2.0TDi Oil Pump / Balancer shaft problems - the definitive guide! Audi VW Skoda SEAT

Ok just had car back today had to put balance shaft on hold for a few weeks due to vibration on car was really bad. Indy said looks possibly like DMF so I said do that first.
So had fitted :-
New DMF AND CLUTCH
new aux belt and tensioner.
New alternator clutch pulley.
Total cost £868.
But still got a vibration around 1800 rpm and at 80mph
He said maybe a injector ?
I am thinking egr valve sticking as he said chick in some diesel treatment to see how it goes .
B shaft is next to be done but vibration is driving me nuts car seems much quieter now the work has been done so far but still this ****** vibration.
He checked bearings wheels tyres etc etc all seemed fine.
Any ideas ?
Si
 
Mine was the 2007 2.0 170bhp BRD engine and it failed. Rattling noise got louder and eventually the oil pressure light came on. Prior to that I had the injectors tested and they were well within tolerance. Also had a new clutch and DMF. I'm now considering getting another B6 with a 1.9 engine. That will definitely be my last Audi, at least until the newer models come down in price second hand.

I was considering getting a new engine but having spoke to numerous people it's just not worth it. My car was already on its second engine when I brought it. Both engines lasted around 80k.
 
Frustrated I didn't see this thread before I bought my B7 Avant - its the 2.0tdi 170hp BRD - car is a 2008 model, so tail end of B7 Production, I'm guessing that means I'll be on the later pump, and therefore okay, but the Balancer/Hex Shaft will need inspection/replacement.... which judging by this thread is going to cost me a fair whack?

Talk about buyers remorse...
 
Frustrated I didn't see this thread before I bought my B7 Avant - its the 2.0tdi 170hp BRD - car is a 2008 model, so tail end of B7 Production, I'm guessing that means I'll be on the later pump, and therefore okay, but the Balancer/Hex Shaft will need inspection/replacement.... which judging by this thread is going to cost me a fair whack?

Talk about buyers remorse...

Yep - will need doing – just had mine done for peace of mind and there was obvious wear on the shaft – same car – BRD engine 85K on the clock...
 
Yep - will need doing – just had mine done for peace of mind and there was obvious wear on the shaft – same car – BRD engine 85K on the clock...

How much did that set you back if you don't mind me asking?
 
Between £600- £700. It's a must to get done. I recently got mine done.. I have an 80k B7 2.0tdi FSH. On inspection of the part after it was replaced it was almost at its end of its life..perfect timing..
 
I'd say that's strong figures considering the remanufactured modified balancer shaft and longer 100mm key is just £215 in parts.

Depends on labour rate , price of oil and filter etc and hours quoted.
 
I'd say that's strong figures considering the remanufactured modified balancer shaft and longer 100mm key is just £215 in parts.

Depends on labour rate , price of oil and filter etc and hours quoted.

I actually paid £215.00 parts balance shaft and key.
£447.00 for 5.5hrs labour, sump gasket, sealent, oil, oil filter, sump plug/washer re check on VCDS and re set service schedule.

£662.00 in total, I personally thought that it was about right in comparison to what others said they were charged on the forum. Either way the company I took it to were very thorough and helpful and provided a great service. Even replace a few missing screws and fittings that I had lost etc.. I guess dependant on where in the country you live will also have a reflection on costs. But very happy with what was done so I guess it's money well spent. Confident the old Tug will last another 80k. Lol
 
Oh it's money well spent alright , although some given the info decide not to do it which is complete madness !
 
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Oh it's money well spent alright , although some given the info decide not to do it which is complete madness !

Sadly too true. Some people like to learn the hard way..unfortunately others just get caught out.. Me personally I would look at this for mileage 40k and over, and even then who knows!
 
The best one was a VW Master Tech who said he was comfortable by just switching off when the red, stop , low oil pressure comes up...
 
And we all know how that's going to turn out. Sadly some people are beyond help!
 
Maybe this should be a sticky? Will clear up most of the common questions asked on all the VAG forums (ive been through them all while doing my A4 BLB balancer unit/pump):

I spent some time on ETKA a while ago trying to figure out why some 2.0PD oil pump drives fail and some don't. The BKD, AZV & BMN 2.0 engines (which is what found their way into the 2.0 PD Octavia, A3, Golf, various Seats) used a chain driven oil pump very similar, but not identical, to the old 1.9 130hp PD engine. This never seems to give any problems. I can tell from ETKA these engines don't have a balancer shaft which I think is the key to it - it's the balancer shafts that cause the problems on the 'posher' VAG 2.0 PD diesels eg Passat, A4, Superb. By trying to make the engine more refined for the more expensive models they destroyed it's reliability in the process.

Very briefly, the 2.0 PD differs from the 1.9 in having twin Lanchester balancing shafts which contra-rotate at 2x crank speed. The first engines used a chain drive which was a complete disaster (pictures on this website) and the later engines a gear drive. All 2.0 PD got the geared drive towards the end of 2005.

The problem with the 2.0 PD engine is the drive from the slave balancer shaft to the oil pump, which is a piece of 6 AF hex bar which has inadequate engagement depth with the grooves in the slave shaft. It's the torsional oscillations caused by the balance shafts which destroy the oil pump coupling (the 6mm AF bit of hex) and the chain drive to the balancer shafts before the gear driven systems came out, though these still give problems with the hex key rounding. Think washing machine -> unbalanced load -> keep doing it = new machine.

PSA had no problem at all driving their oil pump from the slave balancer shaft on the bigger HDi engines so it's poor VAG engineering at the bottom of it all - as usual.

As I said earlier, the problem is with lack of concentricity of the drive socket into which the drive rod/hex fits. Since I've started looking at this problem, I've seen three cars where the drive socket is off centre by at least 0.1mm. In engineering terms, this is a massive defect. Since I've starting checking the concentricity, all the drive sockets in the failed units were off centre, but all the replacement balancer units were dead centre and have not led to a repeat failure in the people i have spoken too. Some replacement balancer units have now done 100k+ miles according to some garages.

So, to sum up. You will get this problem at some point if you have a 2.0TDi WITH balancer shafts. If your 2.0TDi does NOT have balancer shafts, you will be ok. If you fit the lastest balancer shaft/ pump assembley from VAG it will more than likely cure the problem for life as they have made the hex longer and centered it all properley.

Dealers do not admit any liability. You will not get any fiscal help with changing for the new balancer/pump unit. The fact that VAG have released and re-released different pumps/shafts/engines etc.. is "purely coincidence", according to Audi customer services! I am voting with my feet and never buying a VAG car ever again, they are not worth the extra money and the customer service is a disgrace. If you have this problem yourself, STOP driving the car. If you havent blown the turbo and your engine is not rattling you may get away with not replacing the lump, just the pump/balancer. If you havent had the problem yet and you do have a balancer shaft engine, I would advise either changing the balacer system now or getting rid of the car. From what i can assertain, CR engines are safe. Anything before that..well, Audi/VAG wont say exactley when they started to fit the units that actualy work properley.....

GOOD LUCK!

N.B. Thanks to all the contributers from across the VAG network and various garages


Hello
So how does one actually know if their 2.0 TDI engine has got a balancer shaft or not ? Can it be known only from engine number or only by physically looking inside the oil pump itself ?
Thanks very much
 
Hello everyone

So how does one actually know if their 2.0 TDI engine has got a balancer shaft or not ? Can it be known only from engine number or only by physically looking inside the oil pump itself ?
Thanks very much
 
Hello everyone

So how does one actually know if their 2.0 TDI engine has got a balancer shaft or not ? Can it be known only from engine number or only by physically looking inside the oil pump itself ?
Thanks very much
 
Auto Trader etc. is packed full of relevant aged VAG 2.0 TDIs with mileages well over 100,000 that have had no such problem at all. A simultaneously thread on this forum as we speak had a chap with 175,000 on the clock – and guess what, no oil pump problem! I rather suspect the problem surrounds a much smaller number of VAG engines – possibly an inferior batch of hex drives.
 
Lol .

So the design is alright then !

Q. What shape bore do you put a piece of hex bar in ?
 
I suppose starting your post with a LOL is your way of suggesting that you are an expert and that anyone who dares to disagree with you is stupid LOL. Some on these oil pump threads are confused and mixing the earlier chain driven drives with the later gear driven drives. So much confusion reigns that some are actually suggesting they go back to older, slower and less economical engines.

What sort of bore for the hex drive shaft? I assume that you are suggesting that the hex drive should be a very tight fit into a bore that has the exact hexagonal dimensions as the shaft? Would you care to share with us how this would: 1) Cope with expansion and contraction with a range of temperatures and 2) allow for oil flow and heat dissipation? Assuming you have a socket set LOL, you will know that if you are placing a socket around the complete circumference of a nut, it does not have to be a mirror copy of the nut in order to 1) grip the nut and 2) apply torque equally around the circumference of the said nut.

The VAG 2.0 TDI engine is probably the most popular VAG diesel engine fitted to millions of engines Worldwide. If we are to accept that the oil pump units are completely rubbish and virtually guaranteed to “blow up” at around 50,000 miles (as you assert so confidently), every VAG garage would be fully booked with a car park full of cars requiring replacement engines. But this ‘aint happening!

As I said, I suspect that there were a relatively small number of faulty items.
 
I recon you work for VAG answering the phone with denial .

Why then did VAG later increase by over double the contact length of the hex key in the balancer shaft keyway of which there are no reported failures ?

77 mm has just 15mm contact length , oem 100mm has 35 mm , aftermarket balancer shaft 100mm has 38-40 mm .

In Poland they take a slightly different route by oversizing the 77mm key ,


56578b3d9a0f944c9bc0a607de777387


It all works , anything to increase the contact length or surface area .


The chain driven where the tensioner can fail are also 77mm hex key oil pump drive so are double trouble like a BLB , but these are early 2.0 tdi found in A4 B7 and A6 C6 .


audibalshaftmag.jpg
 
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Ahh an article by Ben Williamson. Suggest you Google “Ben Williamson Audi” or “Ben Williamson, AV performance, Burton on Trent” before putting an article out purporting to be an authoritative view. :cower: Personally, I prefer to follow the people at VAG. As for the Polish "unbalanced" version – what can I say :sadlike:
 
You take the word of cover up VAG... WTF....

As for the Polish version that offers a 4 year warranty , we will see as a BKP I know of was recently fitted with it .
 
The VAG 2.0 TDI engine is probably the most popular VAG diesel engine fitted to millions of engines Worldwide. If we are to accept that the oil pump units are completely rubbish and virtually guaranteed to “blow up” at around 50,000 miles (as you assert so confidently), every VAG garage would be fully booked with a car park full of cars requiring replacement engines. But this ‘aint happening!

As I said, I suspect that there were a relatively small number of faulty items.


Small , maybe , but extremely inconvenient....

Not two weeks after your Ostrich antics .

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/oil-pump-failure.302766/#post-2886894
 
There are over 800 A3 2.0 TDIs for sale on Auto trader today in the relevant age category 2005-2010. Nearly all have mileage recorded over 100,000 miles with many near 200,000. That of course doesn’t include the similar engines in Audi A4s, A5s, A6, and TTs – plus of course there will be Skoda, Seat and the massive VW brand. In comparison, how many have mentioned actual failure (not fear of failure) in this thread? One needs to avoid making hysterical generalisations – the internet is terrible for this – one only has to look at Porsche forums talking about the IMS bearing.

There are people who have suffered failure who naturally have my sympathy, but I do not know the service history of these cars, how they have been treated or whether they have been modified/remapped. I suspect that many remaps are conducted nowadays with owners never giving a second thought to extra cooling etc. As I said before, I suspect there were certain batches of hex drives which are to blame – there can be many variables in the “hardening” process and as mentioned on other, similar threads certain batches were actually hollow.
 
Had a kit 9 from KMB fitted on Monday £595 all in. Enjoying the peace of mind. My B7 A4 is on 105000 miles and apparently the shaft wasn't too bad but mine is a 2008 late B7 so maybe had a modified shaft from factory?
 
Was it a 77mm ?

Depends what you call not bad as it only takes 0.5mm of wear to fail .
 
Hello

I am new here and I have an A6 2007 BRE with 161Kmiles. I went to local Audi today and they printed out my oil pump details (ETKA). It says mine fitted with 100mm hex (03G 115 281E) . Is that possible? Do I need to worry about pump failure in this case?

thanks in advance
 
Hello

I am new here and I have an A6 2007 BRE with 161Kmiles. I went to local Audi today and they printed out my oil pump details (ETKA). It says mine fitted with 100mm hex (03G 115 281E) . Is that possible? Do I need to worry about pump failure in this case?

thanks in advance

I have it on good authority that the last of the 77mm key oil pump modules were built on 19.11.2009 which means that on or around the start of 2010 they were no longer fitted. However, this does not mean that there was not some “overlap” with the 100mm redesigned unit being fitted to cars, on certain production lines, before that. Audi should be able to check what was originally fitted to your car by taking the VIN number – if that is what they have done, you have to accept what they confirm unless you want to strip your sump and independently examine. Your car appears to have done 160k miles with no problem in this area – people who have suffered the shaft failure generally claim it occurs well before 100k miles.
 
I have it on good authority that the last of the 77mm key oil pump modules were built on 19.11.2009 which means that on or around the start of 2010 they were no longer fitted. However, this does not mean that there was not some “overlap” with the 100mm redesigned unit being fitted to cars, on certain production lines, before that. Audi should be able to check what was originally fitted to your car by taking the VIN number – if that is what they have done, you have to accept what they confirm unless you want to strip your sump and independently examine. Your car appears to have done 160k miles with no problem in this area – people who have suffered the shaft failure generally claim it occurs well before 100k miles.

Hi

Thanks for quick reply. This is what audi gave me today. The VIN number is correct for my car.

AudiOilPump
 
There is a description on the top which says (Oil pump,Oil dipstick,Balancer shaft for modified vehicle) I am not sure what they are meaning.
 
As far as I am aware, ETKA is just the parts catalogue. This would mean that if you wanted to buy the current parts for your car, the parts listed in the catalogue are those that are currently available. I do not understand it to mean that it is a confirmatory list of the original parts actually fitted to your car. The people on the parts counter are not always the brightest buttons in the box and I would go back and question them further along the lines of confirming what is actually fitted to your car. If the little firms that fit alternative parts can do this, I’m sure that the mighty VAG can.
 
Hi Guy's,

I'm new here, i'm on quite a few car forums. I reading this thread before i registered and said i have to join to find out more. I have a few concerns myself (i don't own an Audi). But i hope you can help me anyway. That said however i was looking into buying a vw Passat (130,140 or 170bhp) or one in particular NE reg, (i'm in the SE). The Passat in question is a 2010 2.0 tdi 170bhp with just under 180k miles under it's belt, seller states it has warranted Uk motorway miles. It is a full HPI / Cartell cleared, recent new dual flywheel kit done and it kind of fits budget under €6k including VRT if the seller will take a little less for it. For a 2010 car it's a lot of miles imo. I will consider 09 minimum (nct wise 2 years for 10 year old and younger cars). Me being me i done a myvehicle.ie check. And that passat's engine code is CBB followed by numbers rather then CBBB?, so the C meaning its Common Rail rather then PD.

Reason for the change is my TB snapped two day's before i was going to change it - 00 Avensis 2.0td 90bhp 195/6k on the clock (running 100% up until then), so now i'm looking for a few more extra ponies (late 2008+ equals cheaper motor tax) so 2010 cheaper motor tax and insurance) than my current Avensis which will be rebuilt in the future. So i chose to go the VW route (my dad has a 99 1.9tdi Passat estate) and (my friend and colleague has a 08/09 1.9tdi passat 115bhp.) So giving the extra ponies available from 130-170bhp i opted for that. And being into cars, bikes etc i'm doing my research into the problems which brought me to other forums including here.

My question is giving the previous posts i have read on here, does this Passat have the same sh#tty oil pump? And DPF issues?

Also give the above, should i entertain it or just walk before i'm need deep? I can't afford to buy this car, then need to replace potential injectors or oil pump as i'll be right back to square one. Giving we have a little lad and myself and my better half are currently sharing my Dad's car (which is not feasible) and we miss our freedom not having our own car.

Apologies for the above, i know it's long winded. I just want to give an insight to my current sitution and potential concerns for the potential car(s).

Cheers for reading and all help greatly appreciated. Any questions just shout.

Jon.
 
I can't understand why they didn't come up with a different stronger design instead of the hexagonal design and same with the chain sprocket, they could have came up with slightly different design to stop the teeth on the sprocket from wasting away and pump from failing. An idea of ''lets create and design a part that will be sure to fail that will make us extra money'' it seems.
 
I agree Gazwould,

Can anyone help on my first (big) post?

Cheers.
 
Hi, first post to forum. My cars ( A6 ) done 100500 miles on an ( 2L TDI ) 09 plate.
Had the car from 20k miles and decided to keep this one and maintain it long term. Had no problems so far.

Anyhow, reading lots about replacing the balance shaft and hex key with a remanufactured kit. I've been advised mine has the 77mm key and will need doing.

I have a couple of questions about the gear driven oil unit. I believe these spin at twice engine speed. So is that veriable speed? I.e. If engine revs are at 2k then the unit spins at 4K? And then if engine spins at 4K then it would be 8k?
Would that explain possibly why some peoples hex shafts have been worm round and others have been in better condition. Would oil temp and high engine revs have an effect on wear of the hex shaft?

Apologies for the essay!!