My s3 is dead :(

davc · Oct 16, 2016

Sorry to hear this mate.

My S3 8p had an issue with the synchro mesh sometimes going from 2nd to 3rd it would stick and try to make me select 1st.

Once this happened about 45 mph ended up in 1st with an almighty crunch and rev counter bouncing off the limit but luckily no damage was done.

If Audi don't play ball find a reputable company and get the engine rebuilt and send your brother the bill.

musicegbdf · Oct 16, 2016

That is serious bad luck. I wonder if this could happen with s tronic and paddles ? I am sure it is easier to make the mistake with paddle shift....

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amit87 · Oct 16, 2016

Sorry OP to hear what you're experiencing.

With reference to s tronic. ... the software WON'T let you downshift unless it's "safe". Just as in s tonic it won't let you bounce of limiter it Wil up shift. Again won't let you stall... will down shift.

If this happened with s tonic would deffo be a warranty claim!

musicegbdf said:
That is serious bad luck. I wonder if this could happen with s tronic and paddles ? I am sure it is easier to make the mistake with paddle shift....

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musicegbdf · Oct 16, 2016

This Amit , I thought that might be the case. Still feel for the op, this is rotten luck.

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Psyman79 · Oct 16, 2016

I accidently over down shifted with s-tronic during a spirited drive over the Slug road and the car just refused to do anything until i put it back in 2nd. Doesn't really help the discussion

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Stephenhirst · Oct 17, 2016

AJB said:
Sound very much like he was in second, trying to go for third but got first by mistake. Synchro stopped it going in as easily as normal because there was a big rev increase, then he finally got it into first (maybe helped by double declutch if he blipped the throttle, may just from giving it longer and pushing harder).

He thought he was now in 3rd, brought the clutch up, and the car's momentum immediately forced the engine up to the revs needed for that speed (51mph?) in first. That caused damage and slipped timing,

The fact that he struggled with a gear change when it happened pretty much confirms to me that it was user error selecting the wrong gear... Sorry.

He didn't go into first... we've contacted audi UK and they're investigating, sterling audi were going to rip my engine apart even though the car "wasn't covered by warrenty" and we're told not to do anything to it, they also broke my coil pack when taking it off

Stephenhirst · Oct 17, 2016

GSB said:
So, who was driving, and what really happened?

There's little in the way of real facts and data for us to hang a challenge to Audi on so far, and what little there is is conflicting. If your story has this many holes in it when you go to Audi you'll get nowhere.

On here itso just easier to explain it from me, but my brother had the car as I'm away, it's looking more like a careally error, there was no human error involved, I've had issues with it before

Stephenhirst · Oct 17, 2016

Flying Scotsman said:
Going back to the OP's first post. He states timing belt, I thought the S3 has a timing chain? Is it belt or chain?

I think the whole thing has been miss diagnosed by the AA and sterling audi, I'm not sure if it's a belt or chain to be honest, AA said it slipped but not sure how they'd know just from opening the bonnet

Stephenhirst · Oct 17, 2016

davc said:
Sorry to hear this mate.

My S3 8p had an issue with the synchro mesh sometimes going from 2nd to 3rd it would stick and try to make me select 1st.

Once this happened about 45 mph ended up in 1st with an almighty crunch and rev counter bouncing off the limit but luckily no damage was done.

If Audi don't play ball find a reputable company and get the engine rebuilt and send your brother the bill.

I wasn't much brothers fault

GSB · Oct 17, 2016

Stephenhirst said:
On here itso just easier to explain it from me, but my brother had the car as I'm away, it's looking more like a careally error, there was no human error involved, I've had issues with it before

Previous history of this issue? Do tell. There's nothing like a bit of context to make defining the argument a little easier.

Gordo77 · Oct 17, 2016

GSB said:
Previous history of this issue? Do tell. There's nothing like a bit of context to make defining the argument a little easier.

Better still, get your brother to sign up here... we have a few questions for him!

Broken Byzan · Oct 17, 2016

It cannot over rev without mechanical help, It was dropped into too low a gear causing the engine to be pulled over the safe limit causing impact i'd expect. I don't see how Audi can be at fault for this :blush:

MrFlibble · Oct 17, 2016

Broken Byzan said:
It cannot over rev without mechanical help, It was dropped into too low a gear causing the engine to be pulled over the safe limit causing impact i'd expect. I don't see how Audi can be at fault for this

Well, it could still be a misdiagnosis. As Flying Scotsman suggested,and having looked into it, I don't think the CJXB and CJXC engines have timing belts - the 8P model S3 did have a timing belt, but I think that has been deleted starting with the 8V. Damaging a chain is possible under extreme stress or with a faulty tensioner.

We also don't know exactly what evidence audi have, and that depends on the examination of the engine and the ECU data capture. It's one thing if the ECU data capture shows the engine speed bouncing off the rev limiter with the clutch out; it's another if the ECU capture shows 9000 rpm with 1st gear selected and the clutch engaged.

GSB · Oct 17, 2016

Broken Byzan said:
It cannot over rev without mechanical help, It was dropped into too low a gear causing the engine to be pulled over the safe limit causing impact i'd expect. I don't see how Audi can be at fault for this

There is one way, but it's a long shot.

If you could show via written correspondence, email, service record or invoice that you had previously complained to an Audi main dealerabout a vague, notchy, noisy, inaccurate, grinding baulking or generally recalcitrant gearshift, it could be reasonably argued that this was the cause of the mis-shift that lead to the over-rev. This would be evidence enough to pass the balance of probability back to Audi, but it requires first that someone admit that the mis-shift into 1st actually happened.

I can't think of any other way you can over rev the engine, other than slapping it in first at 50 miles an hour. This would cause the engine to brake the car heavily, throwing the occupant(s) against the belts, spiking the engine revs to about 9000rpm and making a hell of a noise. It's not something that would strike you as normal. In fact, I suspect it'd be quite memorable.

davc · Oct 17, 2016

MrFlibble said:
Well, it could still be a misdiagnosis. As Flying Scotsman suggested,and having looked into it, I don't think the CJXB and CJXC engines have timing belts - the 8P model S3 did have a timing belt, but I think that has been deleted starting with the 8V. Damaging a chain is possible under extreme stress or with a faulty tensioner.

We also don't know exactly what evidence audi have, and that depends on the examination of the engine and the ECU data capture. It's one thing if the ECU data capture shows the engine speed bouncing off the rev limiter with the clutch out; it's another if the ECU capture shows 9000 rpm with 1st gear selected and the clutch engaged.

The CJXB/C engines (EA888 Gen3) use timing chains, there were tensioner failures on the earlier generation engines found in the GTI, I wonder if this is now affecting the 8V S3 and Golf 7R.

Would a failed tensioner lead to an engine over speed?

GSB · Oct 17, 2016

davc said:
Would a failed tensioner lead to an engine over speed?

No, but an overspeed might be the final straw for a defective tensioner.

AJB · Oct 17, 2016

davc said:
The CJXB/C engines (EA888 Gen3) use timing chains, there were tensioner failures on the earlier generation engines found in the GTI, I wonder if this is now affecting the 8V S3 and Golf 7R.

Would a failed tensioner lead to an engine over speed?

I don't see how it could. The engine would stop running properly, not start going faster. It can't speed up unless air, fuel and spark are happening, which are all under ecu control regardless of mechanical timing.

Plus I can't get past the coincidence that his brother was struggling with a 2nd to 3rd gearchange that wouldn't go in to 3rd for some reason just at the same time as the engine failed of its own accord and mistakenly logged an inaccurate over-rev fault code...

GSB · Oct 21, 2016

Any updates on this @Stephenhirst ?

Stephenhirst · Feb 22, 2017

GSB said:
Ouch.

51mph in 1st would be around 7600-7800 rpm? Not ideal, but hardly the most spectacular incident of over revving I've heard of.

over revved in 2nd at 51mph, apparently 8133 rpm... makes no sense to me

Stephenhirst · Feb 22, 2017

Just to clarify for everyone who was a bit confused, the car was bought new by me in august 2014, it was stock, its also a manual, my brother was driving when the car cut out, we went to select third, didn't get it in so went back to second and the car died, ecu confirms this as it claimed an over rev at 51mph in second gear at 8133 rpm, that doesn't make sense as that would be about 6000 rpm but that's when it says, the engine has been stripped and the valves in cylinder 3 and 4 are not seating correctly, followers have snapped off and the head is written off, i had a "cylinder 3 cam contour adjustment" fault back in 2015 which cause the car to lose power, after the AA wiped the fault and i took it to Audi, they couldn't get the fault to re-occur so after a week they gave the car back, does anyone think that it could have been the start to this mess?

MarttiMat · Feb 22, 2017

Flying Scotsman said:
Going back to the OP's first post. He states timing belt, I thought the S3 has a timing chain? Is it belt or chain?

I think we need to back up a bit. The EA888 engine is timing chain driven (current 2.0L engine A3/S3). EA113 is timing belt driven which was last run in 2008 or there abouts (2006 A3 introduction for NA).

Clearly more facts are needed of the incident like all the above have already mentioned.

Also, manual transmissions by ZF or Borg feature lockouts or spring loaded ball-bearings which attempt to prevent the operator from entering the wrong gear at the incorrect speed (this is not to say it cannot happen). Enough operator force can be detrimental to the power train if forced into the wrong gear and the clutch released, which to this point sounds to me is what happened.

My s3 is dead :(

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