Urgent must prepare what questions to ask to car tuner this week!!!

bonecore

bonecore

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Never went to tuning before, car is fully serviced with tuned parts, just needs dynotune.
So here i am with 2.0 tfsi K03 for a directly stage2+ custom tune.
The tuner is 600km away so i need to get it right the first time. (he keeps car for 7 days, also to upgrade intercooler)
So far i will ask next things:

-save me the original map on a cd/usb stick
-print me the before and after dyno graphs
-safety and reliability is prioritary
-do not increase rev limiter, maybe decrease it rpm band where max power is (by 500rpm?)
-currently rpm's drop upshifting is 1600rpm. shitbox changes are slow... so i will ask for a powerband of at least 1800 rpm ?!?


What else should i ask?
- can i ask for example between 1800 and 2500 rpm the A/F ratio to be so that i use less fuel ?
- can i ask for a tune for RON95 petrol below 4000rpm and for 98RON for above 4000rpm ?
-can i ask for no bumps in grapth after first peak Torque ... or is too much to ask for this car?!?
 
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- smoke test to make sure there are no leaks on the engine
- check the spark plugs, coil pack, the pcv system and the diverter valve After Tuning
- before the final tune, i want to see the graph on whatsapp to not be disapointed when i get there (600km)
 
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Where are you taking it for mapping?
What are you looking for from the map?
What level of maintenance is the car at?

Have you read the Preventative Maintenance thread pinned to the top of the 8P section?

Any decent tuner will have his/her process for premap checks. You need to find out what these are - I’d be worried if you had to ask them to check stuff.

What’s the highest RON fuel you can get? Run your car on that and never change. You don’t have 2 fuel tanks, so you can’t use 95 < 4000rpm and 98 > 4000rpm. RON is RON and the map can’t change this.

Assuming you have DSG then are you getting the box mapped too?

You’re going to 2+ so if your use a heavy accelerator foot then the A/F ratio is irrelevant. However with normal driving you shouldn’t notice any change to fuel economy.

You could specify that your want the torque band in lower revs but you may not be making the most of a Stg2+ map.
 
I would not ask for a fuel economy map. If the tuner makes it run lean then the combustion chamber temperatures can get very high. This can lead to problems with the pistons.
As the engine has more power you will find yourself using less accelerator pedal which can lead to increased economy anyway.
Make sure you use top quality engine oil and as you must have fitted an uprated fuel pump check the cam follower regularly.
Is there a tuner closer than 600 km away in case you need to have any adjustments to the map?
Also worth having the oil pick up pipe and filter checked.
 
samuelh_888 said:
Where are you taking it for mapping?
What are you looking for from the map?
What level of maintenance is the car at?

What’s the highest RON fuel you can get? Run your car on that and never change. You don’t have 2 fuel tanks, so you can’t use 95 < 4000rpm and 98 > 4000rpm. RON is RON and the map can’t change this.

You could specify that your want the torque band in lower revs but you may not be making the most of a Stg2+ map.
Click to expand...

mine is manual 6 gears, oil pickup pipe was checked
i put in car what he asked so far: Millers CFS 5w40 NT+, audi r8 ignition coils, denso ik24 spark plugs, pcv , DV, new gearbox oil, new haldex oil, replaced timing chain+ tensioneer, cam folower , revo intake

i can get 95RON or 98RON
tuner said i have to stick with what he tunes it for... he recomends 98RON +10-15 HP , but if i really want he can tune it for 95RON
should i use the highest ron i can get ?!? what if i go in summer to another country ... and cant find 98 ron. This car is my holidays car ?!?
 
throttle valve angle - is this a parameter in tuning ?!?
i used obd eleven and noticed when driving for fuel economy i got maximum 25% throttle valve angle
Can i ask tuner to tune for fuel economy between 5% and 25% throttle valve angle ???
 
Excellent engine oil!
Lots of us in the U.K. use NGK BKR7EIX spark plugs.
I would have the 98 RON map and research fuel ratings before you go on holiday.
I would just ask the tuner for his /her best map that is safe for the engine that will make the best of the hardware you have installed.
 
Make sure they save the original map and they will re-install it if things go wrong in the future. Should be free or a minimal charge to do this. Don't travel hundreds of miles to the tuner, you may need tweaks in the near future.
I would shy away from a stock map, best to have a custom map, which means a rolling road session included, it will add to the cost of course but well worth it.
 
SootySport said:
Make sure they save the original map and they will re-install it if things go wrong in the future. Should be free or a minimal charge to do this. Don't travel hundreds of miles to the tuner, you may need tweaks in the near future.
I would shy away from a stock map, best to have a custom map, which means a rolling road session included, it will add to the cost of course but well worth it.
Click to expand...
ok, i will ask what will happen if i need tweaks in future?!?
i've had mechaniks **** my car and i sat with it for half a year ... so i go 600km away just because he is very good in tuning 2.0 tfsi
 
at the moment the car is at the tuner and it will be ready in 7 working days.
i asked for a safe tune and he said that i will not see 275HP on a K03 stage2+
he said dyno graph are not all the story since it it mainly a before and after thing... and he is tuning the car while driving on road and only after that he uses dyno... will see the results in 2 weeks
 
Ask him for a video of it on the dyno too - it could be anyones graph he shows you.
 
Interesting I tuned my 2.0 tsi k03 Quattro. Upgraded intercooler and full Miltek exhaust.

I got 260 bhp without the DSG map. Tuner said I could get more out of it with the DSG mapped.

Be interested to see how this turns out.
 
Billy Willson said:
Interesting I tuned my 2.0 tsi k03 Quattro. Upgraded intercooler and full Miltek exhaust.
I got 260 bhp without the DSG map. Tuner said I could get more out of it with the DSG mapped.
Be interested to see how this turns out.
Click to expand...


in 2 days i'll have the car back ...
mine is a 6 speed manual and tuner said i will not see 270 HP with stage2+(including autotech HPFP upgrade) on a k03
it is possible but he will not do it ( he has experience blowing engines , tuning rally cars in 8 years+ of only petrol TFSI experience)

however recently he did a strage tune to one guy with DSG on a k03 (i think without autotech HPFP upgrage)
Chef foa
 
difference with a manual is that i need a wide powerband because of slow shifts... but with dsg probably 800rpm wide powerband is enough

also tuner refused to install my short shifter (he said he did install plenty of them and most came back with broken gearbox ... so he is not installing anymore)
 
audi upgrades
Losses don't look right on that dyno run only 7% ?? , Big dip at 3500 RPM whats going on there ?
 
desertstorm said:
Losses don't look right on that dyno run only 7% ?? , Big dip at 3500 RPM whats going on there ?
Click to expand...
no idea what the guy asked ... that is what he got ?!?
i asked for something else... will see what i get in 2 days
 
No, the torque curve looks all wrong - the K03 is known for making all its torque early, something wrong there.
 
Thanks for the info. I won't comment on the graph as I don't have much technical knowledge.

I will add that I changed my wheels for new Alloys and tyres the other day and wow what a difference!

I took off the S-line alloys and Bridgestone tyres - For OZ Allegerita 18" with Micheline Pilot Sport 4's the car has gone rapid.

Obviously the tyres must have mad a difference but the lightweight wheels are amazing next up installing the Superpro Alloy wishbone kit.
 
Billy Willson said:
Thanks for the info. I won't comment on the graph as I don't have much technical knowledge.

I will add that I changed my wheels for new Alloys and tyres the other day and wow what a difference!

I took off the S-line alloys and Bridgestone tyres - For OZ Allegerita 18" with Micheline Pilot Sport 4's the car has gone rapid.

Obviously the tyres must have mad a difference but the lightweight wheels are amazing next up installing the Superpro Alloy wishbone kit.
Click to expand...
what benefits do u get from superpro allow wishbone kit ?!?
is comfort better or just steering !?!
wow those OZ 18inch are expensive!:)
 
I haven't installed the wishbone kit yet.
Next month it's going on. It has anti lift kit built in and it's aluminium so will lighten up front end making steering in quicker. Better bushings etc .
S3 is aluminium. Should I have bought an S3 probably but what the hell
 
Also I got the OZ alloys second hand .Good deal about half the new price.

I was looking for light wheels and luckily a guy was selling a GTI Mk5 or 6 and no one wanted to pay for it so he put it back to standard. He was selling amazing AP brakes aswell but I didn't have the money .

I'm thinking of taking out the back seats the weight saving stuff has got me convinced
 
IMG 20180317 WA0001
i asked the tuner the following:
-safety and reliability is prioritary
-at upshift ,i upshift slowly and rpm drop in between gears from 6500 to 4800rpm => i neeed max power band of 1800-2000rpm
-usually i shift gears between 3500-4200 rpm with 3/4 throttle , other times i rarely drag race and shift at 6500rpm and other times i want insane fuel economy i go burn and coast, with light acceleration and then speen maintaining, slightly decreasing.

He told me about the economy that car has a stochiometric mixture air/fuel and that will not be changes. Fuel from now on will be only 100RON
Here are the results
-max torque 441.6 Nm is at 3545rpm on dyno ... on the road tuner said it is around 3200 ... because of more load on road, better boost load, etc
-powerband 264 HP from 4800 to 6500 rpm... even though the graph does not show redline, he told me 260hp is up to redline
-i asked what is the boost on the K03 turbo.. he said the boost pressure follows the torque curve. At max torque it is 1.5bar amd at redline it is 0.7bar if i recall corectly

My opinion
-now car is a little bit scary. i mean the torque steering is accentuated, throttle response is faster , turbo sounds are louder , grim factor is better
-had some issues on the road back the AC compressor locked and snapped the belt and i drove home on batery , because alternator was not connected... all this is a very costly repair... The cause was that power is more abrupt and ac compressor was not serviced ever...
 
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there is no doubt about the power increase when driving ... but i wonder why does it show 19.02.2018 22:06 (my car was not there at that time)
 
Not sure I understand what you’ve said but as long as you’re happy.

Why is the graph dated 19th February?

Is 100RON easy to get where you are?

Wouldn’t 3545 rpm on a dyno still be 3545 rpm on the road? Dynos are meant to simulate road loading - maybe there is a correction factor that can be applied?
 


samuelh_888 said:
Why is the graph dated 19th February?

Wouldn’t 3545 rpm on a dyno still be 3545 rpm on the road? Dynos are meant to simulate road loading - maybe there is a correction factor that can be applied?
Click to expand...

Why is the graph dated 19th February? This is what i want to know:) probably he did not do a before dyno run.. just an after. The tune was made on the street driving... the dyno was just to print the paper.

About the torque.... on the road, there is the weight of the car and there is more load on the engine and turbo ... this is somewhat what the tuner said and i think it makes sense
 
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bonecore said:
Why is the graph dated 19th February? This is what i want to know:) probably he did not do a before dyno run.. just an after. The tune was on the street driving... the dyno was just to print the paper.
Click to expand...

Regardless, the car wasn’t with him on the 19th Feb. Why wouldn’t he do a before and an after for you to compare?

bonecore said:
About the torque.... on the road, there is the weight of the car and there is more load on the engine and turbo ... this is somewhat what the tuner said and i think it makes sense
Click to expand...

I’m not a physicist and I’m not a Tuner but I disagree with that logic. RPM is RPM, whether in the dyno, road or on a hoist the crank is still making the same revolutions. Unless I have it really wrong.

As long as it goes well - that’s the main thing.
 
samuelh_888 said:
I’m not a physicist and I’m not a Tuner but I disagree with that logic. RPM is RPM, whether in the dyno, road or on a hoist the crank is still making the same revolutions. Unless I have it really wrong.
Click to expand...
yes u got it really wrong, or i did not express myself correctly
the max torque 440nm will be made on the road .... at a lower rpm than on the dyno
 
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Car engines do behave differently on the road to a dyno, In higher gears and with more load and time a car will build boost earlier as the turbo has a longer time to spool up and EGT temperatures will have longer to climb.
The transmission losses look really excessive on that run though, 61bhp is over 23% . The previous dyno plot on here had only 7% transmission losses which is way too low, 23% is way too high.
In the bottom right of the dyno plot is the date 17th March 2018 14:12 which I take it is the time the photo was taken. But as you say the timestamp on the dyno run is over a month ago ?? .
The dyno figures are fairly pointless anyway as they are uncorrected for temperature or pressure. This can easily make 5% difference dependent on whether the temp is 10 degrees or 25 degrees.
If the car drives OK and your are happy with it then that's all that really counts.
 
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desertstorm said:
The transmission losses look really excessive on that run though, 61bhp is over 23% .
Click to expand...
it is a quattro probably it has more components spinning ?!? (dyno was FWD because haldex ECU is at repairshop)
 
Either he hasn't set the date / time on the dyno s/w (unlikely) or he has given you someone elses dyno report (more likely). The question is why? And why didn't he do a 'before' dyno run?

No wonder you've got torque steer if you're running in FWD atm! You want to try 340ps in a FWD Ed 30 Golf.
 
bonecore said:
it is a quattro probably it has more components spinning ?!? (dyno was FWD because haldex ECU is at repairshop)
Click to expand...
Sounds like you've still got a few things to fix before the car fully up and running strong.

Get the little things fixed and then reflect on the driving experience. 260 BHP sounds about right to me. Have you changed your air intake ?
 
Billy Willson said:
Get the little things fixed and then reflect on the driving experience. 260 BHP sounds about right to me. Have you changed your air intake ?
Click to expand...
got a revo air intake (will get a k&n filter for it because revo seems to let too much dust in)
the Haldex ECU was fixed in england and is shiped to me in about 1 week. These guys fixed it for £159.00
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Haldex-Rep...07554/1475385092?_trksid=p2047675.m4097.l9055
will let u guys know if they did a good job ... i see they have alot of good coments and rating.
 
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Any idea in what gear was the dyno graph made?
audi a3 8p 6speed manual 2.0 tfsi quattro
IMG 20180317 WA0002
 
1 week after the tune and i'm thinking i should havee gone for stage1 only.
power is fine and nice but i have nasty exhaust drone between 3000-4000 rpm.
exhaust is 76mm with a muffler and a resonator(no catalytic converter)

very quiet at low load under 3k rpm... but on highway speeds the mirror is shaking a bit and on half throttle load
i need some specialists that can reduce drone. i can go to a different country to fix this bc the car feels trash... i live in romania... any exhaust specialists in europe nearby?!
sounds nice from outside though
 
bonecore said:
1 week after the tune and i'm thinking i should havee gone for stage1 only.
power is fine and nice but i have nasty exhaust drone between 3000-4000 rpm.
exhaust is 76mm with a muffler and a resonator(no catalytic converter)

very quiet at low load under 3k rpm... but on highway speeds the mirror is shaking a bit and on half throttle load
i need some specialists that can reduce drone. i can go to a different country to fix this bc the car feels trash... i live in romania... any exhaust specialists in europe nearby?!
sounds nice from outside though
Click to expand...
That has nothing to do with tune.
It's the exhaust. Same with milltek non res.
 
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