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07-08 2.0tdi quattro bad idea...?

Discussion in 'Audi S4/A4/A4 Cab (B7 Chassis)' started by tut_gareth, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    I'm starting a new job soon so going to treat myself to a new(ish) motor.. (have upto £11k to spend)
    The commute is 40miles each way with 30 on mways and dcways and the rest main roads 40-60...

    So,, I've been reading all the threads on 2.0tdi's and quattro's and i'm now totally confused...
    I would really like an A4 avant 2.0tdi Quattro 170 but have read lots of scare stories about dpfs and injectors and fuel pumps and poor MPG!!

    For that sort of commute do I get one and have a dpf delete and remap, then would I be seeing reasonable mpg or should i just get a fwd and some winter tyres when needed..??... or a 3.0tdi Quattro..??

    Any help or views would be appreiated

    Thanks
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  3. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Was the 2.0TDi sold as a Quattro? I can't remember seeing one.
    #2
  4. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Theres a few for sale on autotrader.... so i hope so.
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  5. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    I would not worry much about it, the injectors are replaced free of charge by the dealer nowadays and apart from failing oil pump drive there's not much that can go wrong. I have worked on a forum member's quattro and replaced the oil pump drive/balancer shaft with power max engineering upgraded parts and to be honest it's a hoot to drive. Get a DPF delete and a good custom map and you'll be not disappointed ! Very nice, sturdy chassis and you can pick them for much less than your budget which means there's loads left in the kitty for mods...
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  6. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Thanks, having had mega mileage reliable quattro's before I do yearn for another, just need to keep the fuel / running costs in check this time. Do you know of a decent specialist for DPF delete and remap in the south / Surrey / Berkshire area?
    #5
  7. scotty76
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    scotty76 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    I can recommend Clive @ cntuning.co.uk based in Wokingham area for a remap. I'm sure he would do the DPF delete too. No connection other than as a satisfied customer.
    #6
  8. T3nnant
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    T3nnant Active Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    i have a 2.0tdi 170 Quattro, I had dpf issues when I got it but I only work 6 mile away from home.. I got a dpf delete along with egr delete and remap and it changed the car!
    My car also had the injector recall from audi so that was sorted.. As said above its free, check the history and see if its been done.

    Really fun car to drive and its pretty damn quick.
    wasn't to fun in the snow... more the fact my tires wernt great and I was more scared of other road users though!
    #7
  9. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Unfortunately the fue economy is not great on the quattro, the one i have driven before will struggle to do 27Mpg in town and 40 on a run ! My tuned v6 tdi quattro will do that easily !
    #8
  10. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    Must admit I'm tempted by the 3.0 tdi if the 2.0 is no better on fuel long distance (which is what I'll be doing)
    T3nnant what mpg did you get from yours after the dpf delete?
    #9
  11. jdp1962
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    jdp1962 Grumpy Old Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    [Sep 10, 2013]
    The 3.0TDI is just epic. Get one if you can find a good one.
    #10
  12. scotty76
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    scotty76 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Totally agree with this. Would buy the 3.0 instead of the 2.0.
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  13. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    The only good thing about the 2.0Tdi quattro is lower tax, insurance and emission bracket. As above, i would go for a 3.0Tdi but i kow for a fact that the 2.0Tdi can be made to shift really well and will handle much, much better than a 3.0Tdi will ever do ! For starter, the 3.0Tdi is much heavier even than the old 2.5 V6 tdi engine + is not the easiest or cheapest engine to work on + it has it's own share of issues: injectors, EGR valves, inlet manifolds and stretching chains ! I will choose a cambelt driven engine for that reason, audi does not do great chain drives compared to Mercedes or BMW !

    Only reason i did not go for a 2.0Tdi yet is poxy Siemens PPD injectors and engine management system, however there are folks swapping to Bosch injectors and ECU which are much, much easier to tune and up-rated nozzles are widely available so you can go beyond 220Bhp after uprading the turbo and custom remap !

    2.0tdi quattro with a DPF delete, custom map and hybrid turbo will do 240bhp all day long, it will need a new, stronger clutch but that's it, being a cross flow engine it has bags of torque and revs nicely to 5000 rpm's ! It also has a proper Getrag gearbox that can take the power !
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  14. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Great info there pal, I've decided to keep my motor having done lots of mods, so now thinking of engine mods, thanks

    Mac
    #13
  15. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Cheers thats some good info, i'm not looking for extreme power as its going to be my daily, so reasonable economy and reliability is important this time round... and quattro of course!

    Do these 2.0tdi engines behave more like a petrol in terms of power delivery higher up the rev range or is there good tourque imediatley like a traditional diesel?
    #14
  16. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    The engine behaves pretty much as a petrol engine when it's on boost especially with a remap. It also revs nicely but the power tails off sharpish after 4000rpm's so there's no point revving it any higher. It's not as smooth as the later CR Engines but not as coarse as the 8 valve PD engines either. 2.0Tdi quattro with a DPF delete and a good, custom remap is a very nice daily driver and does not mind getting thrown in the bends either. Swapping to rs4 rear antiroll bar and s4 b6 brakes upfront will also tighten the handling and stop it on a dime...
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  17. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]


    If the oil pump drive fails you will wreck the engine and turbo necessitating a new engine and turbo which will very likely cost you more than the car is worth . Avoid the Audi 2.0 tdi like the plague,it is a DOG of an engine period!
    If you can afford it go for the 3.0 tdi which is relatively bomb proof for a modern diesel engine.
    #16
  18. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Fortunately the engine will give you plenty warnings: the oil pressure lamp lit on the dash sporadically + the first is the turbo that goes ! If you ignore the signs and only service the car as when it's shows on the dash then yes(read every 2 years or 30k !!!), i think some people are pretty ignorant !
    The 3.0Tdi has it's own set of issues, no amount of praying will stop the chains from stretching if on Longlife intervals and there's no recall on injectors like on the 2.0Tdi case so the customer will have to fork the bill- £2500+ ...
    Oil pump drive on 2.0Tdi should be made to be a routine item and changing a 5 quid part will save your engine...Unfortunately folk want their modern car to be as reliable as cars from 1970-1990 which used to cost 3 times in today's money ! You buy cheap you buy twice's the saying !
    #17
  19. dpaz
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    dpaz Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    The 3.0 vs 2.0 TDi discussion pops up a lot.

    I own a 2.0 PD170 and my father has the 3.0 TDi. The V6 is a lot smoother but as already mentioned is a lot heavier. My general conclusion is if Quattro is a must then get the 3.0 as the 4WD is better suited to the V6 engine.

    As for the 2.0, I have two friends who are Audi tech's and (on the later models) they blame not doing regular oil changes for the oil pump drive issues.

    I may be biased, but the 2WD PD170 is a decent balance between performance and economy. After I had mine remapped (+EGR delete) its producing 200bhp, 310lb/ft and has the bonus of doing 45mpg+ on a run. Had 52mpg on B-roads the other week.
    #18
  20. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    The chain driven oil pumps can fail instantly causing immediate engine and turbo seizure. Your above comments are only relevant to the gear driven units.
    #19
  21. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    The Audi 2.0 tdi engines have a latent design defect inherent to the oil pump/balance shaft design that is NOTHING to do with regular oil changes. I respectfully suggest your two Audi tech friends have been brain washed by the Audi marketing machine LOL?
    #20
  22. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Regarding this inherent design flaw.... I'm hearing about a powermax engineering replacement that can cure this issue... Any views?
    #21
  23. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 11, 2013]
    Quattro is almost a must as I've had it before, my 1.8t fwd is great but I do miss the ability of Quattro. And I'm thinking winter time fwd isn't as capable...
    But As I'm doing a lot of mway and A-roads to work I need to see 45+ mpg...
    #22
  24. hollow
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    hollow Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2013]
    early b8 2.0 tdi models have this inherent design flaw as well , thats why after sept 2009 the pump design was modified .
    i own a 58 plate b8 which had the bad pump. I bought an upgraded part from elsewhere £250 exchange . There is a noticable difference in the design .

    i fitted the replacement part myself .the old design the allen key goes into the drive gear around 25mm but is very loose ,mine had started to wear the allen key round.
    the new one is a very tight inteference fit and goes into the drive 50mm + the drive gear is also designed better . the company also does a lifetime guarantee on it .

    In my personal opinion it has nothing what so ever to do with oil change intervals , it is a bad design by the manufacturer and if it wears badly enough no amount of oil will replace your turbo and seized engine .
    #23
  25. Macdoon
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    Macdoon Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 12, 2013]
    I also went down the road of replacing mine roughly the same price from a company called KMB in Sheffield, piece of mind, love the car tbh
    #24
  26. dpaz
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    dpaz Active Member

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    [Sep 12, 2013]
    Could you provide details of where the part was purchased from?
    #25
  27. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 15, 2013]
    +1
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  28. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Sep 16, 2013]
    Read the big 2.0 tdi/balance shaft thread on this forum as IT'S ALL IN THERE.
    You can also do yourself a favour by getting a copy of the November 2012 issue of Audi Driver (available on back order from the publisher)as the oil pump issues and fixes are detailed therein.
    Good luck and READ the main thread.
    #27
  29. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 17, 2013]
    only just on page 18! :ohmy: :( And after only reading this far i'm currently leaning towards a 3.0tdi.... maybe even an A6 3.0tdi Q......
    #28
  30. adamss24
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    adamss24 Well-Known Member

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    [Sep 17, 2013]
    Trust me mate, i have been working on a many 2.0 Tdi and on a 3.0 Tdi ! The 3.0Tdi is much, much more higher maintenance compared to the 2.0Tdi ! If 2.0 Tdi is your thing just take the balancer shaft off altogether and put a 1.9tdi sprocket and oil pump on, apart from slight more vibration on idle there's not much you need to worry about ! 2.0Tdi with a modified balance shaft gear drive and upgraded balancer shaft will have no issues whatsoever ! I would get rid of the EGR cooler as well + get it de-cated and mapped at the same time ! Personally i prefer the old b6 1.9tdi, with a few ingredients thrown in the mix they are just as good to drive as a 2.0Tdi !
    #29
  31. Paul B7
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    Paul B7 Active Member

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    [Sep 17, 2013]
    Totally agree, 1.9 tdi would be the best all round bet for your average motorist and his pocket .
    #30
  32. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Sep 18, 2013]
    Thanks adamss24, for fuel ecomony, running / maintenance costs I thought the 2.0 tdi would be the one to go for....

    I've not found much info about this 1.9tdi PD oil pump swap... has it been succesfully done and is it a cheaper / better alternative to having the Hex shaft upgraded? can you direct me to any threads with this.

    I see on your profile your from London....can you recommend any good independants around the london / surrey / M25 area that could potentially do oil pump, dpf delete, egr delete, and remap work ?
    #31
  33. tut_gareth
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    tut_gareth Member

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    [Nov 6, 2013]
    Well I bought a 07 2.0 Tdi Quattro with 44k on it and it's great but definitely needs the flat spot / turbo lag sorting below 2000rpm.. Remap time maybe. And the dis is reading 43mpg but I'm thinking it's closer to 39...not very good really. My 96 C4 A6 2.5 tdi Q did 48mpg... !!
    #32
  34. matthew999
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    matthew999 Member

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    [Nov 8, 2013]
    I get the same mpg, quattro are less efficient than FDW. Also new cars are have much stricter emissions and are less efficient than older ones. Your mpg is pretty standard. Drive it like miss daisy and never on boost and you might get mid 40s but that's just boring. Floor it and watch the real time mpg (althogh should be taken with a pinch of salt) go down to 15mpg:)
    #33

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