Knock sensor voltages, help!

Endacy

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Anyone got knock sensor knowledge? I don't and need a bit of help!

I drove hundreds of miles today for a remap and within 5 minutes of getting there I was told cylinders 1 & 2 had excessive knock sensor voltages when revved and mapping wouldnt be worth it until this was rectified for the best results. I've run checks with VCDS myself now and can clearly see that cylinders 1 & 2 have higher voltages by a little at idle and considerably higher when revved to around 2-3k rpm.

It's hard to see just viewing the measuring blocks but a graph of the voltages shows clearly that cylinder 1 spikes very high when revved, cylinder 2 is a little less but still spikes high. Cylinders 3 & 4 are much lower with 3 being above 4 by a bit. Generally 1&2 are high, 3&4 are lower and seem 'normal'. Apparently it was only the voltages of 1&2 that are of concern.

I was informed the problem could be plugs, coil packs or coil pack wiring.

Plugs: They are 2 days old genuine VAG ones (part #101000063AA / NGK PFR6Q).

Coil packs: Bolt down ones.

I have tried the following:
Swapped 1 & 4 coil packs, cylinder 1 still spiking high, basically no change at all.
Then swapped plugs 1&4, basically no change, cylinder 2 briefly took over as the highest one but then it all went back to being the same.
Then swapped coil packs 2&3 - no change.

I then examined the wiring, it has been stripped apart before because it was taped with electrical tape and just seemed to have been opened and re-taped. However all insulation intact, no breaks, original connections (based on photos i've seen of others). Generally can't see anything wrong! Reassembled, all put back. No change. No noticable misfire or similar issues.

SO! Could it be the knock sensor on cylinders 1&2? I have been told that there are two and they triangulate the knock to work out individual cylinder values. I figured that the fact that almost always the voltages on the graph from top to bottom are cylinders 1,2,3 then 4 could indicate that the 1&2 sensor is reading high and throwing off all the values making the ECU think #1 is knocking really badly due to a vast imbalance between the two sensors which would, if they were balanced, indicate a #1 knock?

Anyway, enough rambling, anyone got any ideas? I'll post a pic of the graph when I get a chance to log another one.
 
I may try swapping them but they were just ultrasonic cleaned (by me) but it'll probably be worth a shot.
 
I have seen knock sensors pick up excessive noise from the engine when using uprated engine mounts before... had an R32 in for a dyno that had a turbo conversion... was pulling 12's just by revving the engine from idle... it was on very stiff mounts and there was obvious vibrations coming from the engine starting at very low revs....

As Aragorn has suggested, knock sensors are sensitive to tightening torque and IIRC should be 20nm...

Knock sensors are piezo electric sensors like microphones and while the ECU is programmed to look for a narrow range of sounds this is not infallible

<tuffty/>
 
Problem located!

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I have retorqued them (20nm / 180 in.lbs) - no difference. Measured block 20 - 0.0 on all cylinders.

So I swapped the connectors on the sensors and the problem switched to cylinder 3/4. So it's the sensors. They aren't so wrong as to throw a fault code buy they ARE giving different signals making the ECU 'see' knock which isn't there.

I bet they are expensive too. Ah well, at least it's not something worse.

I'll be buying a pair of knock sensors then!
 
Anotherrrr thread reused! My knock sensor voltages are off on cylinder 1 and 2 compared to 3 and 4. Has anyone seen this problem all sorted with a new sensor?
 
Anotherrrr thread reused! My knock sensor voltages are off on cylinder 1 and 2 compared to 3 and 4. Has anyone seen this problem all sorted with a new sensor?

Please guide me to the correct thread I'm having a nightmare with knock sesnor on bul engine

Only 1 knock sensor?
Only 2 connectons pins 54 and 39 from ecu....the connector that goes on the knock sensor had 3 wires and the black is cut?
Volt meter reads 2.33v at ecu at connect and at harness behind cam chain should be 5v
Ecu has been to ecu express for diagnosis no faults found.
Brand new knock sensor.
Timing is retarding by 30° and therefore car is undriveable really.
With "test" pipe fitted massive audible difference....so cat back on no different.
Engine just rebuilt from crank up.
Anyone with any knowledge on this will be rewarded for the correct advice. I've spent 7k on this car in a year and it's been off the road longer than its been on the road this is my first audi and I absolutely love it I just can't go anywhere in it.
 
BUL? that a TFSI?

Tried rewiring the sensor back to the ECU? normally have to do this to fix signal too high/low faults on 1.8t's... cable is just microphone cable, twin screened... you don't need to connect the screen to anything

You need to ask this in the right section really in case its a common TFSI issue... most of the experience here is 1.8t...

How have you verified this? not even sure VCDS can show 30 degrees timing pull... max I believe is 12...

<tuffty/>
 
It's my last resort I'm going to try tomorrow.
The cam chain tensioner failed a week after I bought it so the engine has been out and back in again....so I'm just wondering is this an issue in more cam chain tensioner failures as the only way I know the signal has caused an issue is when I got the stainless exhaust on. It sounds sick....really loud and quite a lot of vibration.

The car has been mapped by the best in the Northern Ireland (my opinion) and I trust their work as they took a map out that had been put in by another company who I have also had a leon tdi mapped by.

I was kind of worried at his response to the vcds reading of timing pull as he said he wouldn't drive it so...
Wiring checked for resistance 0.7ohms across both cables... wires are connected...unsure about ground or short circuit (both cables reading the same would make it a possibility they're shorted together)
Back to mechanic he suggested the wiring but I had asked the mapper to open the ecu but he was reluctant as he can do his business through the Obd port. He advised me to send it off to ecu express or alike so off it went to ecu testing who came back with no faults.
Knock sensor has been replaced and fitted correctly (surface cleaned and bolt torqued to correct setting 20 nm)


I use obdeleven app for diagnostics simply as it is very useful,easy/compact to use and can be used as boost gauge etc.....all live data.
Obd eleven shows me 30° timing pull I can screenshot this very easily obviously and I'm not 100% but I'm almost sure he had the same readings.
I cleaned the spark plugs and it seemed to be slightly better but still shows on app as an alarm almost immediately after reset but it's so quiet when reset it sounds lovely as soon as you put your right toe down....loud rattly bag again!
With ignition off battery out and back in again. It'll still show this as a fault before starting that's why I haven't checked n75 and DV (they were replaced when engine was refitted along with PCV valve)

With ecu tested and new knock sensor fitted all I'm left with is the wirING between

Sorry for blabbing just want to tell as much info as possible as the car runs out of MOT 04/08/17 and I presume it'll fail emissions as I get about 35miles to 1/4 tank short journeys to and from work.

All help greatly appreciated
 
BUL? that a TFSI?

Tried rewiring the sensor back to the ECU? normally have to do this to fix signal too high/low faults on 1.8t's... cable is just microphone cable, twin screened... you don't need to connect the screen to anything

You need to ask this in the right section really in case its a common TFSI issue... most of the experience here is 1.8t...

How have you verified this? not even sure VCDS can show 30 degrees timing pull... max I believe is 12...

<tuffty/>


Yes it's a tfsi 2.0 BUL 220 special edition so no G66 sensor only G61??
 
Knock sensors are pretty simplistic... its a sensor and some wiring... if its a new sensor then realistically its either a wiring issue or a genuine issue with the engine.. if its an issue with the engine then is it mechanical or wear related?...

Its not an engine I have had experience of myself so can't really comment on specifics but if you have replaced the sensor, rewired the sensor back to the ECU to eliminate wiring then it can only be mechanical noise fooling the sensor into thinking its seeing knock or actual knock... mechanical noise could be slappy pistons or some vibration... actual knock could be mechanical, fuel related, oil getting into the fuel lowering the octane etc...

Beyond that its not gonna be easy to diagnose without seeing the car

<tuffty/>
 
Knock sensors are pretty simplistic... its a sensor and some wiring... if its a new sensor then realistically its either a wiring issue or a genuine issue with the engine.. if its an issue with the engine then is it mechanical or wear related?...

Its not an engine I have had experience of myself so can't really comment on specifics but if you have replaced the sensor, rewired the sensor back to the ECU to eliminate wiring then it can only be mechanical noise fooling the sensor into thinking its seeing knock or actual knock... mechanical noise could be slappy pistons or some vibration... actual knock could be mechanical, fuel related, oil getting into the fuel lowering the octane etc...

Beyond that its not gonna be easy to diagnose without seeing the car

<tuffty/>


I'd like to think it's not engine related as it wasn't cheap to have it rebuilt....new crank 1 new con rod new pistons, rings, valves, rings, liners, cam chain and tension replaced as that's what failed basically a new engine. I think it's certified to have 0 mlies a's it needed a new crank ( apparently buthe this may have beenoticed justification to keep my 1000 deposit) there's not really Amy way I can check the crank without staring again and looking myself which is for sure above my technical ability nor within my budget.

I'm under no illusion that many other engine components or issues can give bad knock readings. However I think I mentioned before
Engine and ignition off
Battery disconnected for an hour or so
Ecu out 20 mins
Ecu back in
Battery reconnected
Knock sensor connected
Ignition on & engine off
Boom knock sensor 1 bank 2 low voltage.
This is school for me my trust in mechanics workmanship other than audi themselves (who I couldn't afford to keep an 11 year old motor on the road) or local mechanics don't really seem keen in fact this BUL 220 seems to scare any mechanic I go near......is it really such an oddball?
Tbh I adore this thing even tho it's also coble red in lacquer peel.....more audi problems it's that special red that no one can match.

Audi spec in Haynes manual is 1l per 1200miles.......is this a misprint or do they actually expect a car to use that much? After rebuild mine uses very very little oil I haven't measured miles against litres but 2000 miles only requires a top up of maybe 1/4 of a litre so bone dry really.
I've had the intake manifold off as the Haynes manual only covers the standard models not the special edition so we were led to believe that we had 2 knock sensors G66 G61 the one that can be changed in ten mins G66 is behind the oil filter housing and in not sure it's accessible from anywhere without taking the intake off and even at that there's not enough room behind the oil filter housing for a sensor a bolt and a wrench socket. So thankfully only one sensor
Mechanical noise has been eliminated as per above engine doesn't have to have running.....Ecu and battery disconnected------reconnect IGNITION on but engine not started KS 1 bank 2 low voltage......aaaaaah lol plus at this stage the voltage accross the 2 pins is 2.33.......
That brings me to another question if the vehicle does have 2 knock sensor's I'd the 5v divided in 2......2.5v for each sensor?? Could it be software mistake? I have a spare ECU here so if all else fails I will try it in the process of elimination after trying the rewire as the ecu has been tested with no faults.

Anyway it's crunch time I'm heading down to the garage now to get stuck in.....should take us more than an hour to rewire it

Dude thank you so much for your time and giving me some hope as I'm headed for a 1.6d v50 estate on Wednesday if this isn't fixed today (only until I can fix this properly) but I really haven't seen my car at full potential.....I'm confident my map will pull 260hp I'm about 180 maybe less ever since I got this car.....it's been a year of torture financial ruin and quite honestly misery ( someone also smashed the back end up on me too) but it's all fixed now just this one niggly little problem.

Again thanks and I will post the results today and I hope that it helps others in future.
 
Iez6014. Where is the best place in Northern Ireland that did ur remapping?. Im also from N.I so would like to know who you use.

I don't want to cause an argument or put other companies name at disrepute....it is my personal beleif that these guys are the best
1 They know thier stuff
2 they have 4wd dyno
3 they have (in my opinion the best man for the job)
4 they are one of the first to be doing this
5 they rebuild your turbo if it goes bang ( at your expense) but it's nice to know that it's done properly
6 you get a proper remap with a dyno printout before and after just as proof
....most blokes with a laptop will flash your ecu for a bit less money but did they build the map themselves or did they buy/steal it??
I don't want to break any rules or offend anyone if you can PM me I will tell you who to contact.?
 
Guess who just bought this Audi...and who would have thought googling the registration would have brought up so much history about a car! I managed to nab it for £2000 which is OK but I'm getting new wheels and devinyling the front end today (for resale). Seems to be driving ok but I didn't realise it was 220BHP! Are there any fault codes present or was the knock sensor still an issue when you sold it?