Oil temperature higher and idle tick

PaulJC84

PaulJC84

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Taken the car on its first decent run in years yesterday. Edinburgh to Plockton and then up to Applecross and back to Plockton.

If my memory correct I think the normal oil temp is around 90C.

At points on the Applecross Pass the oil was up at 120C and would be mainly around 100C.

Today I noticed on start up the car sounds a bit ticky at idle and low revs on start up. The car was hot and I had the door open.
I am sure under hard boost with the window down the turbo sounds a bit louder too.

Any ideas?

Blocked sump pickup or a gasket leak?
 
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Check the coolant temps, in intake temps and ambient temps. Service history? Oil condition? Water pump condition?
 
I have had the car since 18k and it's almost on 99k now. Oil changed every 5k or year whichever comes first.
Coolant temp stayed at 90C but I know there is a lag on the gauge.
Belts and water pump are due at the end of this year as were done 4.5 years ago. Probably only 10k miles ago max.
 
The rise in oil temp would be from more heat energy in the oil possibly from increased internal frictions due to engine wear. The grade of oil has changed with lighter oils accepting heat more quickly than it can get rid of it meaning the overall temperature remains higher than before. Lastly the heat exchanger, the oil cooler has become furred or blocked up to a degree and can't exchange it's heat as readily to the coolant as it used to and so the oil temperature stays higher than previously. Ambient temperature and loading will also affect this heat exchanging process giving a less of temperature difference for the oil to exchange heat to. This can raise the average temperature level of the oil over a prolonged duration of operation.
 
Actually driving today I think the gauge sender is perhaps faulty. Jumped right up to 140C and I was like oh no. After a minute it fell straight down to 80C in one sweep. Seems to be moving around anywhere from 120C to 80c generally on flat routes.

The ticking seems to be at start up for maybe 5 seconds so will need to see what that is.
Thinking strainer, gasket leak or cam tensioner.
 
Get the vag com on it and it should tell you the proper oil temp.

The rattling could be the cam chain tensioner or the cat on it's way out.
 
Whilst the coolant temp gauge should sit at around 90C, engine manufacturers design (standard) modern engines to run oil temps typically 100C - 120C in order to 1) Drive off potentially harmful internal water vapour caused by the combustion process 2) minimise emissions (a hot engine is a clean burning engine) and 3) to provide maximum lubrication/power as cold engine oil produces "drag". Normal (standard) synthetic engine oils can cope with up to 150C with racing engines requiring something more special.
 
Ah cool. I was sure the oil normally sat around 90C. Just nursing the car home as off boost as possible to hopefully avoid as much damage as possible.
Not had an oil pressure light so pressure hopefully that is ok.
Car seems to tick on start up when cold and then when it's been really hot.
Will get it checked out during the week hopefully.
Think I will check the turbo shaft, oil strainer and scan the car.
 
All my Audis have "ticked" when stationary. Especially heard with window down and parked next to a wall or other stationary car in traffic. I always assumed it was the injectors.
 
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View live coolant temp data using the climate control panel:

Press recirc and up arrow together
display shows 1c
use temp +/- to make it say 49c
Press recirc again.

The display will now show you the live engine temperature.

Could be something like a cracked water pump if it is running hot.
 
Well oil light eventually came on for a second. Pulled in and waiting for a flatbed to take the car to a garage near me.
Hopefully not too much damage has been done!
Engine was ticking louder but not as bad as the ones I have heard on YouTube.
 
If you stopped immediately it'll probably be fine. When i killed my track car engine it beeped two or three times and i kept stopping and then going back out. I had no oil pressure guage and stupidly assumed it was a faulty sensor as i'd replaced the pump already. Third time i got bored of stopping and kept going when the warning came on. A lap later it siezed. Turned out, some hard carbon debris had become detatched from the inside of the engine and made its way into the sump, where it gathered up in the pickup gauze. Despite it siezing, i swapped the turbo onto the replacement engine and it worked fine.

Also, fit a new oil pump, dont just mess with cleaning the strainer. Its such an **** to get into on the B5, its not worth doing half a job.
 
Cheers for the advice guys.

So got the car to a mates garage. Checked the oil level and since yesterday morning it's about half a litre lower.

Put in some oil and one of the mechanics started the car. It tapped for around 3 seconds and then was normal. Was quite smokey though.

Left the car there but I am wondering if it's the turbo. Going to check the shaft for play tomorrow.

Also sounded like the manifold was blowing slightly.

If I need a new turbo I then have to think if I want to change it for a different one but first things first.

So when the sump is off I should get the oil pump replaced as well as the strainer?
 
The turbo wouldnt magically bring on the oil light. Theres without doubt an oil pressure issue, and that means replacing the pump. Theres no point just doing the strainer on a B5. Its a complete **** getting the sump off unlike a transverse engine, so when your in there just do it properly. You also cant buy the strainer on its own for a B5, it comes with the pump.

And its almost always fine when cold. The oils thick and pressure comes up just fine. Half a litre of oil wouldnt matter at all, i've run mine down off the dipstick before with no issues. Even my siezed engine unsiezed itself and ran completely normally when cold. No noises or rattles, if i hadnt known better i'd have thaught it was fine. I fitted an oil pressure guage and while the oil pressure was perfect when cold, once it warmed up the pressure dropped off, and started acting very oddly. Took the sump off and one of the big ends had spun.
 
Ok thanks for the info. I would certainly have replace everything I need to when it's opened up.

Any idea of the part number of the pump and strainer?

Just hope after doing that things are ok and it's not done any other damage.
 
So car has been sitting in the workshop for 3 weeks and garage finally had a quick look at the car.

They whipped the airbox to turbo hose off to have a quick check in there and there was quite a lot of oil. There is a bit of play in the shaft for that as well.

The turbo was sounding a bit louder on boost.

Would it be possible for the oil pressure light to come on if the turbo started drinking lots of oil?

Still planning on getting the sump checked but the garage think its the turbo. Don't really want to fit a new one and it to be damaged if there is another issue.

Also as the turbo is going to need replacing. What is the best option? Hybrid, rebuild, new?
 
Sump, pump and lump.

Just sounded good. Roughly put what Aragon said. Oil pump and strainer.

Turbo will need refurbished. Max end float is 0.2mm absolute max and the tolerance that is recommended is 0.15mm.

Compression test for the block might highlight damage but would it cause anymore damage? Turn the engine by hand to check for rough spots.
 
Thanks, definitely going to get the sump cleared and a new pump.

Spoke to BBT and they no longer do A4 turbos, just A3. Think I will just get a refurbed K03 on it. Euros seem to do them for around £400. Will replace the oil feed and gaskets at the same time.
 
Bore scope will let you inspect the cylinder chambers before you fork out a load I dough. Test the coolant for exhaust as well. Have to go now.
 
Thought I would update this almost a year on.........

So the car was washed and stuck in the garage under a cover, where it sat until 4 weeks ago. I decided I would drain the oil and replace with some fresh stuff and new filter. I always though I used the longer filters but got a transporter one. Gosh those are huge.

I pulled out the oil pressure switch from the oil filter housing and plumbed in a pressure gauge.

I was wanting to see how the oil pressure was as I found it hard to believe my pick up was blocked as the car is serviced every year and was doing under 5k miles a year. Plus it was too big a job for me to do in my garage so though this would rule the pick up being blocked out.

Tested the pressure it at 1k increments and compared my figures to the numbers on various forums.

My figures were at the top of each rev range.

The next weekend I drained the oil and coolant pulled out the airbox, turbo, manifold, intercooler plus all the turbo pipes/hoses.

I was wanting to see if the oil feed was blocked at all but I blew through it and it seems totally clear. I used some brake cleaner to clean it as well. I planned on replacing this but think I will just use an airline to fully blast through it. I also cleaned out the intercooler as it looked to have a little oil in it but not a huge amount.

I bought a lot of T bolt clamps for when I refit the intercooler as the jubilee clips were pretty tired looking and I had wanted to replace them for years.

The turbo shaft had a fair bit of play that I could feel and there were a few cracks in the cast housing but nothing right through.

Plan is now to replace the turbo, all the gaskets and see how the car is. Belts etc are now due too so will get those done at the same time since the bumper is already off.

When I started the car to test the pressure the car was sounding good and it was running for about 40 minutes with no issues other than a bit of smoke which I think will be the turbo on its way out. Mainly on short rev ups and downs.

Only thing I can think has happened is the oil level has gone too low through the turbo seals being past their best.

I have ordered most of the parts I need other than the water pump/belt kit and a turbo plus exhaust/manifold gaskets.
 
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Finally looking at getting a turbo ordered.

Think this is the OEM one
https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...e-turbocharger-for-vag-18t-150bhp-p-2027.html

And this is the later updated one which I think I will get
https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...e-turbocharger-for-vag-18t-150bhp-p-2032.html

The spec sheet has information on a new updated oil feed, is there such a thing as a wider oil feed?
Also mentions a heat shield for the feed. pant no. 058129585B
http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/shop/download/5303-988-0029.pdf

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/heat-shield/058129585b/
 
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Spoke to turbo dynamics today and they want an extra £100 as my turbo is the 005 so they would not take this back as surcharge.

Probably going to have to end up with a like for like unit as don’t really want to pay £740 for the 029 when the 005 is about £200 cheaper.

Also saw some new turbos forsale on eBay by driven2automotive for about £100 less. But never heard of them, whereas know turbo dynamics have been around for ages.
 
I hoped you may give an opinion as I know you have been over the options in the past.

I looked for a BEX turbo as well and they are around £900 from Turbo-Dynamics which I thought was just a bit more than I was hoping to spend.
https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...turbo-for-audi-18t-quattro-190bhp-p-2037.html

I did find the below website (turbo-diesel.co.uk) and they are cheaper (£700) but I am not familiar with this retailer.
https://turbo-diesel.co.uk/product/...b-06b145703bv-audi-a4-bex-k03-new-borgwarner/


The replacement new -005 is £550 which is not too much more expensive than some of the local motorfactor refurbished ones.
https://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/sho...e-turbocharger-for-vag-18t-150bhp-p-2027.html
 
Well had a check I have everything to rebuild yesterday and thought I would check some parts fit together etc.

I have the Neuspeed Xtreme TIP (some pics here https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/neuspeed-xtreme-turbo-intake-pipe.16965/) so was hoping that this would work as it did before.

However the BEX compressor inlet (K03-73) looks to be a tiny but bigger than the K03-005 so the adaptor plate doesnt seem to fit. It was snug on the K03-005 and the K04-15 I had fitted years ago but went on. I measured the inlet and it 45mm on the BEX K03-73 and 44mm on the K03-005.

The other thing is the adaptor retaining holes that bolt the adaptor are lightly further out on the BEX K03-73 than on the K04-15 and K03-005.

I am thinking of getting either just a new silicone TIP or getting the adaptor machined slightly so I can fit it.

I have asked some of the B6 guys if they have ever seen anything like this as the BEX turbo is from that platform.
 
So a little update.

Got the car MOT'd on Monday. Passed.

Was nice to have a drive in the car and used it most of the day doing jobs and did around 40 miles.

Came to pull up slowly in my space and the oil pressure light came on!! Gutted. :sadlike:

Thankfully I was at home.

I am now wondering if its a faulty switch (uncommon I think) as when I checked the pressures in August it was ok, maybe a low at idle and 1000 revs but the switch doesn't work until above 1500 revs.

Here were my numbers from the test from August. (tolerance in brackets)

Idle 12 psi (18-25)
1000 25 psi (20-40)
2000 55 psi (35-50)
3000 65 psi (50-65)


Compared against the tolerance and redid pushing on to 5k

Idle 12 psi
1000 25 psi
2000 60 psi
3000 65 psi
4000 75 psi (55-70)
5000 75 psi (60-75)

All not bad figures I think apart from the idle.


So now thinking I will change the switch but maybe need to bite the bullet and get the sump off to check the strainer and replace the pump.

So frustrating!
 
I'm sorry to hear of your continuing problems BUT

Idle 12 psi (18-25)

I don't know if you have any engineering background but ....... "get the sump off and replace both the strainer and the pump."
 
Oil pressure drops as the oil warms and gets thinner. Check the engine oil and coolant temp.
 
Well with a house move during the year and having other cars to use this ended up sitting from 10th Dec 2018 until the 2nd of Dec 2019........

I thought if I was going to keep the car I better get the strainer and pump replaced. So ordered a pump and planned to do it myself with the help of a friend who is a mechanic but one thing led to another and I decided to just get a local garage to do it. So got the car towed to the garage and they replaced the pump and did an MOT. 70 miles since the last one.

Following replacing the pump hey tested the pressures and they are all up. I have the old pump and strainer as I wanted to see how blocked it was an it is totally clear which was quite a surprise.

I have been using the car since collecting and it seems ok. Slightly nervous about the pressure warning light reappearing but hopefully all should be well now.

I am curious about the oil temperatures again. I remember the oil temp gauge used to move about more than the coolant but how sensitive is it?

I may replace the sump sensor when I do the next oil change just to see if it is faulty as I get the sense it is overly sensitive on my car now.

In the past 18 months this car has had major service, all hose clamps replaced, turbo, gaskets, water pump, oil pump, 4 Michelin CC tyres and battery. Not really been economical maintenance compared to the value of the car but I thought I have owned the car for 16 years now so thought I better give it a new lease of life.
 
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Added a picture to show it has actually been used!
 

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