S3 power loss - feels like lack of fuel - usually on WOT at around 5500 - 6000 RPM

badger5 said:
excessive oil being breathed int
Click to expand...

Oily intake enough to get knock?
My whole system is full of oil, from airfilter(breather) all the way to intake is bathing in oil probably from full breather/pcv or whatever you call it. But I do simply now too little about it to fix it or even check it at the moment.

And I also use vpower and have all the time, cars is mapped to 98 octane.

I get knock even on 0,5 bar boost (actuator pressure). Have it set to 1,1 bar which is according to the map.
 
Oil will reduce fuels octane rating and promote knock...

<tuffty/>
 
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Solberg said:
Oily intake enough to get knock?
My whole system is full of oil, from airfilter(breather) all the way to intake is bathing in oil probably from full breather/pcv or whatever you call it. But I do simply now too little about it to fix it or even check it at the moment.

And I also use vpower and have all the time, cars is mapped to 98 octane.

I get knock even on 0,5 bar boost (actuator pressure). Have it set to 1,1 bar which is according to the map.
Click to expand...
yes.
if its breathing a lot of oil down its intake it will promote det by reducing the fuels effective octane

its a petrol engine not a derv
 
okay so took out old plugs and replaced with BKR7E gapped to 0.7mm (properly)

The 1st plug looked different to the others almost burnt cylinder 2 less so and 3 and 4 looked like new, as expected for plugs only 2K old. They were all still easily 0.8 not sure that makes a massive difference, but I clearly gapped them badly.

I have put the more restrictive S2000 paper filter back on
checked the catch can - this is totally empty meaning it's not collected anything at all in the 6 months its been fitted
checked inside the throttle body pre-butterfly and there was a droplet of oil gathered at the bottom inside, I will look inside the TIP and the PUK to see if there is some oil gathered. Can the puk be fitted anyway up? as mine is plugged straight into the TIP.

The car feels perfect no misfiring or hesitation although not gone over 4500 / 5000 rpm, but I will run it easy for a month or so to see if it stays healthy, sort out the catch can with some form of baffle to collect the oil or replace it with a decent one.

Maybe this was doing it after the downpipe fitment but with the failing driveshafts, there was some confusion?

Assuming nothing horrific occurs during it's testing - FMIC next and then a safe map to make sure the fueling is correct.
 
The paper filter certainly makes a difference power wise compared to the fabric cosworth filter - although the car feels quite smooth and still (fingers crossed) no hic-ups - I have followed a relatively fast car from a junction changing up at 5500 with no issues.

I think I will just keep it running cool, until I sort out the catch can baffle and FMIC. money money money
 
At least you're making progress mate,keep believing.
 
audi upgrades
so what about this theory (so far no misfires but still not WOT > 5500RPM)

Since I have changed the fuel pump, new BKR7E plugs with 0.7mm gap (replaced the coil pack on the single error I had for a misfire) and put back the paper S2000 filter. my average MPG has gone from 25.5 to 24.2 - when I first got the car it was 24.5 - but had been improving for some unknown reason to me, also I have not had the P0420 Cat Threshold exceeded again yet either

is it possible that the fuel pump was not delivering the full fuel - causing the car to run lean - purely from lack of fuel

the lean running meant
1. my MPG was actually improved
2. but was running hotter eg the burnt spark plug in cylinder 1 less so in cylinder 2 and not in 3 or 4?
3. maybe causing the CAT fault under certain conditions?

I will continue to run in this setup for a few hundred miles - then put back the better air filter - I will say the car although smooth and healthy doesn't feel as aggressive as with the fabric filter (maybe that is just in my head).
 
Head in the sand
Captured him at the beach today.

:whistle2:
 
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lol - I can only log with a registered version of VCDS - I am waiting for the £ to be 2$'s again like in the 70's

won't I blow the car up logging it - if it has a fault? I am scared of even considering a map as I have seen the abuse on youtube they get on a dyno, and there is always the same guy walking slowly away when it goes wrong.

Okay I will get an early Christmas present next month and do this spreadsheet business.
 
I still belive its a map thing.

Ive changed n75, lambda sensor, cleaned maf, did throttle body alignment TBA, tried brand new coils, plugs look fine, new fuel pump, new fuelfilter, new air filter, new fuel pressure regulator, several checks in VCDS no faults related, heck even tried the strongest octane "booster" i could find and put it in only a quarter full tank. Still I have the problem, missfire/knock whatever it is.


However, the problem has changed large, before I would get missfire INSTANT on 5200 rpm ish, all times I boosted. Then it started missfire on higher rpm. Now I dont have missfire at all til redline sometimes, but when I get them they tend to appear on around 6500rpm, just before redline.

Tried tho doing a 0-100, and just as I got in second I got heavy missfire on low rpm so bad my car went into limp mode instantly. Restarted the car and went off, drove safley, and started pushing it more and more just to see if I would get missfire again, but I dont think I did. This problem is very on and off, almoust like a chip is come loose from its soldering in the brain if you feel me?



Anyways, my car is getting stored tomorrow for winters nest, I will during the winter change ALL pipes possible to find. That is pressure pipes, oil pipes, vacuum pipes, cooling pipes and breather system over a IE catch tank, badger5 tip and so on, then I will see how it will react, only other I could think of is that when i read off my fuel pressure on the gauge I installed before the fuel rail my idle pressure varies between 2,3-2,6 bars.... tiny bit low eh?



Edit: Another thing Ive been thinking some on is the MAP sensor (not MAF), could this cause missfire? I mean a faulty one. When I go WOT and let SLIGHTLY of my throttle cars jerks like a donkey letting boost out the DV like mad, touftouftouf.
 
Last edited:
Stuart B said:
lol - I can only log with a registered version of VCDS - I am waiting for the £ to be 2$'s again like in the 70's

won't I blow the car up logging it - if it has a fault? I am scared of even considering a map as I have seen the abuse on youtube they get on a dyno, and there is always the same guy walking slowly away when it goes wrong.

Okay I will get an early Christmas present next month and do this spreadsheet business.
Click to expand...
get someone to keep an eye on it while logging... if the numbers look bad back out the run... thats how proper dynos do it ;)

<tuffty/>
 
still not logged it

stunning.............

stop making excuses.. log the fecking thing

VCDS vs ££ to buy full package vs damaged engine >££ way more

alternatively.. Take it to someone to log!
alternatively.. get elm337 obd bluetooth dongle + torque pro ap on android and log fuel adaption using that the , (IF) you really, really, really can't in fact afford (or too tight) to purchase full fat vcds. Its a cheaper way to read lambda's/afrs
 
oh that's interesting I will look at the Android Torque option initially. I will remember to take my glasses with me - that an excellent start I have done previous graphs on that but only really for the boost (which we know is nonsense) and the Wheel Torque and Wheel BHP (which only works on a straight flat road and the correct weight in the profile)

my main issue with VCDS is I change my laptop every couple of years - which means the license will go - or I will need to keep a dedicated laptop hanging around just for this.

Thanks again - I wont procrastinate about this without any real evidence of anything now.
 
Can't you the full version on any laptop? I know you have to pay $99 to transfer ownership if buying a second hand one but thought cable would work in any number of laptops with Ross tech installed
This was taken from another website

"As others have confirmed, no prob. Install the software on as many different PC's as you'd like. Tech support is limited to the original purchaser but the software itself should work fine."
 
Last edited:
Stuart B said:
oh that's interesting I will look at the Android Torque option initially. I will remember to take my glasses with me - that an excellent start I have done previous graphs on that but only really for the boost (which we know is nonsense) and the Wheel Torque and Wheel BHP (which only works on a straight flat road and the correct weight in the profile)

my main issue with VCDS is I change my laptop every couple of years - which means the license will go - or I will need to keep a dedicated laptop hanging around just for this.

Thanks again - I wont procrastinate about this without any real evidence of anything now.
Click to expand...

VCDS has a licence which is assigned to the lead, you can only use the genuine lead with the genuine software otherwise it will be automatically bricked and you have to purchase a new lead. So as long as you use the genuine software with the genuine lead on any computer it will work fine, just don't use a chinese lead with the genuine software or vice versa.
Why don't you look at the VCDS Map and give someone a drink to log some stuff for you, if you can't afford the cable itself?

You seemed to of thrown money at it hoping to fix it without knowing at all what the problem is, probably more than the lead itself is!
 
Stuart B said:
Thanks again - I wont procrastinate about this without any real evidence of anything now.
Click to expand...

Where are you based Stuart?

These guys may be a bit 'sweet & sour' sometimes but at the end of the day everyone's trying to achieve the same goal,keeping as many S3 8L's on the road.

At least if they know whereabouts you are generally,perhaps someone will be able to help,or know of someone,who could help with some logging.

Let's hope so :yes:
 
Try the VCDS map...
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/forums/vcds-formerly-vag-com-forum.27/

Stuart B said:
my main issue with VCDS is I change my laptop every couple of years - which means the license will go - or I will need to keep a dedicated laptop hanging around just for this.
Click to expand...

As mentioned above the genuine cable is essentially a software dongle (for those that can remember the days when those were a 'thing' :) )... this means the license moves with the cable not the laptop... you can essentially use the cable on any machine with VCDS installed on it...

VCDS Lite can be registered more cheaply but is tied to the machine its registered to... it would appear that Ross-Tech will allow you to move the license once to another machine (http://www.ross-tech.com/vca/Lite-form.php) once so this may not work so well for you...

Assuming that you don't replace your laptop because the old one is broken then there is no reason why you couldn't just use the old machine just for VCDS but in all honesty if you plan to keep the car for any amount of time then an investment in the genuine cable will be worth while..

HEX-CAN leads will not only do K-Line based cars like the 8L but all the modern CANBUS VAG cars too so if you upgrade to a newer VAG car you can still use it... it will also do generic OBDII so you can scan most other makes of car in a basic capacity too...

You can sell the cable on if you no longer have a use for it to re-coup some of your investment, the cable will continue to be usable for anyone you sell it too but they won't get registered user support... (http://store.ross-tech.com/shop/VUDOT.html)

Full VCDS can be bought from Nigel (NHN) here...
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/vcds-supplier.72359/

<tuffty/>
 
the £250 version is linked to the cable I am looking at the mega cheap $99 version , which is a once install only - although tuffty has suggested they allow one licence relocation?

I will get it I know its the right thing to do just got a lot on my plate at the moment so will drive it like a 900cc fiat cinqecento until I get it sorted.

:)
 
Aren't you limited to what you can do on the $99 version. Can you do data logging of the measuring block you need with that one? Can only measure blocks 1-25 and not basic measures or blocks 26-255 the website says so might be no use if it's not blocks 1-25 you need
 
Last edited:
Tj 0785 said:
Aren't you limited to what you can do on the $99 version. Can you do data logging of the measuring block you need with that one? Can only measure blocks 1-25 and not basic measures or blocks 26-255 the website says so might be no use if it's not blocks 1-25 you need
Click to expand...
Correct.

Limitations of VCDS-Lite compared to VCDS even if Fully Registered:
No Generic OBD-II
Won't work with CAN-Bus vehicles
Fewer fault code definitions and label files
No built-in Activation (you'll be limited to a single PC)
No Advanced Measuring Blocks
No Acceleration Measurement

As stated by Ross-Tech.
 
For the Love of God, use the VCDS map and give someone some beer tokens to log it for you, or buy the full version.
They are worth their weight in Gold when you own one of these cars!
 
scotty_24 said:
For the Love of God, use the VCDS map and give someone some beer tokens to log it for you, or buy the full version.
They are worth their weight in Gold when you own one of these cars!
Click to expand...


I think Stuart is waiting for page 3 of this thread to come out... building the tension a bit and then will announce he has bought VCDS and solved the mystery... my money is Mr White with the candlestick in the library :)

<tuffty/>
 
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...although the way things are going don't rule out a plot twist ;)

<tuffty/>
 
Okay so ran the "track plugin" for Android Torque an managed to capture the following readings its not quite a nice set of line charts but I have taken some screenshots of basic cruising, near end of acceleration and rolling with no gas after accelerating.

As a recap I was getting a bit of a misfire at high revs (only managed to get an error with N75 disconnected and holding the gas through the misfire)

changed fuel pump,
new correctly gaps BKR7E plugs (did replace the coil on cylinder 1 - but don't think this was the problem) - previous plugs were not gapped correctly to 0.7 - I thought they were but I rechecked them and they were 0.8 still. only when these were changed did the hiccup cease.
put the paper S2000 filter on instead of the Cosworth S2000 filter (will retry the test with this another day).

The basic readings are AFR / Bank 1 o2 / Revs / MAF / Air Intake Temp (Torque, HP and Boost but they are nonsense - I get boost readings of 26 psi or even higher but when I joined a real gauge it goes up to 20PSI and peta's off to 15PSI - unless in 6th gear where it held 20PSI to the speed limit and a little more)

From watching the video of all the dials (I think there is a delay with some of the readings too) and using pause I can see that

  • The AFR is usually 14.7 on idle / cruising and the Lamda is 1.0 Air Intake around between 18-24
  • towards the end of hard acceleration AFR goes down to as low as 11.8 and Lamda 0.8 Air Intake goes to a maximum of 27
  • after acceleration and basically engine braking AFR goes up to 29 Lamda 2.0 Air Intake returns to 18-24 <-- is this normal - no gas and high negative pressure from the vacuum?

The biggest MAF reading I got was 189 which is comparable to the previous readings, the Cosworth Filter goes to 194, The car was mapped and dyno'd to 243 by a previous owner but I have changed TIP, Air Filter and Downpipe, 194 / 0.8 is about 242.5 ?

I had no hiccups on the test run (and I have not since making the above changes) - I didn't take it to the red line as it makes a racket after 6K

I also used the knock sensor plugin for Android Torque and it said "no detonations".

According to the Ross-Tech http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Fuel_Trim_Info - This seems okay (apart from I don't see anything about the run down AFR and Lamda expectancies)

I know there are a load of dials which are not functioning, but I wasn't sure which ones would work - I don't seem to be able to get fuel pressure only litres per minute or gallons per hour.



Screenshot 20161102 185514

Ran "Test again" several times with same result

Screenshot 20161102 212536

Lowest AFR and O2 Lamda Readings


Screenshot 20161102 212020

Highest AFR and O2 Readings with no gas pedal after accelerating.


Screenshot 20161102 212510


you can see in the above that AFR and O2S1 are normal but as the revs get higher they reduced down to 12 and 0.8/0.9


I assume this is enough details - I might buy the multi axis line chart plug-in as the inbuilt version is rubbish unless the figures are all similar?

Thanks
 
Stuart B said:
after acceleration and basically engine braking AFR goes up to 29 Lamda 2.0 Air Intake returns to 18-24 <-- is this normal - no gas and high negative pressure from the vacuum?
Click to expand...

Yes... throttle plate is shut causing high vacuum and injectors/ignition turned off to save fuel

Stuart B said:
I don't seem to be able to get fuel pressure only litres per minute or gallons per hour.
Click to expand...

No fuel pressure sensors on a 1.8t

Stuart B said:
(I think there is a delay with some of the readings too)
Click to expand...

Inherent due to bluetooth data connection... laggy++

<tuffty/>
 
what is'nt mentioned is the lambda adjust during wot... indicating how much compensation lambda is having to make to maintain target afr request.the request is ok as you've posted. if the pump or whatever is struggling to maintain it, then i would expect to see lambda trim go very +ve numbers, which would indicate fuel pressure is lacking.
maf readings if the dyno you had is correct correlate ok, so base fuel calc should be ok
 
Thanks for the input.

So I will retest with the freer following filter - I haven't logged holding the high revs yet either - so will try and do that to see whether anything else changes.
 
ha ha ha - so cylinder 1 has a misfire again. driving along at 60 mph for about 5 miles after a dual carriageway at 70-80 for about 8 miles.

only change was I put my foot down in 6th instead of 4th when at a 30mph junction (doubt that caused the issue) - strange I did a first (although not flat out) logged run using the Cosworth fabric filter this morning.

have ordered a new FPR - and may check the injector for cylinder 1 - otherwise head maybe? (I wish I kept the healthy 3 spark plugs I took out 1000 miles ago) I wonder whether the BKR7E are not up to it on less than perfect engines those other super plus 4 plugs (although frowned upon) did 8000 miles without a misfire or I suppose the brand new coil I put on cylinder 1 was just bad, I still have the working one I took off.
 
Weird... the coilpack on number 1 cylinder had popped up? - also quite low on oil :(

I feel this car is nearing it's end.
 
Aaah leaking oil somewhere?

Dont give up just yet mite :D Why dont you get it to someone who can run it on a dyno and check things?
 
I am going to put a bit of oil in and engine flush - its been 4000 miles since its last oil change anyway, just never had oil so low before - surprised it made it back from the last journey. I expect the lack of oil vibrated up the coil - maybe because it was new?

It always leaks a little oil, needs a new sump really as the plug doesn't fully torque up so has some gasket seal wiped over the threads I have a tissues worth of spray over the front of the cam cover and a few droplets running down the back of the engine from the sump seal I suppose.
 
Once again... Crossing fingers ☺

For a laugh I have put in a stage 2 ecu, I think I expected fireworks but have a simple hobbit sized cider, Have a new fpr delivered on Monday, will put in momentum on Tuesday and do a real run. AIT during driving only went to 25, although was 40 whilst parked up and running? It does feel like it's running richer if that's possible to feel, might just be there right amount of oil in the engine?

Screenshot 20161126 152654
 
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