Interesting reading on Carbon Cleaning

Bit sad to go through all that trouble just to say it "may not" do something, the negatives (and I wouldn't say there really are any) are clearly being exaggerated here and I feel sorry for the poor bloke who had to change his marketing because someone felt the need to prove a point. I can think of far more misleading products/services that get overlooked.
 
That one person may have worked for a competitor product! However if it's misleading then the add should be stopped. I would like to see a before & after of the internal engine parts to see how well some of these carbon cleaning products actually do.
 
B5NUT said:
That one person may have worked for a competitor product! However if it's misleading then the add should be stopped. I would like to see a before & after of the internal engine parts to see how well some of these carbon cleaning products actually do.
Click to expand...

Quite interesting,
 
That RS4 is well down on power it should be around 415-420, something else is wrong with that car. Also on that video I did not see the before dyno results.
 
B5NUT said:
That RS4 is well down on power it should be around 415-420, something else is wrong with that car. Also on that video I did not see the before dyno results.
Click to expand...

The before/after gain seems reasonable, B7 RS4's are notorious for loosing power due to carbon build up, fair enough if you don't believe this specific example and it is a fair bit down on power from the get go but allot of people get these cars cleaned with positive results (including dyno print out and internal pictures/videos in many cases).
 
The thing i never can understand, You get a load of people on a forum, who have not tried this tech out for themselves, watch a few youtube videos and become experts on a subject they actually have no 1st hand know how on and then just repeat what ever everyone else says jsut so they fit in,

Carbon Cleaning does work, if you get it done by a machine that costs more than a cheap set of tyres and was not built on fred shed by bits purchased off ebay or china's finest parts and crammed into a tool box looking devise,

The results do range some from car to car, it all comes down to, where the fuel that the cars been run on comes from, I.E Tescos or Shell, the way the cars been driven, how often the oils have been changed and what oils have been used, also the MAF sensors play a big part to, if the cars got an old duffer in it then that will affect the rev range during the clean,

Now how do i know all this stuff ? Ive performed over 500+ carbon cleans over the last year and a bit, Ive got a very expensive hydrogen producing machine that is computer chip regulated, built in Germany and is CE certified, I got my machine for my own use, but the word soon got out and my mates all wanted a free go, there friends of friends wanted a free go, until i decided to get a small business running and earn a few honest £'s out of it, now that little business has grown into a tidy little monster, I run my business on recommendation and referrals, Ive even had to get a facebook page and a web site, Ive never had a person say they had not enjoyed the effect of the carbon clean, yes it makes the car run smoother, quieter and have more poke, how much poke ? i don't know, only the owner of that car will know, he/she would feel it as they drive the car regular, not me, saving on fuel, my personally experience is this, my Berlingo van starts better, runs better, gets up to speed faster, and i don't seem to go to the fuel station as much as i used to,

Now back to the lad in question, Matt, yes I've spoken to him on the phone when we was shopping for a machine, nice guy, does sell it well, his machines are from france, so he claims, I did not get one from him based upon the cost of the machine and he wanted me to get into bed with his company and form a franchise deal, that was not on my agenda, far far from it, £11k far from it,

So without breaking the forum rules, i wont plug my web site or the name I'm using, but all i will say is that i only charge what i feel is a fair enough price for people to try it out 1st, test drive their cars, if they like what I've done, then they pay me, simples, and yes, ive done plenty of Audi's to know how they react,

Peace be the journey,

Turkster,
 
  • Like
Reactions: TonyH38 and QuattroCalum
I have no doubt that this does work the biggest problem is people won’t or can’t believe something until they’ve seen it for themselves. Therein lies the problem, it’s difficult to see the results even with a borescope (usually poor definition)
What I would like to see or if I provided this service, is a car with the cylinder head removed prior to treatment, video/photos taken of condition. Have the head replaced, run the carbon cleaning process then remove the head again for comparison. I realise this would need a little cash outlay but I think it would pay itself back quickly when people can see properly what the process actually does.
I realise it would be easy to fake the results but if it’s 100% clean you’re going to know it’s been decoked “the old school way”
Poor fuel quality and pcv systems contribute to the problem as does poor servicing and irregular oil changes, don’t get me wrong the best serviced car in the world will still have carbon deposits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: TonyH38
QuattroCalum said:
I have no doubt that this does work the biggest problem is people won’t or can’t believe something until they’ve seen it for themselves. Therein lies the problem, it’s difficult to see the results even with a borescope (usually poor definition)
What I would like to see or if I provided this service, is a car with the cylinder head removed prior to treatment, video/photos taken of condition. Have the head replaced, run the carbon cleaning process then remove the head again for comparison. I realise this would need a little cash outlay but I think it would pay itself back quickly when people can see properly what the process actually does.
I realise it would be easy to fake the results but if it’s 100% clean you’re going to know it’s been decoked “the old school way”
Poor fuel quality and pcv systems contribute to the problem as does poor servicing and irregular oil changes, don’t get me wrong the best serviced car in the world will still have carbon deposits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Yes, I hear what your saying, but TBH I dont know anyone who after carbon cleaning feels the need to do that, every carbon clean ive performed, and ive done more than enough now to know the signs of of a good clean from the engine sounds and the way the exhaust smokes and what comes out of it,

let me put it this way, 2 weeks ago, a rather skeptic Audi Main Dealer Service Manager let me do it to his B5 in the Audi Main Dealer storage yard in full view of the staff,

He has noticed the difference a Carbon Clean does and has
 
QuattroCalum said:
I have no doubt that this does work the biggest problem is people won’t or can’t believe something until they’ve seen it for themselves. Therein lies the problem, it’s difficult to see the results even with a borescope (usually poor definition)
What I would like to see or if I provided this service, is a car with the cylinder head removed prior to treatment, video/photos taken of condition. Have the head replaced, run the carbon cleaning process then remove the head again for comparison. I realise this would need a little cash outlay but I think it would pay itself back quickly when people can see properly what the process actually does.
I realise it would be easy to fake the results but if it’s 100% clean you’re going to know it’s been decoked “the old school way”
Poor fuel quality and pcv systems contribute to the problem as does poor servicing and irregular oil changes, don’t get me wrong the best serviced car in the world will still have carbon deposits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Yes, I hear what your saying, but TBH I dont know anyone who after carbon cleaning feels the need to do that, every carbon clean ive performed, and ive done more than enough now to know the signs of of a good clean from the engine sounds and the way the exhaust smokes and what comes out of it,

let me put it this way, 2 weeks ago, a rather skeptic Audi Main Dealer Service Manager let me do it to his B5 in the Audi Main Dealer storage yard in full view of the staff,

He has noticed the difference a Carbon Clean does and has defended the service to a complete stranger live on my FaceBook page un-prompted,

Give me a shout if your ever passing by Northampton and I'd gladly give you a go on the machine,

Paul
 
IMG 9545 IMG 9630 IMG 9650
 
It’s more of a problem on newer cars with direct injection, no fuel to wash the valves on the way in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Carbon cleaning does work, absolutely.

But NOT hydrogen carbon cleaning. It is a crock of ****. I tested it on my B7 RS4 at a dyno facility, and on my wife's golf gti (which I also borescoped before and after) and there's an extensive thread on the topic on the RS246 forum. I'll dig it up and post it here - good reading for anyone considering it.

Here's the video I made, make sure to read the comment too. I had MRC tuning take the head off after the "clean" and it was still full of carbon, but worse than that it was a gooey mess that had started clogging up hoses!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: voorhees
FaisalJ said:
Carbon cleaning does work, absolutely.

But NOT hydrogen carbon cleaning. It is a crock of ****. I tested it on my B7 RS4 at a dyno facility, and on my wife's golf gti (which I also borescoped before and after) and there's an extensive thread on the topic on the RS246 forum. I'll dig it up and post it here - good reading for anyone considering it.

Here's the video I made, make sure to read the comment too. I had MRC tuning take the head off after the "clean" and it was still full of carbon, but worse than that it was a gooey mess that had started clogging up hoses!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


The only way the intakes are going to get cleaned properly is by taking them off and doing it manually. Any advantage of direct injection is lost as soon as the carbon builds up on the intakes, catch 22 situation really.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Turkster said:
Yes, I hear what your saying, but TBH I dont know anyone who after carbon cleaning feels the need to do that, every carbon clean ive performed, and ive done more than enough now to know the signs of of a good clean from the engine sounds and the way the exhaust smokes and what comes out of it,

let me put it this way, 2 weeks ago, a rather skeptic Audi Main Dealer Service Manager let me do it to his B5 in the Audi Main Dealer storage yard in full view of the staff,

He has noticed the difference a Carbon Clean does and has defended the service to a complete stranger live on my FaceBook page un-prompted,

Give me a shout if your ever passing by Northampton and I'd gladly give you a go on the machine,

Paul
Click to expand...

I meant to do this on one car and it could be filmed and documented for anyone unsure if they wanted it done or not. A quick watch would help them in the right direction (hopefully) after they had seen the actual results, not poxy borescope photos/videos.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
QuattroCalum said:
I meant to do this on one car and it could be filmed and documented for anyone unsure if they wanted it done or not. A quick watch would help them in the right direction (hopefully) after they had seen the actual results, not poxy borescope photos/videos.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I take it you haven't watched my vid and read the thread? It's all been pretty comprehensively tested, documented and proven to be bogus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
How do you expect a product that is introduced to the fuel system to clean the inlet side when it’s direct injection, ie straight into the combustion chamber.
You couldn’t brush your teeth until you put the brush in your mouth, same principle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
QuattroCalum said:
How do you expect a product that is introduced to the fuel system to clean the inlet side when it’s direct injection, ie straight into the combustion chamber.
You couldn’t brush your teeth until you put the brush in your mouth, same principle.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hope that wasn't directed at me - as we're saying the same thing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ha, ok to clarify then, for anyone else confused...

Carbon cleaning is a temporary measure to clear out the buildup in the intake manifold of direct injection cars (I.e. Pre combustion). This is an issue that mainly affects normally aspirated direct injection cars such as the Audi RS4 B7, which can lose 50hp because of carbon buildup. Turbo cars lose much less power.

I say it is a temporary measure, as it'll start coming back immediately. You can keep it at bay, supposedly, by getting intake air flow speeds up as often as you can. Otherwise known as "an Italian tune". Otherwise known as taking your car for a frequent thrash!

In terms of cleaning, there are 2 popular methods.

1. Take the inlet manifold off, and clear the carbon by hand or walnut blast. This 100% works, but is expensive due to the labour involved. MRC tuning in Banbury (probably the most trusted for this job with Audi RS owners) charge £500-£800 depending on the severity of buildup.

2. "Hydrogen cleaning", performed by some bloke with a van, a black box of tricks (probably just a water tank), and some outlandish claims - for about 10% of the cost of an actual clean. As per my previous posts - this is a waste of time and money. Any "improvement" cited is due to a) the Italian tuning effect of the car being revved vigorously during the "cleaning" process, and b) (my theory) the extra-hot combustion from introducing hydrogen and oxygen to combustion, which may clear some contaminants from the combustion chamber downstream (hence the black soot out of the exhaust).

There you have it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Turkster said:
When you have had one done, come back and talk sense to me, otherwise your just talking from other peoples versions of what there take on the truth is,
far too many keyboard experts here nowadays and repeaters of youtube experts.
Click to expand...

I have. You haven't been paying attention.

Go read my earlier post, the extensive thread I created on RS246, the video, the dyno tests before and after the hydrogen "clean", the borescope images, the images of the intake manifold after the clean, the dyno test after the proper clean etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: voorhees
Let's keep it friendly guys, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it's not worth falling out over. It could be FaisalJ, that the operator maybe wasn't up to par with the equipment job/whatever and you've had a bad experience but it's like everything else, you get people that are good at their job and do it well and others that aren't and don't give a s***.
 
QuattroCalum said:
Let's keep it friendly guys, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, it's not worth falling out over. It could be FaisalJ, that the operator maybe wasn't up to par with the equipment job/whatever and you've had a bad experience but it's like everything else, you get people that are good at their job and do it well and others that aren't and don't give a s***.
Click to expand...

I'm not looking to start an argument, but I also don't want anyone getting fleeced. I have presented the facts of my testing, dyno plots, borescope images, and findings when the head was removed and cleaned manually (+44hp after a proper clean). If people take issue with my results or tests, that's ok, at least I've tried to save people from throwing away their money.

The operator was the owner of EngineCarbonClean - one of the largest hydrogen carbon cleaning outfits. He was well aware the purpose of the clean was a before and after test, and publication online - so was incentivised to do a good job.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Looked through the thread even though I didn't want to trail through 9 pages but I didn't see pictures of the head removed, intake yes, head no, did I miss it Faisalj?
 
QuattroCalum said:
Looked through the thread even though I didn't want to trail through 9 pages but I didn't see pictures of the head removed, intake yes, head no, did I miss it Faisalj?
Click to expand...

Yep - they're in there, near the end somewhere. I'll dig them up and post here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ok here we go.

So this is what my inlet manifold looked like when it was taken off, after the hydrogen clean. MRC commented on the fact there was oily gunk everywhere, which was unusual, and I needed a new breather pipe as it had become clogged - they think this was due to the hydrogen clean.

As you can see, the manifold was full of carbon! It's not as if that had built up over an exceptionally long period of time either - the car had been manually cleaned a year prior by AMD.

a62177e73eccee8d2a44d9021a931905.jpg


d8e96801f255fe643218369333f64c76.jpg


5e13fd800f153cb445fe5eeedb772a93.jpg


437cc03e832746f4cdf77bb983671d30.jpg


fd6f14e9b87e03807aa3c3c877f48179.jpg


This is the result of MRC doing the job properly; +44ps when it was ACTUALLY cleaned:

6d951657655933ce967076a0ef8540a7.jpg


b65ef38b32aeed1486f5a2fcc0a4bf57.jpg


6697a23ee9408d583a45c5de354d4426.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
To be fair most things done "old school" work better than new fangled technology does but it's also far more labour intensive. Moral of the story you only get out of it what you put into it.
Kind of a backward step but if there could be small secondary/primary injectors in the inlet manifold to keep that clean and the (main) injector duty cycle backed off a bit to keep fuelling right, that would work.
 
The thing I've been pondering is whether water methanol injection would help, by "washing" the inlet valves in the same way the fuel/air mixture does in a non-FSI engine.

I'm all for new tech. As long as it works


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
FaisalJ said:
The thing I've been pondering is whether water methanol injection would help, by "washing" the inlet valves in the same way the fuel/air mixture does in a non-FSI engine.

I'm all for new tech. As long as it works


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yeah I hear you but direct injection works but not well with positive crankcase ventilation gasses. A catch can which is then piped to a flange on the exhaust (after the cat) would draw the gasses out of the engine rather than back to the inlet.
 
QuattroCalum said:
Yeah I hear you but direct injection works but not well with positive crankcase ventilation gasses. A catch can which is then piped to a flange on the exhaust (after the cat) would draw the gasses out of the engine rather than back to the inlet.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for other engines, but the catch can idea has proved ineffective on the 4.2 V8 by those owners that have tried it.

My "new tech not working" comment was directed at hydrogen cleaning, not direct injection, by the way.

Actually- there is one other solution. Introducing forced induction! Carbon buildup becomes less of an issue once you strap a supercharger to the V8 haha! Bit expensive at £15k, but then you do have the added bonus of 600hp under your right foot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Must be because of the displacement I think, it's moving so much air, anyone tried venting to atmosphere?
Yeah I know, mine was just the flip side side of that.
Hmmm, twin turbos would be more fun.
 
My manifold was taken off and set on fire, far more satisfying :rockwoot:

Tempted to clean the rest of the engine/bits...
 
Have a look through the thread and tell me what car was subject to the before and after dyno run.
It’s an aluminium inlet not a chunk of cast iron.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Stratts
Interesting Audi Artricle on Autocar.co.uk
Replies
0
Views
831
Stratts
Stratts
S
Audi servicing and carbon build up cleaning in Essex ...
Replies
0
Views
671
Stuno1
S
M
  • Locked
APR Vs. Revo - interesting reading
Replies
55
Views
4K
Other Brands & Models
Paul-RS6
Paul-RS6
Alistair D
Interesting B5 RS4
Replies
1
Views
841
rodelthon
R
B
Luxury car thieves caught, interesting insight on how they did it
Replies
2
Views
974
Alonso8100
A
Top
Back