Revo Stage 1

Dippy said:
Yeah, I totally agree with @Cerbera9 's comments.

As I have written elsewhere, I spent a good amount of time in 2014 searching for a used S5 SB with the intention of tuning it. So it was with mixed emotions that I gave up searching for the right spec car and ordered a new one, knowing that I ought to drive it stock for a year before tuning. Then I found out it had the CREC engine and I needed to wait longer for the new SIMOS ECU to be cracked. I had been keeping in touch with APR, MRC and REVO and would have gone with any of them, but MRC was first to market so I went with them. I was happy to do so because they have a great reputation with many happy customers.

However I must say that the pulley dampening issue had been on my mind. I had discussed using crank instead of supercharger pulley with Chris at REVO and he told me that they wouldn't support it. I really did have a strong preference to have a Fluidampr fitted so when MRC announced CREC support first and then were not only willing to support my Vdamper kit, but actually keen to do so, it was a "no-brainer" for me. The only part of the MRC package that I'm not 100% happy with is the TCU tune which is just the basic changes needed, no shift point remapping. But its not enough of an issue for me to bother getting an alternative gearbox tune.
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Really the TCU tune isn't that great?

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Let me clarify. The MRC TCU tune does what it NEEDS to do: Adjusts torque limit to cope with engine tune and raises the rev limiter. Then it has an improvement - quicker gear changes which I immediately noticed, and also an enhancement to LC (which I know nothing about because my LC counter will stay at 0 whilst I own the car). However it does not have any changes to the shift points.

As you know D is granny mode, and you may have experienced ADS Economy which is great-granny mode. Then of course there is S mode which raises the shift points and makes the best out of the stock engine. The trouble is that with stage 2, those S shift points are too low. Now of course when I put my foot down the TCU will ignore those shift points and rev to the redline. This is OK when I really want it to, but that means the car is seriously accelerating. Sometimes I don't want to be WOT, but I would prefer the 'box to stay in gear. Maybe not to the redline but certainly near it. In other words it feels like I can either choose 100% performance or 80% performance, but nothing in between. I would prefer the S shift points to be higher. Since I have ADS I would actually like the D points to be higher and then if I really want to drive gently and be more fuel efficient then I could use E mode.

So its not so much that the MRC TCU tune "isn't that great", its more that it is just "fit for purpose" without any "bells and whistles". Other tuners have TCU tunes with those "bells and whistles", and in particular they have adjusted the shift points to improve driveability in auto modes. Maybe MRC imagine that we always drive our cars in M?

P.S. I have read (mainly on Audizine) some mention of "issues" with TCU tunes. My gearbox is still smooth as butter and (as I noted) with quicker changes, after my MRC tune. It may just be in my mind, but this does maybe make me feel that I should do without those "bells and whistles" and be thankful that my MRC TCU tune does not have any issues and nor have I read of any problems from other owners of MRC-tuned cars.
 
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Dippy said:
Let me clarify. The MRC TCU tune does what it NEEDS to do: Adjusts torque limit to cope with engine tune and raises the rev limiter. Then it has an improvement - quicker gear changes which I immediately noticed, and also an enhancement to LC (which I know nothing about because my LC counter will stay at 0 whilst I own the car). However it does not have any changes to the shift points.

As you know D is granny mode, and you may have experienced ADS Economy which is great-granny mode. Then of course there is S mode which raises the shift points and makes the best out of the stock engine. The trouble is that with stage 2, those S shift points are too low. Now of course when I put my foot down the TCU will ignore those shift points and rev to the redline. This is OK when I really want it to, but that means the car is seriously accelerating. Sometimes I don't want to be WOT, but I would prefer the 'box to stay in gear. Maybe not to the redline but certainly near it. In other words it feels like I can either choose 100% performance or 80% performance, but nothing in between. I would prefer the S shift points to be higher. Since I have ADS I would actually like the D points to be higher and then if I really want to drive gently and be more fuel efficient then I could use E mode.

So its not so much that the MRC TCU tune "isn't that great", its more that it is just "fit for purpose" without any "bells and whistles". Other tuners have TCU tunes with those "bells and whistles", and in particular they have adjusted the shift points to improve driveability in auto modes. Maybe MRC imagine that we always drive our cars in M?
Click to expand...
I get you now. I'll be honest that's the only thing about my TCU tune I don't love. I too would like it to just hold gear without having to go WOT. I have noticed it adapts though. So saying I've been driving more aggressively it will hold gear longer but not permanently. I might ask EPL if they can change that.

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I believe (but don't know for sure) that my car has some adaption as part of ADS, but I think that is what Audi have done. I am fairly sure that the shift points are fixed.

In fact I have been noticing a really annoying thing about the Audi TCU mapping. When I am driving normally in D at 30mph and reach a change to 50mph I sometimes like to simply accelerate reasonably, but not ridiculously. So I press the accelerator without forcing kick-down. But I notice that the 'box doesn't simply hold gear but actually changes up! I haven't really looked, but it seems like just as I'm accelerating past 30mph the damn thing decides that it needs to change from D4 to D5 (or it may even be D5 to D6)!
 
Dippy said:
I believe (but don't know for sure) that my car has some adaption as part of ADS, but I think that is what Audi have done. I am fairly sure that the shift points are fixed.

In fact I have been noticing a really annoying thing about the Audi TCU mapping. When I am driving normally in D at 30mph and reach a change to 50mph I sometimes like to simply accelerate reasonably, but not ridiculously. So I press the accelerator without forcing kick-down. But I notice that the 'box doesn't simply hold gear but actually changes up! I haven't really looked, but it seems like just as I'm accelerating past 30mph the damn thing decides that it needs to change from D4 to D5 (or it may even be D5 to D6)!
Click to expand...
Mine did the same after nannying it for a day on the road. It changed once I gave it some and it then had chance to adapt. Since the TCU tune not had a problem.

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There are some good options and alternatives out there, and main thing is that you've got the car tuned now and can enjoy it.

Revo are never first to market, as we work from the complete stock file, then do extensive R&D on track and road, global BETA testing, before coming to the market or putting software near a customers vehicle.

The files for CREC are all available now, and passed to marketing for write up and release, hence not yet on the website.
 
@pez81 - OK, but you don't have the same 'box as me so the situation is different...
 
Revo Steve-W said:
The CREC already has a smaller stock pulley from factory, and as I said sees similar results to 1+ on previous 3.0TFSi.
Click to expand...
Not by much. Mine measures 62.9mm by my el-cheapo Lidl digital micrometer (stock is 63.25). That's just over 0.5% difference...
 
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Full CREC release, please click link -

https://www.revotechnik.com/product-details/software/audi/s5/321/stage-1

STAGE 1 PERFORMANCE SOFTWARE
All Revo performance Software is designed to safely enhance the driveability of your vehicle, giving access to more power and torque throughout the rev range while maintaining the extensive factory safety mechanisms. Although Revo offers some of the most substantial performance increases on the market, peak figures form part of a much bigger picture and are never the sole focus during development. Revo Software offers a perfect balance of performance, economy, longevity and safety.


3.0 TFSI CREC ENGINE
Revo believes in data-logging on the road and racetrack as well as testing in controlled dyno conditions, to give you a clearer picture of the performance you can expect. This plays an important role in the Revo development process, ensuring the highest quality products that perform where and when it matters most. Revo is able to test their products extensively through a global network of dealers, allowing for variance in atmospheric conditions, altitude and fuel quality. Testing products in this way are paramount to ensuring that along with more useable power and torque comes refined driveability, something often overlooked.

We knew Stage 1 would really bring the car to life; by utilising the hardware’s full potential and integrating additional safety features such as Temperature Control which actively monitor oil, intake and exhaust temperatures and reduce power if they get too high, you can rest assured that your vehicle is able to take all you can throw at it.



SOFTWARE FEATURES
RPM_Limit_Increase_100x100.png

RPM LIMIT INCREASE
RPM Limit has been increased for optimal performance
Temperature-Protection-100x100.png

TEMPERATURE PROTECTION
Enhanced engine cooling and oil temperature management.
Speed_Limit_Unlock-100x100.png

SPEED LIMIT UNLOCK
The top speed limit for this vehicle has been unlocked.


RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT
Testing facilities at their UK Headquarters, as well as a track office at Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground. Revo is able to test their products extensively on and off track. Testing products in this way are paramount to ensuring that along with more useable power and torque comes refined drive-ability, something often overlooked.


ON-ROAD TESTING
Testing on a dyno will only ever tell part of the story. Revo believes in data-logging on the road and racetrack as well as testing in controlled dyno conditions, to give you a clearer picture of the performance you can expect. This plays an important role in the Revo development process, ensuring the highest quality products that perform where and when it matters most.


DEVELOPMENT VEHICLES
Access to vehicles is imperative to development and testing. Revo runs one of the most extensive fleets in the industry, and have access to hundreds of other beta vehicles via a global Authorised Dealer Network. These vehicles not only demonstrates what is capable using Revo products, which cover thousands of miles in a multitude of climates, but also ensures that vehicles perform in any scenario, from a trip to the local shops to an epic adventure in the Alps.





POWER GRAPHS
3_0_TFSI_CREC_Power_Graph.png

3_0_TFSI_CREC_Torque_Graph.png





THE REVO DIFFERENCE
OBD_Port_Install-100x100.png

OBD PORT INSTALL
Revo Software can be installed quickly and safely via the OBD Port without the need to open the ECU.
Money_Back_Guarantee-100x100.png

MONEY BACK GUARANTEE
We know you'll love how Revo Software transforms your car. If you don't, we'll give you your money back.
Fuel_Economy-100x100.png

FUEL ECONOMY
Dependant on your driving style, this software will deliver like for like fuel economy in 'normal' driving conditions.
 
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Full S-Tronic Release -

https://www.revotechnik.com/product-details/software/audi/s5/321/s-tronic-stage-1

REVO TCU SOFTWARE
STAGE 1
The DL501 S-Tronic is an electronically controlled dual-clutch gearbox that offers much faster gear changes. The dual clutch allows gears to change instantaneously without losing boost. Improved engine performance from Revo ECU Software means that the stock shift points do not give you the maximum potential that your car has to offer.

Revo Transmission Control Unit (TCU) Software ensures your gearbox works in harmony with Revo ECU Software to give you access to even more power. Only The Driven know that quicker gear changes and extended rev-ranges mean more exhilarating power, and as with all Revo Software, you won’t have to compromise on day-to-day driveability.

DL501 S-TRONIC GEARBOX
Revo TCU Software offers improved response and optimised shift points but maintains the characteristics of Drive and Sports mode. Manual mode now gives you more control by disabling the automatic kick down feature, unlike drive mode where if you plant your foot the gears automatically kick down, allowing you to select the gear you want and make the most of the increased torque from Revo ECU software. Automatic upshift is still active all in modes to offer the best performance and safety for your engine, whilst Dynamic Launch Control allows you to launch at various RPM points depending on your throttle position, improving your 0-60mph times.

The results of extensive development through our Global Development Programme. This Software has been tested in countries from South Africa, Brazil and America to Australia, South Korea, Russia and Germany giving us invaluable data from a wide variety of driving styles and conditions. This ensures the unrivalled quality and performance you demand.



SOFTWARE FEATURES
Launch_Control.png

DYNAMIC LAUNCH CONTROL
Variable RPM launch control via throttle position
Global_Testing.png

GLOBAL DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM
Extensively tested through our development program
OBD_port.png

OBD INSTALL
Revo Software can be installed quickly and safely via the OBD Port




TECHNICAL DATA

Revo Transmission Stage 1 Software has been designed to work with Revo Stage 1 ECU Software. Calibrated for the DL501 S-Tronic gearbox.

  • Launch Control variable RPM
  • At 0-50% throttle launch RPM is 3300
  • At 50-75% throttle launch RPM is 3800
  • At over 75% throttle launch RPM is 4000
  • Distinguishable driving characteristics between modes
  • In Drive Mode the Up/Downshift maps remain very similar to stock on light and partial throttle but the upshift point at full throttle has been increased to 6950rpm to match the optimal power point of the Revo ECU Software. Increasing the smoothness of the transmission with the benefit of having quicker shift speeds with a more intuitive gear selection all provide an improved driving experience.
  • In Sport Mode the Up/Downshift maps are calibrated for sportier and progression driving. Upshift points at full throttle have been also been raised to 6950rpm with the smoothness and shift speeds being increased, the downshift maps have increased RPM points which helps keep the engine in it best performance range.
  • Removed 'Kickdown' in Manual mode
  • Optimised shift speeds
© Revo Technik
 
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pez81 said:
DL501 so pretty similar between s6 and s4
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But the TCU maps are likely to be different since the rest of the transmission is different.

arad85 said:
Not by much. Mine measures 62.9mm by my el-cheapo Lidl digital micrometer (stock is 63.25). That's just over 0.5% difference...
Click to expand...
That matches my more imprecise attempt to measure mine on the car, but I was fairly sure it was close to 63mm.
@Revo Steve-W - what measurement did you guys get?
 
I've asked a few times to Revo accredited tuners and never got a straight answer.

Why is the cost so punishing going from standard to 1+?

I would have no need for the stage one software, as I would be needing the 1+ software and pulley etc. I don't see how I need to therefore pay for something I'm not purchasing. Its all sold as an upgrade from stage 1, however i'd rather go straight to the top without the associated costs.

I understand the mentality of getting stuff done stepby step but would rather get what I'm wanting to achieve immediately without a £2K tag
 
The intrinsic "cost" of software is $0. It is likely that the stage 1 and stage 1+ software are just different variations of the same thing (after all, you're just spinning the supercharger faster so just have a different amount of air to deal with at any rpm). What you are paying for when you buy software is R&D and wages.

And I speak as a software engineer whose software doesn't get sold but is a must-have to the company I work for to sell its hardware.
 
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FWIW I've done my cost per PS gain comparison, as I alluded to in #154. The results are unique to me because, as well as the remap cost they take into account increase in insurance premium and travel costs to the tuner's location.

In all cases I looked at as a minimum, a TCU and ECU remap plus an aftermarket air intake/filter.

I can get an approx. 34% power gain over stock (to 447PS) at either £8.32 per gained PS, £10.76 per gained PS or £20.03 per gained PS, depending on supplier.

The above, plus a pulley change gets me an approx. 41% power gain over stock (to 470PS) at £15.23 per gained PS.

In the end I went for the £8.32 per PS option and I am very, very happy with it.
 
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HTB said:
FWIW I've done my cost per PS gain comparison, as I alluded to in #154. The results are unique to me because, as well as the remap cost they take into account increase in insurance premium and travel costs to the tuner's location.

In all cases I looked at as a minimum, a TCU and ECU remap plus an aftermarket air intake/filter.

I can get an approx. 34% power gain over stock (to 447PS) at either £8.32 per gained PS, £10.76 per gained PS or £20.03 per gained PS, depending on supplier.

The above, plus a pulley change gets me an approx. 41% power gain over stock (to 470PS) at £15.23 per gained PS.

In the end I went for the £8.32 per PS option and I am very, very happy with it.
Click to expand...


That's some calculations... but if it makes you happy ;)
 
HTB said:
From cheapest to costliest - Revo, MRC, APR
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That's what I'd have guessed TBH... These cars need to be tuned. To put my cards on the table, I managed to get a great deal with APR as I was the UK CREC engine dev. car in April.
 
Revo Steve-W said:
So a CREC, great gains at Stage 1, even more value then!

Enjoy :)
Click to expand...
Yep. 900 quid to go from 333PS to 450PS is a great bang for the buck. Especially when it would have cost me almost double that to get only a further 27PS.

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HTB said:
I was disappointed to find out from Revo today that they only have Stage 1 ECU software for the 2016 CREC SIMOS16 V6 3.0 TFSI engine. They have not yet produced a Stage 1+ remap for sale nor do they have an aftermarket supercharger pulley.

Revo seem to be lagging well behind their competitors such as APR and MRC.

Revo Steve-W, any indication when this might get done?

TIA
Click to expand...


Just to give you an insight into what we've been up to at Revo, along with other projects -

 
Revo Steve-W said:
Just to give you an insight into what we've been up to at Revo, along with other projects -

Click to expand...
either that a4 is running more power than claimed or that s4 is not as fast as claimed. what's up with the a4 beating the s4. amazing work though

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HTB said:
Yep. 900 quid to go from 333PS to 450PS is a great bang for the buck. Especially when it would have cost me almost double that to get only a further 27PS.
Click to expand...
Are those figures measured or assumed? I'm interested to know what your stock figure was, since we don't have much visibility of what the true power from the stock CREC is (I know mine - it was 276/342PS whp/chp at 5440rpm).
 
Dippy said:
Are those figures measured or assumed? I'm interested to know what your stock figure was, since we don't have much visibility of what the true power from the stock CREC is (I know mine - it was 276/342PS whp/chp at 5440rpm).
Click to expand...

Dippy said:
I'm interested to know what your stock figure was
Click to expand...

My 'before' @engine was 343PS @5400rpm but that was with the aftermarket intake hose/air filter already fitted.

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From a "bragging rights" point of view, I'm at a disadvantage. When I went for my stage one, the dyno produced before and after figures of 306bhp and 353bhp respectively. It took the combined expertise and wisdom of @Dippy and @Tashfeen to analyse the circumstances (a dyno with a reputation for under-reading, a temperature on the day of 28C and a clogged air filter-the latter easily remedied) and reassure me that the real figures were probably about 12% higher. The other thing that helped was the noticeable improvement in pick up at every point in the rev range. And that's what really matters.

Man, I love this car! :)
 
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I got a 25% off voucher recently, wasn't sure whether or not I would use it but having read this thread i'm tempted.

I'd be wanting to go to stage 1 on power & would be tempted to get the box done at the same time. Website seems to suggest the cost would be £1000, so would the 25% apply to both, meaning £750 all in? (2010 B8 S4)

Also when you book in how long does it take, do you need to leave the car? Not sure any dealers are that near to me in Epsom in Surrey. Is the 0% finance still available, and over what period?

Cheers all,

Russ
 
Russboy said:
I got a 25% off voucher recently, wasn't sure whether or not I would use it but having read this thread i'm tempted.

I'd be wanting to go to stage 1 on power & would be tempted to get the box done at the same time. Website seems to suggest the cost would be £1000, so would the 25% apply to both, meaning £750 all in? (2010 B8 S4)
Click to expand...

Don’t know tbh.

Russboy said:
Also when you book in how long does it take, do you need to leave the car? Not sure any dealers are that near to me in Epsom in Surrey. Is the 0% finance still available, and over what period?

Cheers all,

Russ
Click to expand...

Dealers around Epsom could be found using the below link:

http://www.revotechnik.com/dealer-locator





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I've messaged Revo Steve direct on the questions.

Their website isn't that great, lets you find a dealership but you cant seem to go any further than that.
 
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You have to contact the dealers directly for a price. I ended up using my voucher at ADS preston and going stage 1+ with TCU tune and its the best set of mods I have made to any car, the thing fly's now!
 
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Yeah i've been in touch with 2 local places, has to be booked in & the work done by the 22nd, not going to manage that so looking elsewhere now :-(
 
Ah right I thought it was by the 31st but I guess that its the 22nd because places aren't open between christmas and new year?
 
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