Facelift Facelift S3 saloon ibis white Turbo Technics V4

azibux1 · Jun 8, 2017

Looks great @Craig Cull! Got any more info on what the vibration reduction is / does in laymans terms please? Spotted it in Carista I think and wondered what it did.

Craig Cull · Jun 8, 2017

azibux1 said:
Looks great @Craig Cull! Got any more info on what the vibration reduction is / does in laymans terms please? Spotted it in Carista I think and wondered what it did.

I dont think the thread should be hindered so i will add the write up that i was going to do. Even if it means im going over things that have already been pointed out. I will explain mate

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azibux1 · Jun 8, 2017

Craig Cull said:
I dont think the thread should be hindered so i will add the write up that i was going to do. Even if it means im going over things that have already been pointed out. I will explain mate

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Cheers, will keep an eye out

Rob2k68 · Jun 8, 2017

Yeah me too ;o)

Craig Cull · Jun 8, 2017

Evening everyone. Sorry for the delayed update, but ive been busy running my company... sometimes in order to take 2 weekends away from the paying work it means you have to catch up twice as much when you get back.... now thats been cleared up lets talk about whats happened over the last couple of weeks.

So we went over to York Raceway to see how it performed, or didnt in this case...

I was trying allsorts to get it off the line but it litterally stopped dead on launch...

So we went home and i went to meet up with CM Tuning to discuss the issues.

We came up with a common issue on the newer cars which is "Vibration Reduction" which is a setting on the Abs controller which steps in when you basically launch the car. So even with the ESP and ESC fully off, this will still step in to stop you completely loosing control of the car. Good for everyday drivers, no good for me as im not used to having so much electronical intervention.
So half hour with VCDS and we managed to dissable the VR and we managed a 4 wheel launch which consisted of all 4 wheels spinning on the spot...
I then left CM Tuning and went back over to York for round 2...

Bearing in mind round 1 saw a measly 12.6 1/4 mile, round 2 saw the TTE Manual S3 Saloon record of 12.07 being broken by me to 12.04 @ 118mph

Check the vid...

//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5939a679c3a43/VID_189341109_183906_196.mp4

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azibux1 · Jun 8, 2017

Thanks for the write-up and explanation

Craig Cull · Jun 8, 2017

So over GTI International,

First of all we had the car sign written as we wanted people to be able to find us, didnt always work in our favour....

(See pics)

We had a great time and met some great people. What people forget is this car is new to everyone... so we aint gonna step upto an event, spank everyone and walk away with a trophie, if it was that easy everyone would be doing it.

So naturally we expected to find some issues. Again the VR enabled its self again, but having too much fun and not taking everything too seriously, we decided we would leave it there and go back to the drawing board.
It acheived a 3.9 0-60 (911 turbo territory) 1/8 mile on 8.1 and a terminal speed of 91 mph.

Considering everything was stepping in, i still really enjoyed driving it and would sooner have it over ANY diesel regardless of what it kicks out.

We can look at this in all kinds of ways.... its ****... im a **** driver and thats the end of it, or we can learn, adapt and return for round 3. Im gonna go for the latter.

So next event is Vag Tuner Live where will also be with MRC Tuning once again.

This is fun, it advertises my business and i get to spank my car at the same time, if this isnt serious enough for some then you best find another thread as this is how it will stay.
The aim is to help others and make a thread that new S3 owners alike can work from, although i know from my big turbo A4 that this isnt how the minority work.

More updates in july unless i buy some more parts

//cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5939aa3b9dd58/VID-20170604-WA0032.mp4

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Craig Cull · Jun 8, 2017

azibux1 said:
Thanks for the write-up and explanation

Wait, theres more

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Craig Cull · Jun 8, 2017

It appears the videos havent shown up so i will upload them to youtube and add them to the post

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desertstorm · Jun 8, 2017

Sorry about that Craig. I can relate to manual and the issues as mine is a manual and being a diesel only manages about 25 in first and 50 in second. Lots of quick gearchanges required. Hence the slower 0-60 time for my car. Run against a very quick blue RS6.
http://vid85.photobucket.com/albums...011-000110-201706041222177225_zpsr2m3xcyc.mp4
If you have one of those clutch pedal dampers on your car remove it, makes for much better quick gearchanges.

azibux1 · Jun 8, 2017

Craig Cull said:
Wait, theres more

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Actually looks really cool with all the branding on it!

Love the plate on that RS3 too lol

wideboybloke · Jun 8, 2017

Beautiful car. My wife has a glacier white cabrio on order - wonder if it'll turn up in riviera blue? Somebody has screwed up somewhere, that's for sure

Craig Cull · Jun 9, 2017

I wasnt sure about the branding to be honest, but on the way down in with the T6, we soon notest every driver looking at us as we took a steady drive down.

I was gutted about the lack of riviera blue, but in all honesty i dont think it would have worked as well with the colour scheme of the company so i guess that could be a blessing. Its s keeper for me this car unless i decide to buy an RS3 saloon in the future but it seems pointless.
Amazing car with hatchback like characteristics in a saloon. Great fun.

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CJP80 · Jun 9, 2017

Awesome build Craig! Can I ask how much better the MRC tune was than the DTUK box? Seems they both make similar power and torque.

Craig Cull · Jun 12, 2017

CJP80 said:
Awesome build Craig! Can I ask how much better the MRC tune was than the DTUK box? Seems they both make similar power and torque.

In an absolute league of its own mate. Power delivery was so much more linear and lower down the rev range.

We're currently looking into forged pistons and con rods now as im not happy being on the limits of the internals. Possibility of a different turbo in the long term as well. But this is all winter stuff really.

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RS200Z · Jun 12, 2017

What's your oil temp like? Is that a need to run an oil cooler for your setup?

Craig Cull · Jun 12, 2017

RS200Z said:
What's your oil temp like? Is that a need to run an oil cooler for your setup?

All good, never goes above 105 even on a hot sunny day. It maybe something to address in the future, but nothing of any concern at the moment. I can monitor oil temp on Virtual Cockpit in detail so that helps.

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Craig Cull · Jun 12, 2017

Average oil temp is around 90-95

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CJP80 · Jun 12, 2017

How much power you running now? Guess you must be trapping 120mph+?

Wonder what your car would run if it was S tronic?

Also, meant to ask, are those brakes from the current Cayenne or the last gen?

Craig Cull · Jun 12, 2017

CJP80 said:
How much power you running now? Guess you must be trapping 120mph+?

517bhp and 673nm. No im only trapping 118mph @ 12.04 1/4 mile. We still have alot of electrical intervention which is killing all the power on launch. We are going out this weekend to hopefully fix or fully code out all the things like, vibration reduction, brake drying, and epc or atleast lower the parameters. But as we found it with the VR, disabled isnt permanent on the 2017 ecu. So its trial and error really

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CJP80 · Jun 12, 2017

That's almost identical power and torque to my previous DCT M4, which managed an 11.8@123mph. Given the additional drivetrain loss and the fact that yours is manual, that's still very impressive. Still amazed the block and rods can handle nearly 700nm. If you go forged internals, can you up the rev limiter?

Craig Cull · Jun 12, 2017

CJP80 said:
That's almost identical power and torque to my previous DCT M4, which managed an 11.8@123mph. Given the additional drivetrain loss and the fact that yours is manual, that's still very impressive. Still amazed the block and rods can handle nearly 700nm. If you go forged internals, can you up the rev limiter?

Thank you, thats the first positive comment ive had on here regarding 1/4 mile. People seem to forget your not a robot and id love to see someone do better with the same set up.
Im as shocked as anyone else that it can take it, but i chose not to push it as far as previous pfl S3 owners have, thats why 2.1bar was enough for me, but also very useable. With rods, pistons, valve springs, arp head and main bolts, its good for 700bhp with stock fueling (minus a lpfp upgrade) the gen3 tsi benefits from port and direct injection as well, so still room to add more fuel if required.

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Terminator x · Jun 12, 2017

Tough in manual too Craig I'd say as dsg must be good for 0.5s a gear change?

TX.

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Craig Cull · Jun 13, 2017

terminator x said:
Tough in manual too Craig I'd say as dsg must be good for 0.5s a gear change?

TX.

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Easily which over 3 changes can see 1.5 seconds over the 1/4 mile. I do believe it would be in the late 10s dsg, which makes the 12.04 a very good time. Terminal speed down due to the traction control on launch. I honestly think it would be in the late 11s with a good launch, making it the first manual S3 into the 11s.
A sport back 8v made 10.89 @ 125mph at crail last weekend with the same set up dsg.
What the car needs is a more asbo launch, but to do that me need more power, forged internals, launch control, flat shift, twin plate clutch and a possibly a big turbo set up. To gain another .5 of a second. Hardly seems worth it lol. Forged internals definitely for longevity if nothing else.

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Rob2k68 · Jun 13, 2017

Sounds like you're well into the realms of diminishing returns now Craig just trying to shave off points of seconds without sacrificing usability elsewhere in a car that I'll bet on the road or track is a proper super car slayer a wolf in sheep's clothing for sure.

I've noticed on my PFL that the XDS differential lock seems to reset itself and has a mind of it's own but have also read on here that the FL T/C and other systems seem to intervene/interfere more than the PFL.

Craig Cull · Jun 13, 2017

Rob2k68 said:
Sounds like you're well into the realms of diminishing returns now Craig just trying to shave off points of seconds without sacrificing usability elsewhere in a car that I'll bet on the road or track is a proper super car slayer a wolf in sheep's clothing for sure.

I've noticed on my PFL that the XDS differential lock seems to reset itself and has a mind of it's own but have also read on here that the FL T/C and other systems seem to intervene/interfere more than the PFL.

Absolutely mate, its either keep as it is and enjoy it (which im going to do for the next year but forge to be safe) or go mental. Ive been down that roaf before and its not always as rewarding as you might think. The aim with this car was to make it fun and useable and with it still returning 25mpg round town means its a very good daily as well. Ill be taking it round Donington for vag tuner live next month and this is where i personally think it will really show its true colours. On the road its as quick as any 911 turbo 997 ive driven so i really cant grumble in anyway. It still stands me at less than what you can buy a stock S3 saloon for with the deal i got from Audi after the colour issue. So really ive done alright out of it. Now just to keep upto it and enjoy it. Still stands the fastast manual S3 on TTE's leader board so im quite pleased with that. For how long im not sure but for now its a good position to be in.

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Terminator x · Jun 13, 2017

I only know that Craig is I did 30-130 at Marham a few years ago (in an Impreza don't hate me!) and got beaten by a TTRS with dsg. We both had about 450hp so I couldn't understand it at first but when you looked at the traces the TTRS was just straight line acceleration you couldn't even see the gear changes! I agree your car will be crazy on the road and yes diminishing returns after a certain point.

TX.

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Craig Cull · Jun 13, 2017

Ive had a few Impreza Sti Version 8s and they are a quick 0 - 80 car with the close ratio box, but after that they really loose steam. The ttrs is a quick car when tuned as well. Its just a tough game to play, i dont want to get into number chasing as it ends in tears. Theres a fine line between fun and money pit lol

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Craig Cull · Jun 13, 2017

Heres an action shot that i was tagged in earlier on facebook, wheels burried in the rear arches as well. The only pic from GTI International that we didnt take lol.

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Craig Cull · Jun 17, 2017

Rob2k68 said:
Sounds like you're well into the realms of diminishing returns now Craig just trying to shave off points of seconds without sacrificing usability elsewhere in a car that I'll bet on the road or track is a proper super car slayer a wolf in sheep's clothing for sure.

I've noticed on my PFL that the XDS differential lock seems to reset itself and has a mind of it's own but have also read on here that the FL T/C and other systems seem to intervene/interfere more than the PFL.

Had CM Tuning over yesterday and we have fully disabled the XDS and everything else.
Prior to disabling it we tested it and it bassically brought a limiter in at around 5k to recover grip.
Going out for a test this morning but yesterday it finallt felt like it had over 500bhp, so fingers crossed.

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Rob2k68 · Jun 17, 2017

Craig Cull said:
Had CM Tuning over yesterday and we have fully disabled the XDS and everything else.
Prior to disabling it we tested it and it bassically brought a limiter in at around 5k to recover grip.
Going out for a test this morning but yesterday it finallt felt like it had over 500bhp, so fingers crossed.

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Sounds encouraging mate - lovely day for it too - enjoy !!!!

James Clatworthy · Jun 20, 2017

Crazy build.. looks amazing!!! good work!

Forbzeeee · Jun 23, 2017

@Craig Cull - When I saw your times on the GTI Inters timing sheet I wondered why you were so far down... I have only just realised YOURS IS A MANUAL!! I'm even more impressed now.

I managed a 0-60 of 3.79 and 1/8m of 7.948 with a passenger so I was really happy with my times.

What's next for you? I'm still in two minds whether to go TTE/Stage 3

Anyway, keep pushing those boundaries I am enjoying your progress

Craig Cull · Jun 24, 2017

Forbzeeee said:
@Craig Cull - When I saw your times on the GTI Inters timing sheet I wondered why you were so far down... I have only just realised YOURS IS A MANUAL!! I'm even more impressed now.

I managed a 0-60 of 3.79 and 1/8m of 7.948 with a passenger so I was really happy with my times.

What's next for you? I'm still in two minds whether to go TTE/Stage 3

Anyway, keep pushing those boundaries I am enjoying your progress

Thanks mate, and all the elctrical intervention was kicking in. So may aswell have left the esp on lol.

Were you the Ara blue facelift that i was next to on the strip? If so i have a video of our run! Shows how much a difference dsg makes!. If you go stage 3 youll be in the 10s so i would lol!

For me its forged internals this year then run on racefuel at events. Should see me close to 600bhp on the same set up.

Then next year me and Chris are in discussions regarding a Big Turbo Set up... thats just talks at the moment though. I still have my corrado which is getting a tfsi torsen or haldex quattro set up. That may come after forging the S3 tbh.

I did wonder who the blue fl S3 was. Nice looking car! You on 20" RS6's??

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Craig Cull · Jun 24, 2017

@Forbzeeee
Was this me and you then??

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Craig Cull · Jun 24, 2017

Heres my run @ 8.25 1/8 mile @ 91 mph 0-60 in 3.89

You can see the traction control hit after launch if you look carefully.
This is whats keeping me in the 8s 1/8 mile.

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S3Alex · Jun 26, 2017

Craig Cull said:
Thanks mate, and all the elctrical intervention was kicking in. So may aswell have left the esp on lol.

Were you the Ara blue facelift that i was next to on the strip? If so i have a video of our run! Shows how much a difference dsg makes!. If you go stage 3 youll be in the 10s so i would lol!

For me its forged internals this year then run on racefuel at events. Should see me close to 600bhp on the same set up.

Then next year me and Chris are in discussions regarding a Big Turbo Set up... thats just talks at the moment though. I still have my corrado which is getting a tfsi torsen or haldex quattro set up. That may come after forging the S3 tbh.

I did wonder who the blue fl S3 was. Nice looking car! You on 20" RS6's??

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Hi Craig.....good to see you doing things that Audi never intended,as before!

If/when you consider the big turbo move,do consider both a DQ500 and Syvecs ECU.

Those 2 things would utterly transform the car,and give you a huge amount of extra scope from the bigger turbo.
I've recently had a DQ500 interfaced with my car,and that,along with new maps for the Syvecs have shaved a huge amount off the acceleration times and added to the performance.

For sure,it was a very expensive mod to undertake,but worth the extra gains......all of mine was done by Andy at Storm Developments,and it may be worth a chat with him if you go down this route.

Best regards,and glad to se you're having fun.

Alex

CJP80 · Jun 26, 2017

S3Alex said:
Hi Craig.....good to see you doing things that Audi never intended,as before!

If/when you consider the big turbo move,do consider both a DQ500 and Syvecs ECU.

Those 2 things would utterly transform the car,and give you a huge amount of extra scope from the bigger turbo.
I've recently had a DQ500 interfaced with my car,and that,along with new maps for the Syvecs have shaved a huge amount off the acceleration times and added to the performance.

For sure,it was a very expensive mod to undertake,but worth the extra gains......all of mine was done by Andy at Storm Developments,and it may be worth a chat with him if you go down this route.

Best regards,and glad to se you're having fun.

Alex

Doesn't the F/L S3 have the improved DQ381 with a higher torque capacity?

S3Alex · Jun 27, 2017

CJP80 said:
Doesn't the F/L S3 have the improved DQ381 with a higher torque capacity?

Now that I don't know,but if I read Craig's thread right,he said the car is a manual.

Either way,what I can say is that the DQ500 is good for over 500lbs on stock clutches,and that is worth considering.

MattSedg · Jun 28, 2017

great write up in performance Audi! the pics look spot on too

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