Hendos' s3

SamHendry

SamHendry

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Hello everyone. Ok so I want to go hybrid on my s3 but I'm struggling to find a starting point. There is so much parts and work required and ££££ that I think about one thing,then another thing and it goes on and on!

This thread with the input from you guys I'm hoping will clear my head of all the uncertainties and give me a foundation to start plus help me better understand tuning the 1.8t beast! And who knows maybe it will help someone else.

Ok so a bit about the car. It's a s3 as I mentioned. It has the APY engine and when I bought it close to three years ago I wasn't blown away by it. It didn't meet my expectations. (From a performance perspective) The car I had before was a BM318ci and that was painfully slow, so was expecting a lot more from the 210ps s3 but was little bit dissappointed.

That had to change and I started with the essential maintenance first, cam belt, water pump etc. Once the borring stuff but important was done I started looking at the go faster bits, first thing was the Badger 5 tip V3 and s2000 filter. Then I got a revo stage 1. That transformed the car alone. Felt much quicker, could hear the turbo so much more!

Engine bay pic. With my scuttle panel duct taped haha


At this point I was showing signs of the 1.8t tuning bug and I couldn't stop. Next was a 3 inch down pipe and of course a FMIC, welly cooler was the route I went down, absolutely essential I would say the FMIC is, I did a track day once with smic and I'm sure my engine bay was hotter than the middle of the sun! Car was really slow as well!

I got into trackdays this year and after doing the engine mods above the car was ok in a straight line. Not the quickest on track obviously but hey not the slowest and good fun aswell but was suffering badly in the corners and the brakes were shocking.

Bolted on a set of LCR brembos. 323 discs.


The I turned my attention to the suspension. I bought the car with lowering springs on standard shocks. Not a good combination I know. The ride was awful and they had to go. Went with a set of AP Coilovers, not the best around but handling is much better.



There was a lot of bushes that needed attention, rear trailing arm bushes were totally f@cked! Stuck on a r32 Arb, that tightened the rear of the car plus I had to get rid of the seats, especially if I was gonna be doing more track days. And I'm glad I did! They weigh about the same as my house lol

Fitted club sports with 4 point harness



At knockhill earlier in the year. Not sure why my wipers are moving lol


More recent pic of the engine bay


Going back to the original question. I plan going down the AET 380 route. One thing I'm unsure about with regards to that turbo is the optional uprated actuator. Is it necessary? Can you utilise a standard one. As you've probably already guessed I'm a tad clueless so please educate me! I'm not trying to save money I'm just trying to understand.

What about rods? Anyone using non RD on here? My car will be mostly used for B road blasts and a good few track days a year so if I can get away with non RD then great, will be lighter on the wallet. But I like the idea of fit and forget so could go down the RD route.

Regarding rebuilding the engine. The head will be sent off to machine shop. Not sure whether I'm gonna stick with standard exhaust valves or super tech. I won't be doing insane track mileage nor road mileage so might be ok on standard valves?

I have loads more questions but I think I'll leave it at that for now haha

Thanks for reading, if anyone wants to add anything then please do!

Sam
 
You need an uprated actuator for a hybrid... standard one won't hold the wastegate shut on a hybrid when the back pressures rise and boost will drop off top end

Rifle drilled rods... don't bother with non drilled (been there and had the resultant wear)... don't forget new rings and shells..

Supertech inconel exhaust valves (triple groove) as a minimum... std exhausts are failing all the time... don't forget new valve guides as the exhaust ones wear badly... and new stem seals of course...

Relap all the valves... check the seats on the exhausts as they pit...

<tuffty/>
 
<tuffty/> said:
You need an uprated actuator for a hybrid... standard one won't hold the wastegate shut on a hybrid when the back pressures rise and boost will drop off top end

Rifle drilled rods... don't bother with non drilled (been there and had the resultant wear)... don't forget new rings and shells..

Supertech inconel exhaust valves (triple groove) as a minimum... std exhausts are failing all the time... don't forget new valve guides as the exhaust ones wear badly... and new stem seals of course...

Relap all the valves... check the seats on the exhausts as they pit...

<tuffty/>
Click to expand...

Thanks tuffty

The internal engine work is complete minefield for me, so the more information I can drag out of you the better haha

Won't be doing any engine work myself, will leave that to a engine builder but will be a bit of time and £££ before I get to that point.
 
I'm just a total novice (as you know) but... with so much work you are planning on why are you limiting yourself to a hybrid? why not go big turbo - someone on here only the other day collected his 500BHP 1.8T S3 from Badger 5.
Is it because you already bought an expensive 3inch downpipe or something?

From reading on here the hybrids appear to be 300-400 but the Big Turbo threads show more like 500BHP don't know if they are cost effective? from my light browsing on this 'ere forum there appears to be only really one reliable exhaust manifold for a K04 and that is the ported chinafold, which is only really available "ready to go" with Badger5 AET 380 package - but that comes with a pre-connected V2_2 TIP billet on the turbo housing meaning you will no longer need your B5 V3 TIP.

I thought an advantage of using one of the popular big turbo options is that they provide enough air flow for plenty of power without being maxed out generating a million degrees in centigrade in heat.

have you considered buying someone else's half finished project engine or are they usually "half finished" because they went wrong?

Q1: Why did you remove the sound proofing from the bonnet? Is it really loud now, or was it for weight reduction?
Q2: Do you have a clamp on the fuel pipe to the FPR? Maybe its the photo angle - or are some fuel pipes push on and stay on?
Q3: Where is your cross member from your engine bay, isn't the car flexible now?
Q4: Do you have a custom battery cover - that's pretty unique isn't it?


best of luck - it looks like you have done so much already - Incidentally, are you still running the Stage 1 Map with the FMIC and 3Inch Downpipe, or did you get a map tweak?
 
Hey Stuart going hybrid just feels like the natural step and logical one I would say when you consider my ability plus my budget. Already feel out of my depth going hybrid so BT would be a step too far.

I managed to source a b5 manifold so won't be buying the package and I can quickly sell of the v3 tip so that's fine. Hopefully I'll be fitting a wmi kit at some point to help with the heat.

Still running the revo stage 1, wish I went custom map but you live and learn!
 
Nott wanting to jump into some one elses thread but i have 2 questions. How much is that badger 5 package and anyone had 1 fitted for some feadback.
 
or.... if you want to read some shiny turbo pointless posturing read the TTE360 thread.
 
Last edited:
Bit of an update on progress. My employer shuts down for two weeks over Xmas, so this gave time to crack on.

Engine out


Borrowed a pallet truck from work to remove the engine and it worked great.

In its new home for the next few months


Felt great being able to touch and see turbo/manifold without having to squeeze your hand in or use a mirror!

Removed the turbo and it was full of cracks.


If I can't use that turbo for my aet hybrid exhange then I will need a new unit which will take the cost close to 1500, I'm tempted to use bbt hybrid.

Most bits off the engine


I thought you could remove the gearbox from the block with transfer box in place maybe you can but it looks like a pita so I've ordered the special 6mm Allen Key tool so I can get t/box off first then gearbox.

Then I can get the block up on the engine stand and give it a good clean. Theres a lot sh! t stuck to it so it's gonna take a lot of elbow grease!

So things moving along nicely, did more in the last few days that I originally thought I would, head wil be dropped off at a local machine shop in the coming weeks.

Still loads of stuff I need to get, rods, gaskets, headbolts etc etc
 
Not a lot happened over the past month since I pulled the engine out. Well nothing has happened lol today there was a bit of progress. Picked my head up from my local machine shop. Really pleased with there service. Dropped the head off on Thursday lunchtime and received a phone call 24h later letting me know it was ready! Awesome! Anyone in the north of Scotland that needs engine work done I would really recommend the boys at auto head recon. Head was stripped cleaned valves replaced seals done


With that done I turned my attention to prepping the block before I fit rods. What a mess the block was in and kinda still is. I spent this afternoon scrubbing 17 years and 120k build up of engine sh!t. I heard oven cleaner was good for the job so I want out and bought some!

And what a state it's in. Time to get busy with the toothbrush.


After 3 hours of soul destroying scrubbing I had enough and rinsed the block with hot soapy water.

Not entirely happy with the results but that's the best I can do with what I have at my disposal. Not a job I'll be in any rush to do again!

With that done I can turn my attention to rebuilding the bottom end. When I started this thread my plan was to pay an engine builder/machine shop to do all that work but with costs adding up I decided I would do it myself.

Parts collected thus far


Need to source an oil pump kit and a bit more research regarding ring gapping plus ring filing methods. Are oe ring gap specs OK for hybrid power? The car will be used on track A LOT.
 
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Well since my last post I've slowly been working towards fitting my rods. Started off with removing the old connecting rods.



Pistons are in really nice condition except for slight peeling on coated sides. Rings are in poor condition, surface of top compression ring is deteriorating and is probably responsible for slight scoring on bores.

Next job was hone the bores. I used a stone hone with a 18v drill on slow setting, really tricky to get in a rhythm and my first few attempts were rubbish . Stuck at it and eventually got something that resembled cross hatched pattern. Oh and I hit the oil jets more than once :anguished: but got lucky and broke nothing.

With that dreaded job out the way I set about assembling rods and Pistons. Pistons were soaked in degreaser over night and came out nice.




New oem shells


New rings. Hopefully they bed in without drama.


So today unexpectedly I had a half day at work giving me the the chance to fit the above.

First thing gave crank journals and bores and good clean even tho I had already cleaned them to death.

Prepared Pistons

Lubed big end :laughing:


Ring compressor on followed by me gingerly tapping them in.

First one went in without drama. They all went in without any hiccups tbh. Although I didn't get any in on my first attempt just stayed patient and all came good :)

One thing that made life easier was using a ruler to stabilise the piston while tightening the ring compressor which can be awkward.



Pistons all installed and a slight relief to get them in without any drama, never tackled something like this before so really chuffed with results so far. I should say the con rod arp 2000 bolts I'm using were torqued to 50 ftlbs. Cycled a few times also using arp bolt lube. Thanks tuffty for the heads up on that.
 
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Hybrid is something I'm thinking about on my build just not sure what route yet. Unfortunately I had the engine rebuild all with OEM parts apart from IE rods. Now I'm wondering if it will hold up if I go hybrid...

Build looks good so far mate
 
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Cheers gonzo :) I think it would hold up OK mate. Well I hope so! because my engine is being rebuilt with oem parts as well. Except rods obviously and I swapped out the standard exhaust/inlet valves for a set of stainless ones.
 
SamHendry said:
Well since my last post I've slowly been working towards fitting my rods. Started off with removing the old connecting rods.



Pistons are in really nice condition except for slight peeling on coated sides. Rings are in poor condition, surface of top compression ring is deteriorating and is probably responsible for slight scoring on bores.

Next job was hone the bores. I used a stone hone with a 18v drill on slow setting, really tricky to get in a rhythm and my first few attempts were rubbish . Stuck at it and eventually got something that resembled cross hatched pattern. Oh and I hit the oil jets more than once :anguished: but got lucky and broke nothing.

With that dreaded job out the way I set about assembling rods and Pistons. Pistons were soaked in degreaser over night and came out nice.




New oem shells


New rings. Hopefully they bed in without drama.


So today unexpectedly I had a half day at work giving me the the chance to fit the above.

First thing gave crank journals and bores and good clean even tho I had already cleaned them to death.

Prepared Pistons

Lubed big end :laughing:


Ring compressor on followed by me gingerly tapping them in.

First one went in without drama. They all went in without any hiccups tbh. Although I didn't get any in on my first attempt just stayed patient and all came good :)

One thing that made life easier was using a ruler to stabilise the piston while tightening the ring compressor which can be awkward.



Pistons all installed and a slight relief to get them in without any drama, never tackled something like this before so really chuffed with results so far. I should say the con rod arp 2000 bolts I'm using were torqued to 50 ftlbs. Cycled a few times also using arp bolt lube. Thanks tuffty for the heads up on that.
Click to expand...

I'll be referring back to these photos and using your ruler trick when I do mine *golf claps*
 
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It wasn't until the last piston, then I realised how much easier it was using a ruler! Two rulers would actually make it even easier, one either side. What rods are you using Ian? Are you going oversize or stock bore? Look forward to your rod install write up!
 
copy that on the two ruler trick ;)

I have IE rifle drilled conrods and Goetze rings. leaving it to stock bore - CBF with more costs on top of the costs already hahaha
and to be able to rev the engine too
 
Haha expensive hobby! My savings are quickly disappearing and my car is in a million bits in the garage lol wtf am I doing!

Will be worth it at the end. I just keep telling myself that so I actually have a chance of finishing. End of March is my deadline. Atleast have the engine in the car then organise custom exhaust and remap, which means more £££ :weary:
 
Well i think seeing each other's progress will help keep up the momentum!!!
 
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At least you two are making progress, I ain't although seeing theses build threads progress I can't wait till I'm at that level
 
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IanPG said:
Well i think seeing each other's progress will help keep up the momentum!!!
Click to expand...
Yeah man just got to keep at it. Any momentum I build up seems to come crashing down when I don't order enough parts in advance. I think its because of the cost of everything, I just keep putting it off or think too long about utilising old parts but really just need to bite the bullet.

ATM waiting for a oil pump kit, it's a master repair kit with chain and tensioner with pick up pipe and the oil pump itself. Was gonna use the old one but chain tensioner is worn and I'm paranoid about failing oil pump. Hopefully shouldnt be too bad to swap over although I'm not sure how the oil pump chain can be removed, I didn't notice a joining link in the chain.

Tj 0785 said:
At least you two are making progress, I ain't although seeing theses build threads progress I can't wait till I'm at that level
Click to expand...
Just go for it buddy. There is so much information and videos around that if you put in the time there really is no reason you can't have crack at something like this yourself. There is 5 part 1.8t engine rebuild tutorial I purchased off YouTube. It covers swapping rods and gapping rings and is definitely worth a watch. I'll pm you and Ian the link :grinning:
 
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SamHendry said:
Hopefully shouldnt be too bad to swap over although I'm not sure how the oil pump chain can be removed, I didn't notice a joining link in the chain.
Click to expand...

According to the Haynes Manual mate,to change the oil pump chain,obviously have to remove the oil pump then...

"To remove the chain,remove the timing belt then unbolt the crankshaft oil seal housing from the cylinder block,then unhook the chain from the sprocket on the front of the camshaft."

"The oil pump drive sprocket is a press fit on the crankshaft,and cannot easily be removed.Consult an Audi dealer for advice if the sprocket is worn or damaged."

They recommend to fit a new crankshaft oil seal to the crankshaft housing.They also state that Audi sealant (D 176404 A2) or equivalent will be required to seal the crankshaft oil seal housing on refitting and it is advisable to fit a new oil seal.

Don't know if there's an easier way mate,just what the Manual reckons.

Hope that's made it a bit clearer.
 
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What about Plastigauge???

You used it in your build? Don't see any checking of clearances in your posts :)
 
tcg said:
According to the Haynes Manual mate,to change the oil pump chain,obviously have to remove the oil pump then...

"To remove the chain,remove the timing belt then unbolt the crankshaft oil seal housing from the cylinder block,then unhook the chain from the sprocket on the front of the camshaft."

"The oil pump drive sprocket is a press fit on the crankshaft,and cannot easily be removed.Consult an Audi dealer for advice if the sprocket is worn or damaged."

They recommend to fit a new crankshaft oil seal to the crankshaft housing.They also state that Audi sealant (D 176404 A2) or equivalent will be required to seal the crankshaft oil seal housing on refitting and it is advisable to fit a new oil seal.

Don't know if there's an easier way mate,just what the Manual reckons.

Hope that's made it a bit clearer.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Really helpful information :)

Honestly didn't have a clue but after reading that seems reasonably straight forward! Might have a crack at it. And if something breaks it's your fault! ;)

IanPG said:
What about Plastigauge???

You used it in your build? Don't see any checking of clearances in your posts :)
Click to expand...
I did plasti gauge and what pita getting the plasti off the crank. Finger nail worked best. :)

I think it's within spec
 
Yeah but red is my favourite colour :)

Not sure tbh whats the difference?
 
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Been busy in the evenings and weekends rebuilding this ****** thing. Oil pump kit turned up.

New pump sprocket spins a lot more freely than old one. I assume the old one was in poor health. Glad that's done. :)

Fitted new pick up pipe and bolted on the baffle tray thingy then sealed the sump on.. Did want to fit a baffled sump but decided against it, hopefully doesn't come back to bite me.

After that I fitted the head on the block, first cleaned up the block face with some wet and dry and a Stanley blade. Dropped the head on and torqued the bolts to 40nm plus 90X2 on each bolt.



New timing belt and tensioner



Dreading doing the belt but wasn't sure what I was worrying about as it was straight forward. Although don't fancy doing it with the engine in the car.

With that done I started bolting on a few auxiliaries, power steering pump then alternator a few other bits then lifted it off the stand.




Just waiting for my clutch and turbo and I can get everything together and back in the car. Thank God! Tired of having it in bits and just wanna drive the thing!
 
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Good job!!!!

Timing belt is definitely 1000x easier when engine is out. No faffing with raise engine, undo bolt, lower engine, fit bottom of belt, raise engine, fit top of belt... lol

I am still sorting / waiting on parts :sob:
 
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Yeah I hope it's timed up properly because I really cbf taking the belt off with engine in the car!

What a nightmare it is waiting for parts! If I had everything I needed from day one of the build I would probably be done by now!
 
i would've had everything - until things got bendy and block got damaged LOL

just as long as you line all the marks up (cam sprocket, # of links on the timing chain, flywheel, crank gear good ol' screwdriver in cylinder #1) all should be dandy!
 
Your numbers came up on the 1.8t rod lottery lol could have been worse I would think!

I'll need to triple check all timing marks that way first turn of the key should be less tense. Still sh!ting myself tho.

Still lots to do! Still havent fitted my inline fuel pump. What's that like to do?

Before I pulled the engine out I had a abs light which I believe is a faulty abs unit or wiring issue. Need to sort that some how.

Cooling fans weren't working properly as well. Need to look into that. Anyone know of any common issue which stop fans working.?

I want to run wmi as well but I'm skeptical of the cost and effort to fit outweighs the benefits of it?
 
SamHendry said:
Still lots to do! Still havent fitted my inline fuel pump. What's that like to do?
Click to expand...

It's not too bad. I got one with the fitting that snap right into the stock fuel filter location. I also had a spare 90degree quick fit and got a straight fitting from an 8p from the wreckers to use with the relocated, smaller fuel filter to the location under the charge pipe. That a simple cut amd secure in.

Just make sure with wiring it's all solid connections. Learned my lesson when I was trying to be quick and used quick connectives where you press the wire into a groove. Biggest waste of time. Should have just done what I know and solder a strong connection.

Feeding the wire from outside to inside was the trickiest but just use a coat hanger and all is good!
 
Cheers Ian I've been putting it off because I really can't be bothered climbing under the car. Especially with this weather although getting a little better, today was a scorgeing seven degrees! Oh yeah hahha
 
Clutch and turbo turned up, so that gave me the green light to assemble the engine as much as I can prior to reinstalling back in the car.

First was fit flywheel and clutch and bolt gearbox on...



I'm using my existing single mass flywheel which has covered 20k and hopefully will do many more.. New clutch plate and clutch cover although I accidently bought a clutch cover for a DMF...wooops..just bolted the old clutch cover on and fitted the new friction plate..fitted new slave cylinder as well.

Finally the time had come to fit my 'new' box that had been sitting at work for the last 2 months..

Had to source this gearbox as my last one failed at Knockhill 6 laps into track day in November last year :(

Its from a TT and it's already covered 101k so not sure how long it's gonna last!

Good mate of mine came over give me a hand as it's a heavy awkward b@stard


With that done I moved my attention to the manifold..again this has been sitting around for a long time and was great to get it bolted up even if it did put up a fight..

Badger 5 ported chinafold



Had issues with the lugs on the top of the mani.. Nothing an angle grinder can't fix hehe

Fouled, wouldnt sit flush on the head




Shaved around 1mm and that seemed to do the trick.


Same story on the turbo compressor housing.. Shaved a small amount off the manifold which gave me a small gap. Camera doesn't pick it up..


Bbt k418t




Looks good hopefully it can give me many boosted miles :)

Fitting it was fine just fiddly, new copper washers on all banjo bolts, gasket-less between mani and turbo..



Need to get a blank for the EGT hole as its apy engine although I'm thinking it might be a good idea to fit a EGT gauge and utilise the hole in the turbo.. Anyone done this and want to share? :)
 
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On Sunday my mate Joe came over and we set about reinstalling the engine in the car, we started quite late in the day so our mission was just get the mounts bolted up and prop shaft.

Which you would think wouldn't be to difficult but with the tools we were using and the surface of my driveway it was a bit of nightmare..

Out came the 'handy' pallet truck. Was great for taking the engine out but not so great for putting it back in..

Was really difficult to manipulate the engine in the correct position to get it bolted up.. At one point the engine dropped of the edge of the pallet (not my finest momment) and the whole weight of the engine nd gearbox was being held up by the prop shaft lol Woops...

But this was a blessing (assuming nothing broke) as it allowed us to get trolley jacks underneath which allowed us to raise and lower either side of the engine which gave us the ability to get the mounts bolted..


We called it a day at this point as it was late in the day and decided ordering some pizza and having a few beers was definitely the more appropriate thing to do :)

Yesterday after work found some time to begin assembling everything and with nights getting lighter and warmer finding motivation to go out and do it isn't as hard.

Started with bolting the downpipe on, first thing I noticed was DP wasnt siting square to the turbo.. Hmm.. I thought if I bolt it on it will square it up which it did but when I moved on to the prop shaft I discovered why it wasnt sitting right.

They are jammed up against each other :(

So rather than dwell on that I moved on to the loom which is a bit of a mess.


Spent half hour fiddling with it and then had enough and went inside for my dinner..

What's peoples thoughts on my DP rubbing on the prop shaft? Any suggestions how I can solve it?

Another issue is the EGT hole on the turbo. Can anyone confirm the size of the thread? M10x1 fine is it? I cant for the life of me fined bolt/plug for it..
 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1763892 <- re: EGT

I had my engine topple over too! LOL ****** engine stand w/ front swivel arm and not so long rear arms.... it was a panic moment for sure lol

Have you fit the subframe and dogbone yet? I think that will help to align things up properly again regarding the propshaft and DP rubbing.

Looking really good though!!! Almost there for you :D
 
That's good point haven't touched the dog bone yet.. Your right should fit that then take it from there..

Almost there you would think but still lots to do need to organise a map and there is no one local who can map it or atleast I can trust..

Possibly a trip to badger 5 but it's like a 10 hour drive!! Still loads to do before that tho.
 
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SamHendry said:
On Sunday my mate Joe came over and we set about reinstalling the engine in the car, we started quite late in the day so our mission was just get the mounts bolted up and prop shaft.

Which you would think wouldn't be to difficult but with the tools we were using and the surface of my driveway it was a bit of nightmare..

Out came the 'handy' pallet truck. Was great for taking the engine out but not so great for putting it back in..

Was really difficult to manipulate the engine in the correct position to get it bolted up.. At one point the engine dropped of the edge of the pallet (not my finest momment) and the whole weight of the engine nd gearbox was being held up by the prop shaft lol Woops...

But this was a blessing (assuming nothing broke) as it allowed us to get trolley jacks underneath which allowed us to raise and lower either side of the engine which gave us the ability to get the mounts bolted..


We called it a day at this point as it was late in the day and decided ordering some pizza and having a few beers was definitely the more appropriate thing to do :)

Yesterday after work found some time to begin assembling everything and with nights getting lighter and warmer finding motivation to go out and do it isn't as hard.

Started with bolting the downpipe on, first thing I noticed was DP wasnt siting square to the turbo.. Hmm.. I thought if I bolt it on it will square it up which it did but when I moved on to the prop shaft I discovered why it wasnt sitting right.

They are jammed up against each other :(

So rather than dwell on that I moved on to the loom which is a bit of a mess.


Spent half hour fiddling with it and then had enough and went inside for my dinner..

What's peoples thoughts on my DP rubbing on the prop shaft? Any suggestions how I can solve it?

Another issue is the EGT hole on the turbo. Can anyone confirm the size of the thread? M10x1 fine is it? I cant for the life of me fined bolt/plug for it..
Click to expand...
egt m12x1
 
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