 50mph sections (most of the M6 is 50mph at the moment) compounded that delay so I increased cruise speed a little when I could - oh, and there was a chap in a Mk IV making objections to my observing the two second rule, attempting to use tiny gaps (if it were big enough, I'd have been sat in it) in lane two to get past. Objection overruled ;) I still got just over 33mpg for the trip though, which under the circumstances I'm happy with.

    Aye, but don't forget a K&N oil filter is probably good for at least 50 extra horses! ;)

    He's right! Think of all the finely balanced engineering that goes into a can with a strainer inside and a hole at one end!?! :lmfao:

    Regards,

    Rob.
    #23
  24. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    Well i've found some ;)

    MANN 719/30 is the stock filter:

    http://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodk...ktlg_01_fzart=1&ktlg_subpage=0&gobackToPage=1

    Has 3/4-16UNF thread and a 71/66 sealing ring.

    http://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodk...0&ktlg_07_valUGV=&ktlg_07_RSV=&ktlg_07_flag=1

    That should give a big list.

    Immediately i can see the W730/1 which is about 2" longer than stock, W950/4 which is 2" longer and an inch fatter etc etc.

    Interestingly the W 950/4 (which is 93x170mm) is fitted as standard to some VW's Including the caravelle and transporter from 1990 to 2003.
    #24
  25. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    #25
  26. L1 HCS
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    L1 HCS Active Member

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    Following from Mark's nice clear pictures, here's some of my not so nice and unclear pictures... (sorry folks)..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    #26
  27. phoenixv6quattro
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    phoenixv6quattro staylowmovefast

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    "Aye, and Ming Blue did great work in the sustenance department, keeping us going with brews, biccies and fried chicken! Come to think of it, there weren't many members of ASN staff not working on the car in one way or another last Wednesday!

    ...and again, I'm grateful to everyone for their help and support - brought the car up to Preston yesterday, 4h 45m (bloody traffic/roadworks!) with the engine working and she never even twitched! The nicest part was just taking my Dad (a veteran of a LOT of Audis in days gone by) out for a little spin in her, and seeing the quattro smile spread across his face :)"...................

    .............Check you out! I wish I had CSS (Combat Service Support!lol) everytime I fooked about with my chariot!!!! The best thing I got is my MRS complaining ans I quote "you spend more time with that car than me, why don't you marry that blah blah blah blah etc etc etc" and my hound licking my face when I'm trying to change my diff mount.........
    #27
  28. Geeman
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    Geeman Low Life

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    A wife AND a hound...? Brilliant. All I've got is an impending wife! To be fair though, she's pretty good. At least she can keep her eye on me when I'm on the drive with the car(s)...!

    I'm a loner when it comes to actually working on my cars though... It's a trust thing! lol
    #28
  29. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It was a welcome break from my crazy mutts doing the same thing Ollie. When i first had my quattro and was doing brakes and cv gaiters the puppy had actual CV grease hand prints on him from where i kept having to lift him from my lap to access my car,:whip:
    #29
  30. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    rofl at the CV grease prints.

    JCB: the one you linked has a different pressure releif valve, 1bar instead of 2.5, the W950/4 is the biggest i could see with the correct releif valve rating.
    #30
  31. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Also to add i have found that it's used in the US, that and its equivelents (w950/4) In fact its that popular it gets rebadged into different brands
    #31
  32. jcb
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    jcb Active Member

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    I was wondering about pressures.
    not sure what this one I have is rated to, better check
    #32
  33. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    once youv'e found the best option any chance you can post the part number up so i can get a few for my next oil change and flush through,
    thanks in advance
    #33
  34. hardhitter
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    hardhitter Member

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    The filter I got from VAG was big (lots bigger than the one that came off). Be careful as different filters have different pressure relief rates (inside). So if the oil pressure exceeds this, you get oil passing through un-filtered.
    #34
  35. aragorn
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    aragorn "Stick a V8 in it!" Staff Member Moderator

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    jamie: MANN W950/4 is the best option from what i can see.

    Your local friendly filter supplyer should be able to cross reference that to what ever manufacturer they use.

    AFAIK it was fitted as standard to VW transporters.
    #35
  36. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    do they all filter at the same particle size (couldn't think of how else to word it)
    #36
  37. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    #37
  38. Broken Byzan
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    Broken Byzan Photographic Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Its bloomin massive

    [​IMG]

    I am not going to stick it on for the sake of it, but next change (about 5k) i will confirm the additional qty of oil needed over and above the 3.5 litres
    #38
  39. jamie226bhp
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    jamie226bhp Member

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    the vw passat one that they fit as the larger alternative is quoted as part number 068 115 561B, and apparantly all vw audi dealers should have a note of the larger one to be used on the earlier models

    Oil Filter

    Per Technical Bulletin #04-01 Group 17 V/W & Audi recommend using this larger oil filter for all their 1.8T engines.

    [​IMG]
    #39
  40. S4twiggy
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    S4twiggy Fully Certified Detailer!!

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    good going lads. rob she looks nice mate, finally got an audi and didnt stray to the dark side mate, good good.

    i can see that with the help of mark that TQS will be running very smoothly from now on. good job boys.
    #40

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