Good luck if your car is currently at sheerness !

They are happy to use fossil fuel burning engines in their RIBS and heavy oil in their larger vessels...............When will they go all electric?
 
no fuel is good.... not even electricity for cars (gotta generate it ), but diesel is turning out to be clearly a long term health disaster. Interesting that in US, clean air act in say CA pretty much ensures Diesel cannot be viable, since emission standards are so high. Many people got diesels as they thought they were doing the right thing on co2, but it’s another case of politicians and industry not being clear with the public..
 
Have they actually managed to achieve anything? Have they caused any damage to any vehicles or any significant delay?
 
Digibob said:
They are happy to use fossil fuel burning engines in their RIBS and heavy oil in their larger vessels...............When will they go all electric?
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All these types of groups are hypocritical. Just like how PETA kill a huge percentage of the animals they rescue.
 
These Greenhelmet numpties have got it all wrong , they're Euro 6 , *** .

What about the mechanical bonfire I saw the other day in the form of a H reg Defender that won't even be Euro 1 , they should car jack these .
 
Euro6 whilst a good step, doesn’t in itself mean car is clean. Consider that for years the euro standards are heavily influenced by car industry in Germany in favour of auto makers .. it’s why they don’t reflect real driving .. look at all the cheat tactics VW group got caught out with... until we have real world emissions test, it’s window dressing. I had a euro 6 Bmw diesel and was horrified when the real world tests showed the particulate was higher than most others in its class.....worse than some euro 5... all current cars are tested in perfect conditions for the car ( chambers at perfect temp, humidity, pressure etc) to show car in the best light and manipulate emissions.
Can pour scorn on direct action , but without it, nobody keeps the auto makers ( or other industries) accountable. No organisations are perfect, pressure groups included .. but I think on balance, it’s better we have them .
 
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My car is on its way there but I don't think it has yet.

I think VAG deserve it to be honest, its the least they should receive. They have lied and threatened the health of people, I know these cars are euro 6 and hopefully don't have any cheat software, but how do we know? it took years for it to come out on the euro5's.

If this had been a small firm Europe would have thrown the book at them.

I honestly thought twice about buying the car due to what VAG did, but the car was so nice and buying a petrol helped ease it a little!
 
Gazwould said:
I guess you're referring to NOx regarding real world .
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Yep.... and I’m not being holier than though as a petrol driver, I guess my car puts out benzine .. not nice either... but particulate (particularly sub micron) that is much more prevelant in Diesel is current major health concern , especially in towns and cities and close to main roads (I think as you move 5 to 10 m away from road, pollution drops fast)... research shows it’s paricularly bad for kids... gas boilers also not great .. our society burns energy, no escape from that.,,
 
My car is supposed to be on the boat at the moment - if these self-righteous hippies have delayed it (or worse, taken the keys) I will be beyond mad.

What does their own Rainbow Warrier boat run on, incidentally? Unicorn farts?
 
Diesels are dirty, I have one but it will be my last. This is especially the case if you live in a built up area.
The government have done precious little to deal with air pollution and particulates for years.
Its a bit rich blaming the car companies when governments pushed diesels as they reduce co2 at the expense of air quality.

Also Euro 6 compliance assumes the car is being used in ideal conditions in the warm up phase emissions far exceed targets.
 
All this talk of how dirty they are and how much particulate they put out but my last A4 was the 3.0 diesel and the tailpipes stayed clean all the time, versus the S4 that are dirty in a few days! I know that it's likely a different type of deposit but my point is that the DPF in my car appeared to catch far more crap than the petrols appear to put out.
 
A dpf is there to catch carcinogenic diesel paticulates that a petrol engine does not put out, stains on a petrol engined tailpipe are not the same and are probably only carbon deposits. Don't worry as soon dpf's will also be coming to a petrol engine near you, if not already http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volksw...add-particulate-filters-to-its-petrol-engines Although I don't know if it'll make tailpipes any cleaner.
It is also untrue that any VW diesel engines are dirtier than any other manufacturers, it is just that VW were lying about theirs...
 
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cuke2u said:
A dpf is there to catch carcinogenic diesel paticulates that a petrol engine does not put out, stains on a petrol engined tailpipe are not the same and are probably only carbon deposits. Don't worry as soon dpf's will also be coming to a petrol engine near you, if not already http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volksw...add-particulate-filters-to-its-petrol-engines Although I don't know if it'll make tailpipes any cleaner.
It is also untrue that any VW diesel engines are dirtier than any other manufacturers, it is just that VW were lying about theirs...
Click to expand...

As I said, I realise that they're different outputs between the petrol and diesel cars but my point is that clearly there's physically more particulate coming out of petrol cars versus diesel cars with the newest versions? Otherwise both tailpipes would be nice and clean all the time surely. So I don't really believe this whole 'diesels are super dirty' stuff. I agree they put out more NOx, but overall at this point I don't see them being any better or worse than a petrol engine. Except in fuel economy where they're still better...
 
Daggerit said:
As I said, I realise that they're different outputs between the petrol and diesel cars but my point is that clearly there's physically more particulate coming out of petrol cars versus diesel cars with the newest versions? Otherwise both tailpipes would be nice and clean all the time surely. So I don't really believe this whole 'diesels are super dirty' stuff. I agree they put out more NOx, but overall at this point I don't see them being any better or worse than a petrol engine. Except in fuel economy where they're still better...
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It’s the particles you can see that you need to be worried about .. sub micron.. and too small for DPF to filter....
 
Nham68 said:
It’s the particles you can see that you need to be worried about .. sub micron.. and too small for DPF to filter....
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Fair enough! Does that make them that much more dangerous to health than an equivalent petrol car though? I don't know...

I definitely agree that the older diesel models are properly bad for it though!
 
I thought a lot about the fuel type for my next car, but being out in the countryside with 30k miles a year left me not much option but diesel. Still, I'm glad we have the kinds of pressure groups that have brought the air pollution issue to the front of politicians agenda now.

There's a lot of people protest about stuff I don't agree with as well, but I guess without people like that we'd all still be stuck on the land working for some titled Rupert or whatever instead of wasting time with nice cars :)
 
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Greenpeace won't know if they are diesels or not that are on that ship, they also won't just be VW's there will be a few manufactures on board.

Wonder how the protesters got to the port in the first place, bet they didn't walk.....

Also love the fact they think the ship is owned by VW
 
B5NUT said:
Greenpeace won't know if they are diesels or not that are on that ship, they also won't just be VW's there will be a few manufactures on board.

Wonder how the protesters got to the port in the first place, bet they didn't walk.....
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That's what does my nut in. They're motoring towards these big ships in petrol (probably 2 stroke so even worse than a diesel) powered ribs and stopping a ship from docking and turning it's engine off. Both causing excess pollution that could've been avoided.

Climbing with ropes made of nylon, wearing waterproof clothing, plastic helmets, charging their phones/radios from fossil fuel generated electricity... The list of hypocrisy goes on and on for me.
 
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B5NUT said:
Greenpeace won't know if they are diesels or not that are on that ship, they also won't just be VW's there will be a few manufactures on board.

Wonder how the protesters got to the port in the first place, bet they didn't walk.....

Also love the fact they think the ship is owned by VW
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According to Kent Online (or at least a commenter or it, so take with very large pinch of environmentally-friendly salt substitute), they all got back on a large, diesel-powered coach and were driven off...
 
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Daggerit said:
Fair enough! Does that make them that much more dangerous to health than an equivalent petrol car though? I don't know...

I definitely agree that the older diesel models are properly bad for it though!
Click to expand...
They wouldn't be fitting dpf's to petrol engines if the particulates were safe, and, as stated, it is the ones you don't see that are the most dangerous as they are small enough to pass through solid objects. However it still is carbon that is causing your tailpipes to stain as petrol engines run hotter.
Diesel engines are considered to be of the Group 1 carcinogens. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust
 
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Daggerit said:
Fair enough! Does that make them that much more dangerous to health than an equivalent petrol car though? I don't know...

I definitely agree that the older diesel models are properly bad for it though!
Click to expand...

Yes, even new euro 6 have sub micron particles. Petrol doesn’t. There is lots of public research on it ...
 
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audi upgrades
Then on top when the batteries die and they don't get replaced because of the extreme cost the car runs around just using the engine with the weight of the dead batteries .
 
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CO2 is a very different and real problem... if you buy a hybrid, you’re really just moving the co2 emissions to somewhere else..... a better longer term solution I think would have been hydrogen fuel cells.. but that requires infrastructure that cash strapped governments can’t afford ...
 
What about this 2040 electric vehicle infrastructure ?

Hydrogen is the best answer , but they don't want to completely solve problems only max out the profit and tax potential of previous technologies .
 
There is a simple reason why plug in hybrids fare badly in business surveys, they are often chosen because of their low BIK costs, fuel is paid for by the company, there is no incentive to charge on their home electricity. It has nothing to do with the technology it is about poorly thought out incentives and human behaviour. I have a VW Golf GTE and we average over 100 mpg. The actual mpg is determined by the mix of journeys more short journeys increases the mpg. The last tankful did 1250 miles at 170mpg.

Looking ahead to 2020 the BIK for a fully electric vehicle is reducing to 2% from the current 13% so it not difficult to see what vehicles most of the company car drivers are going to move to. And if you need convincing about electric vehicles go and test drive a Tesla.
 
hmy7k said:
There is a simple reason why plug in hybrids fare badly in business surveys, they are often chosen because of their low BIK costs, fuel is paid for by the company, there is no incentive to charge on their home electricity. It has nothing to do with the technology it is about poorly thought out incentives and human behaviour. I have a VW Golf GTE and we average over 100 mpg. The actual mpg is determined by the mix of journeys more short journeys increases the mpg. The last tankful did 1250 miles at 170mpg.

Looking ahead to 2020 the BIK for a fully electric vehicle is reducing to 2% from the current 13% so it not difficult to see what vehicles most of the company car drivers are going to move to. And if you need convincing about electric vehicles go and test drive a Tesla.
Click to expand...

That ignores the issue that we burn fossil fuels to get the electricity ... it’s just displacement. LiIon cells also take huge amount of energy to produce... and as yet, are not widely recycled.... though I would expect that can be developed. Cost of lithium and cobalt and some of the rare earth minerals used might make it expensive too...
 
Currently 25% of electricity comes from renewables and that has doubled in the past 3 years.
Offshore wind is now cheaper than new nuclear capacity.

Hydrogen is produced using energy from somewhere be it fossil fuels or renewables and it is expensive and difficult to store.
Maybe one day Hydrogen will get there but its a long way off.

Batteries are also a very useful means of storing off peak electricity and with smart grids and meters this will improve the use of energy.
 
Hydrogen is absolutely not the answer for ordinary cars - the energy needed to create hydrogen either from electrolysis of water or by cracking hydrocarbons is immense, making the creation of hydrogen very inefficient when it is to be used to power cars and could be better used to generate electricity to power batteries (currently lithium-ion) but future battery tech and chemistries will store more charge in a smaller, lighter, more energy dense size
 
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