Audi Sport Has No Interest In Drift Mode For Its Cars

mfl

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Just came across this article, says it all.

While speaking with Motoring recently, Audi Sport's head of development Stephan Reil said that the company has no interest in making its vehicles go sideways.

“No drift mode. Not in the R8, not in the RS 3, not in the RS 6, not in the RS 4. I don’t like them. I do not see the reason for them. We do not see the sense in sitting there burning the back tyres. It’s not fast.


http://www.carscoops.com/2017/03/audi-sport-has-no-interest-in-drift.html
 
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"It's not fast"

Neither is having to drive slower on bumpy roads because your cars super hard suspension means you're frightened of bouncing into a hedge/wall/kerb/house (delete as applicable).
 
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"It's not fast"

Neither is having to drive slower on bumpy roads because your cars super hard suspension means you're frightened of bouncing into a hedge/wall/kerb/house (delete as applicable).
Can of man-up is on its way Simon!
All joking apart, that is a horrible trait of the 8V but springs alone almost eradicated it.
 
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"It's not fast"

Neither is having to drive slower on bumpy roads because your cars super hard suspension means you're frightened of bouncing into a hedge/wall/kerb/house (delete as applicable).

stiff, yes as the car bangs and crashes it way over potholes, but its the rebound that I don't like, you have 'stiff suspension' but hit right dip in the road at speed, and it will see you bouncing down the road before the suspension settles down, and every car park speed hump is at a slow walking pace, to stop the underside of the car hitting the top of the speed hump after the front wheels go over the speed hump.
 
Those cars probably have enough juice to go sideways by turning ESP off, so no need for a stupid button like to ford boys.
 
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So they haven't changed their minds since they said the same thing 6 months ago then?

http://jalopnik.com/audi-isnt-planning-to-offer-a-drift-mode-anytime-soon-1788347691

With the E63S having the facility to shut off its front axle completely, and M5 already rear drive, and now even the bargain basement mustang and Alfa's surprisingly developed and competent Giulia Quadriplegic muscling in on the growing "big-power-to-the-rear-wheels-is-for-real-men, only-farmers-and-hairdressers-need-4wd" marketplace, the pressure is on for Audi to make a car that's geniuinely fun to drive and will engage enthusiastic drivers. Having a bit of sideyways action on tap is a sure fire way to do this at the moment.
 
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Those cars probably have enough juice to go sideways by turning ESP off, so no need for a stupid button like to ford boys.
I'll confine my comments to the S3, 300bhp in a little hatch, would be more than enough power to get it 'sideways' , but it wont go sideways. Yes when I press the little ESP button, I can get a little lift-off oversteer, but with the way the Haldex is set-up you wont be power sliding your way out of a corner anytime soon.
 
The issue is the MQB cars like the s3 and RS3 don't have proper 4wd. You are only ever going to get 100% torque to the rear if the front wheels are on ice and the rears are on tarmac. The fronts and rears will always spin at the same speed. They are either connected or not connected, you don't have front to rear bias control or proper left to right control (just brake modulated)

The torsion based systems in the big boy RS cars (especially those with the extra sport diff) can go very sideways but mechanical grip is pretty extreme so it's easiest done in the wet.

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I'll confine my comments to the S3, 300bhp in a little hatch, would be more than enough power to get it 'sideways' , but it wont go sideways. Yes when I press the little ESP button, I can get a little lift-off oversteer, but with the way the Haldex is set-up you wont be power sliding your way out of a corner anytime soon.
Yes perfect description. When your car senses loss of grip on the rear it simply disengages the clutch and you go from 50% applied rear torque to 0% applied rear torque instantly.

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Yes perfect description. When your car senses loss of grip on the rear it simply disengages the clutch and you go from 50% applied rear torque to 0% applied rear torque instantly.

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Not always. The S3 with TC in sport mode and Quattro in dynamic mode will merrily keep sending power to the rear axle.
 
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Not always. The S3 with TC in sport mode and Quattro in dynamic mode will merrily keep sending power to the rear axle.
Yes you're right. I could have explained it better. It's obviously all down to the programming when the rear connection gets cut.

What will happen though if the rears are slipping, the fronts have traction and the programming is maintaining the rear wheel connection is all the torque will go to the front and your slipping rear wheels will find traction.

There is no physical way to properly drift a haldex car. It's principle is a FWD car than has an on/off ability to connect the rear axle with the front when it wants.

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Yes you're right. I could have explained it better. It's obviously all down to the programming when the rear connection gets cut.

What will happen though if the rears are slipping, the fronts have traction and the programming is maintaining the rear wheel connection is all the torque will go to the front and your slipping rear wheels will find traction.

There is no physical way to properly drift a haldex car. It's principle is a FWD car than has an on/off ability to connect the rear axle with the front when it wants.

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But it has a great deal of its weight over the front axle, meaning that you can unload the rears to the extent that they will break traction and rotate the back end around the front, so it is possible to drift a Haldex car, but not in the same easy-peasey power oversteer let's-go-sideyways mode that rear drive owners enjoy. It's takes a level of commitment and brutality not sensible on the public highway, and you probably need the freakishly high standard of driving talent of someone like Monkey Harris, but, it can be done;
IMG 1333

IMG 1326

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Yes ok to start and then it's basically impossible to maintain becuase of how it works by either cutting it or sending no torque

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But that's the same in any all wheel drive car. No one buys an all wheel drive car if they've an interest in maintaining drifts. If thats what you want it's like asking a cow to lay eggs, and you need to buy a different car. All wheel drive of any type is not a drifting platform, and will only do under fairly severe provocation, and it requires more power to do it. Rear drive is a must have if you want drifting.

The focus RS does strange things with its diff-less GKN rear axle to provoke a simulated drift, but it's as fake as the 17 year olds "drifting" in the McDonald's car park by putting serving trays under the rear wheels and leaving the handbrake on. The AMG E-Class was a rear drive monster to start with, it was tamed with all wheel drive to keep the majority of the public interested and sell a few more of these mental widowmakers to people who recognise the limits of their own talent, but AMG have acknowledged their customer base seems to choose them over their dynamically superior competition because they like their over-engined minicabs to have a bit of rear drive more-power-than-grip lunacy, so they have joined the have-cake-and-eat-it club by retaining the gimmick, USP, and techno-geekery to provide those thrills if desired.

All these things, the mustang line lock, the Focus drift mode, the AMG make-it-more-dangerous mode, are the brainchildren of the same bored over caffeineated engineers who gave us switchable exhaust noises and launch control, and are looking to add a bit of silliness to the cars and their own workdays. The manufacturers, keen to exploit just about anything that can be seen as fun, different or a potential sales advantage, sieze upon these things and copy each other. Audi though? This is a very serious company, one that has eschewed basic things like steering feel, proper weight distribution, and fun, because a car with those things no longer feels like an Audi.

Audi won't offer drift mode on their cars for some good reasons, like the fact that haldex doesn't lend itself to such trickery. The rear axle could be over-driven by changing the rear gearing, but then the clutch slip would require some very heavy clutches, and a huge loss in efficiency. To do it 'properly' they would have to ditch BorgWarner and contract GKN to provide it in the smaller cars, which would be an enourmous and costly re-engineering exercise. In the larger cars they've just spent a fortune engineering Quattro ultra, a system so anti-drift that it physically disconnects the rear propshaft at both ends and is 100% front wheel drive, up to 100%of the time.

Most of all though, they won't do it because they lack the sense of fun required to do such a thing.
 
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Yes but you're going a bit obscure now. Your logic is sound on everything you say above but an rs4, rs5, rs6, r8 etc will drift better (probably need some water still) as they are proper torsion 4wd not a fwd car that can connect the rear axle via a clutch.

Yes you dont buy a 4wd to drift but an s3 and an rs3 are not really proper 4wd. The on/off nature of the rear axle makes it awkward to drift.



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R8 is not a Torsen equipped car. In fact the R8's all wheel drive system has all the sophistication of a wood burning stove when compared to the system on the 8V, and has more in common with the system employed on the mk2 gold syncro of the mid '80's.

None of these cars particularly lend themselves to drifting though, which is the point I'm making. It seems to utterly defy logic and reason to buy 4wd if drifting is your aim. If you want to drift, don't buy a car with a system that dramatically increases traction in the circumstances where you would require it to break traction. It's like buying a sports car when you actually needed a van.

As for Haldex not being 'proper' 4 wheel drive? Respectfully, I disagree. It's main issue is one of not being properly understood. It drives all four wheels in a manner that dramatically improves traction and real world performance, without the significant and very weighty compromises in driveline configuration, packaging and interior space that would result in the installation of a full centre differential equipped system. Torsen all wheel drive is exactly the same system as just about every centre diff equipped all wheel drive car, but with a Torsen limited slip centre diff. As a result it's just as fallible as Haldex, or indeed any other all wheel drive system, in some cases even more so. They all have limitations, and all have pros and cons. The simplified Haldex cars though are cheaper to buy, less complicated to maintain, and more efficient than the heavier, more complex and bulkier traditional all wheel drive equipped cars.

Also, Haldex is not an On/Off proposition. This often quoted fallacy is one of the key misunderstandings behind these systems. It is a continuously variable coupling that can provide for almost infinite levels of slip and thus torque transfer to the rear the rear axle. It is far more capable than people give it credit for.
 
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Ok. Have a nice day.

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