SMFW + Sachs Clutch - Slow change at high revs?

tobycruse

tobycruse

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I have spoken to a few people in regards to this and wanted to throw this problem on here to see if anyone has any ideas. Any thoughts would be very helpful!

There seems to be a small problem changing gear quickly at high revs. If i try to change from 2nd to 3rd for example, say i'm flat out in 2nd, foot on the clutch, push the stick from 2nd to 3rd, the stick wont move into 3rd until the revs have dropped, as soon as they do ( about 1 seconds time), it slides in and i can lift the clutch. It seems to take for ever and it makes quick gear changes at high revs impossible.

Does anyone have an idea what could be wrong?

It only started doing this after i had the single mass flywheel fitted and the Sachs clutch.

Thanks in advance.
 
I have a similar intermittent problem going from 2nd to 3rd (standard set up).

One of my GTi 1/4 mile runs bear this out as on the graph you can see where I have had to wait to change!

I sometimes wonder whether there is more to this as it only seems to happen to me going from 2nd to 3rd, so was wondering whether something like an uprated dog bone mounting bush would resolve it (if it is alignment issue when the engine is under load and moving back/forth between gear changes)
 
toby did audi fit the clutch , as to the gear change i can change at 6500 7000 rpm into 3rd no prob and the car is on the power right away but i still have standard clutch with the giac hammer file
 
aldo286 said:
toby did audi fit the clutch , as to the gear change i can change at 6500 7000 rpm into 3rd no prob and the car is on the power right away but i still have standard clutch with the giac hammer file
Click to expand...

No, AmD fitted the clutch and flywheel. I'm sure it happens from 3rd to 4th also. If i change gear in the 5000rpm to 6000rpm its not so bad. I have the uprated engine mounts on my car also.
 
its wierd toby it must something to do with th strenth in the single plate fly wheel in the clutch, i can gun my car in all gears and get the power down instantly , but warren is on the origanal clutch and says he has the same prob , buy any chance do both of you have the short shift fitted to your boxes:think:
 
aldo286 said:
its wierd toby it must something to do with th strenth in the single plate fly wheel in the clutch, i can gun my car in all gears and get the power down instantly , but warren is on the origanal clutch and says he has the same prob , buy any chance do both of you have the short shift fitted to your boxes:think:
Click to expand...

Nope. I began to think maybe I was just over eager and it could be a driving style issue, but never suffered it on a car before.
 
it sounds like the fly wheel and engine are at different speeds thus holding the car in gear until one or the other catches up to the same speed , this is my fifth audi and i cant say i have heard of this
 
I do have a Forge quick shift on my car. Could it be this?

What is a timing marking on the flywheel. If it were out what would the symptoms be?
 
toby i dont think it can be the short shift as warren doesnt have a short shift fitted , have you asked amd about the prob mention the timing marks if you are on the phone to them , my pal is a tech with audi i will have a word with him if you have no joy at amd mate
 
the other thing I have noticed since new clutch is that when i start the car, the 1st time I hit 10mph I get a clunk through the drivetrain (quite gentle, but noticeable). Never had it with old clutch. Don't know if is nature of the new clutch or just fall out from crap Audi repair job. I have no other clutch related issues with this set up other than explained above.
 
toby , any news on the clutch , ive been out in mine and as i said i can change 2nd to 3rd at 65000rpm without any probs it comes out of second no probs aldo
 
My car has just gone into AmD to have a look at the transmission to see if there are any problems. Shaun has advised me that it isn't a clutch / flywheel issue. He believes it to be a problem with the syncromesh, hence why its also happening on standard S3's. I think that the clutch / flywheel has just brought the problem out of the wood work. Now its time to convince Audi that the gear box is ******** and to get it fixed under warranty. I hope they don't take one look at my car and run a mile!
 
warrencox said:
the other thing I have noticed since new clutch is that when i start the car, the 1st time I hit 10mph I get a clunk through the drivetrain (quite gentle, but noticeable). Never had it with old clutch. Don't know if is nature of the new clutch or just fall out from crap Audi repair job. I have no other clutch related issues with this set up other than explained above.
Click to expand...

Mine also clunks a bit,but is still on the standard clutch.

There are no other transmission issues though and the gear changes are fine.

My A3 3.2 also clunked,and I assumed this was simply a bit of transmission related noise.
 
tobycruse said:
My car has just gone into AmD to have a look at the transmission to see if there are any problems. Shaun has advised me that it isn't a clutch / flywheel issue. He believes it to be a problem with the syncromesh, hence why its also happening on standard S3's. I think that the clutch / flywheel has just brought the problem out of the wood work. Now its time to convince Audi that the gear box is ******** and to get it fixed under warranty. I hope they don't take one look at my car and run a mile!
Click to expand...
best of luck mate , if its a common known fault and standard cars have the same prob audi dont have a leg to stand on if the cars been modded or not
 
the rev difference between 2nd and 3rd gears is too much for the synchros to handle.

Allow the revs to drop a bit more before pushing the stick into 3rd and it will be fine as you have found.

It should be nothing directly to do with the clutch or flywheel as it is disengaged when you are changing gear, unless the clutch is dragging slightly......ie not completely disengaging when you press your foot on the pedal, you are fully disengaging the clutch arent you?

I imagine that the new clutch/flywheel allows for less time between disengaging and re-engaging the clutch, hence you're noticing a problem. I guess it could actually be a fault with the gearbox, but if it only appeared after the clutch change, I would put this one down to incompatibility between components, and not an inherent fault (similar to all these misfires that only occur when teh car has been remapped, but for some reason some people think audi should fix it.)

It could also be due to the quick shift, if that also allows you to move between gears faster than normal.

If it happens when the car is standard, its a fault and audi should fix (if in warranty), if it only happens after mods, then its not a fault audi should fix.
 
julians said:
the rev difference between 2nd and 3rd gears is too much for the synchros to handle.

Allow the revs to drop a bit more before pushing the stick into 3rd and it will be fine as you have found.

It should be nothing directly to do with the clutch or flywheel as it is disengaged when you are changing gear, unless the clutch is dragging slightly......ie not completely disengaging when you press your foot on the pedal, you are fully disengaging the clutch arent you?

I imagine that the new clutch/flywheel allows for less time between disengaging and re-engaging the clutch, hence you're noticing a problem. I guess it could actually be a fault with the gearbox, but if it only appeared after the clutch change, I would put this one down to incompatibility between components, and not an inherent fault (similar to all these misfires that only occur when teh car has been remapped, but for some reason some people think audi should fix it.)

It could also be due to the quick shift, if that also allows you to move between gears faster than normal.

If it happens when the car is standard, its a fault and audi should fix (if in warranty), if it only happens after mods, then its not a fault audi should fix.
Click to expand...


TBH this sounds fair enough, if we choose to mod our cars we have to be prepared to have issues when we need to make a claim, I'm beginning to wonder at this early stage of knowledge gathering if the S3 is best kept to a more manageable power level of max 330bhp so that the OEM components can be left in place.

Hope you get things sorted
 
Great thread just put my clutch on and its single mass had an upshift failure but am gonna go completely powerflex with all the engine and tranny mount issues. I already have a Milltek lower engine mount brace thing with a urethane bushing and a washer showing on the lower skid plate under the engine.
 
S3GG said:
Great thread just put my clutch on and its single mass had an upshift failure but am gonna go completely powerflex with all the engine and tranny mount issues. I already have a Milltek lower engine mount brace thing with a urethane bushing and a washer showing on the lower skid plate under the engine.
Click to expand...


I've seen your other posts on this topic.....my S3,like a good few others here,is on Stage2+ Revo,with about 360bhp and 360-370lbs.

I've got the uprated Sachs clutch and a DMF,and have had no problems whatsoever with shifts or engine mounts. Obviously so far!
 
S3GG said:
Great thread just put my clutch on and its single mass had an upshift failure but am gonna go completely powerflex with all the engine and tranny mount issues. I already have a Milltek lower engine mount brace thing with a urethane bushing and a washer showing on the lower skid plate under the engine.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you are suffering upshift problems as well mate? :think:
Reason I ask is that my mate (who has gone Stage 2+ recently) has ordered a SPEC SMFW and Stage 3 Clutch kit from Backdraft (after being put on to them by Revo) and i'm wondering whether he will also have problems?
I did try and talk him out of it after speaking to a few of the chaps on here who have had no problems with the Sachs + DMFW set up. But to no avail unfortunately as he thinks it'll be fine.
Has anybody else tried / heard of this set up?
 
It's only happened once so far but some gearbox additive like don't laugh its called Millitec ! From military technology... Its good for the engine to it says... Definitely does the trick with the synchros.. But still going for the engine tranny mounts.... Knowing from my 4x4 days when these parts flex the alignment between them changes causing friction and possibly a missed shift worn out diff seals and eventually other components. Definitely have to go that way, the grabbing power is for up to 600nm and thats absolute clamping power, tighter than a virgin at Rodeo as they say .... ha ha (heard that on tv).
 
recently added powerflex complete lower engine mount kit problem resolved by eighty percent, once all the othe mounts are replaced its going to be tank solid... definitely night and day difference cant beleive what a difference sixty euros made...
 
how is this topic? I have a similar problem and I'm going crazy. after mounting the sachs performance SMF kit it is difficult to fit the gears at high revolutions (5000rpm - 65000) the entry is very slow and sometimes it gets stuck. this did not happen to me with the dmf sachs kit, do you have any idea what could be happening? below 5500 rpm everything is fine
 
Input shaft play.
 
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It has to do with the center gap of the sachs disc and the input shaft of the gearbox....they don't mach exactly ..... and as a result you have noise at idle and ( for me personally) changes above 6500 were a gamble.....sometime ok, sometime 2nd to 3rd was a complete failure...
So i installed DSG and all problems solved.
 
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